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How to pass the sniffer?
Hey Guys,
I finally got my LX driveable again (The Ksport's are nice, but even though I extended them a bit before mounting them, I'm rolling slammed on the ground.)
The 13"wheels actually fit (barely) over the SE-I rear discs I put in, but the left wheel dings the edge of the splash guard if I go over a bump too hard :(
Anyways, I got out to the sniffer 10 days before my final notice expires, and I failed miserably. I get that it's too rich, but I'm wondering what kind of suggestions on what I can try to do to get it to pass?
It's a 38/38 DGES Weber; I have 91 E0 in the tank.
Results:
2500 RPM Test
O2: 0.3
CO(%): less than or equal: Standard: 1.20, Test: 5.62
HC (PPM): (less than or equal): Standard: 220, Test: 332
Dilution (Co + CO2(%)) Standard: 6.0, Test: 16.61
Idle Test
O2: 0.1
CO(%): less than or equal: Standard: 1.20, Test: 4.09
HC (PPM): (less than or equal): Standard: 220, Test: 559
Dilution (Co + CO2(%)) Standard: 6.0, Test: 16.19
What I'm not sure of, is whether or not I'm lean on the idle, and rich at "pseudo-load" or... idk what it means (Help) T.T
The guy at the station said I also had a timing problem if he had to say anything
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Ok, so I went ahead and used the search feature :o
What I get from that, and a good post by smufguy, is that:
A. I shouldn't have babied it on the way there because the cat's still cold (Mine's the original too, that probably doesnt help)
B. Throw in some "Pass emissions" fuel additive + 2x STP Gas treatment (methanol) to my fuel to burn alcohol (maybe just a few gallons of E85 would be better?)
C. Turn my 150 mains back to the 145 mains I got with it from the carb store I got it from, where I think they actually bothered to give me the right jets for where I'm living in the first place... -_-'
But, does retarding my timing actually help? (aside from keeping me from blowing a hole in the block)
The guy doing the smog check didn't give me any flak for not having a stock carb, no egr, or anything
I also read Dr_Snooz'z thread for more info and it looks great, I'm seriously thinking of getting a wideband to help with tuning, but it looks like all of those sensors basically log data while you drive, but then I gotta go back, read it, and figure out what to do from there, right?
Wouldn't it be better to have one that tells you your A/F mixture in Real-Time?
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Gave up and got an AEM Wideband with the LSU4.9 Sensor on it.
Where do you guys mount yours? I was hoping it would fit in the bung on the manifold where the old O2 sensor is...
Also, do you adjust the A/F mixtures after you have base Timing set? (Meaning, timing first, then mixture)
Or are you supposed to adjust mixture first, then timing? (And does doing one before the other really affect it?)
Since I only need to pass what seems to be a very generous meter limit, (compared to some of the California limits I've seen posted, 1.2 seems to be almost 10x the .15 or so they require) I'm guessing I can just tune to a lean 15.0 or 15.5 @ idle & @ 2500 rpm?
Assuming I get that right, does it really matter what's in the tank or the oil pan? I read that old oil get's your HC counts higher, but I'm not getting how it makes any difference unless you're burning oil that your rings aren't taking off the cylinder wall...??? (Or is this the crap that comes in through PCV valve and back into engine, and combusts - sending all that crap out to the sniffer?)
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
I'm non emissions here in Washington St. So I Don't know about any of that stuff, sorry. I am however jealous of your Ksports lol. Been thinking about putting a set on my 86 cord but the $1000+ price tag is kinda high for me at this time. Is your car still slamed or where you able to get it up some? A picture of your car would be sweet, that way I would have an idea what mine would look like running them. Hope you get some help on the sniff test soon.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Congrats, I can't believe we even have emissions here considering how useless they are.. I mean, I can understand the whole idea of clean air, I love clean air... but even with my 11.2 AFR when cruising, it doesn't smell out the pipe too bad.. The guys with those relics and their bad AFR can just run around polluting anyways... =[
Anyways, I got my AFR gauge installed, as well as a vacuum gauge, and I'm stuck.
With the jets I had in it, I had 12.2 AFR at idle, and 11.2 @ 2500 rpm.
I put in my original small main jets and with a bit of tweaking to the mixture screws, I managed to get idle up to 13.8, but as soon as you crack open the throttle and get to 2500, it goes back to 11.8-12.1 AFR.
I don't have anything less than a size 50 idle jets, and 2500 RPM in my idea is still on the idle jets, right?
If it helps, my engine pulls 22-24 inHg of vacuum at idle, for some reason it constantly bounces between 22 & 24, but Idk if I should think "vacuum problem" or not since it's a digital gauge; idk what the actual mechanical needle fluctuations should be =[
I tried contacting some carburetor shops in my area for help with tuning it, but either I got ignored or they never got my calls/messages.
Is there a different jetting kit I can try to lean it out anymore? Or am I looking at this the wrong way, and need to drop in some huge air correctors?? (Dunno how that will solve the overly-rich idle jet problem though)
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2ndTimeHondaOwner
I'm non emissions here in Washington St. So I Don't know about any of that stuff, sorry. I am however jealous of your Ksports lol. Been thinking about putting a set on my 86 cord but the $1000+ price tag is kinda high for me at this time. Is your car still slamed or where you able to get it up some? A picture of your car would be sweet, that way I would have an idea what mine would look like running them. Hope you get some help on the sniff test soon.
I still have it down since I didn't get the rest of my wheels yet. I was going to adjust it then. I can post some pics of it here once I get it done. If you don't like a low or hard ride though, I'm thinking it may actually be better to go with new stock struts if you can still get them somewhere.
The only reason I say that is that the ksports have extenders on them so you can screw out the part where they join to your suspension, on the bottom of the strut. I extended both of mine about 45% of the travel they can go (since i was worried about them being not strong enough extended past that point). Then I left the spring more or less uncompressed, and lowered the car onto the stock wheels. It's fine, and I still have fender gap there, but its low...
Even if I raise it up another .75-1", I'll just be compressing the moving the spring up and compressing it, reducing the length of travel that the shock moves (which is kind of bad). This will also make the ride even more stiffer...
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4 Attachment(s)
Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2ndTimeHondaOwner
A picture of your car would be sweet.
Here's how it looks like right now on the stock 13"wheels. The rear left wheel looks funky cause it's got a geo-metro size small tire on it (170/65/13).
The air chuck in the last pic is 2.5" tall
Attachment 6829
Attachment 6830
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Ok, so an update on the AFR tuning.
Based off of a post cygnus put into the jet sizes thread, I managed to get my idle AFR tuned up to ~15.0 +/- 0.4.
I also managed to solve my problem preventing me from getting into the redline... Sucker screams right up to the rev limiter once again! it's actually incredibly deafening... :jaw:
That, and it was pretty much pouring water like crazy out the back.. and smoking... and then my oil pan started leaking... and I had blue smoke coming out from the engine bay when it hit the exhaust pipe :inout:
Anyways, I don't think I'm out of the woods yet.
Idle -> 900 rpm, is really rough, since I replaced the motor mounts with Napa rubber mounts, the (tightly screwed on) license plate flaps around and rattle like one of those "audio-phile" VW jetta's with 415's in the trunk... T.T
I've got 50's in for the idle jets, the mixture screws are turned out 0.6 turns on both sides. The throttle stop screw is barely open, maybe 1/8th of a turn in. If I can pass the sniffer with this I'll be happy then I'll open it back up to normal..
The 2500rpm though is still bad. As soon as I open the throttle and let the transition holes start flowing, it goes rich, 1k -1.8k rpm is around 13.5, gets worse as soon as I cross 2k rpm: from there to about 3.5k rpm, AFR is only 12.4->12.2
As soon as I climb up into the 3.5k rpm all the way to 7.5k it's a nice even 13.5->13.8 AFR. I'm using 145 mains and 210 air correctors. I'm happy with this AFR, and I don't want to go any leaner in the high end.
Therefore, my new question: I saw cygnus had the opposite problem I have, his was really lean on the idle circuit, since his mains were coming in "too late". I take it since mine is super rich as soon as I open the transition circuit, and get richer until the mains take over, that my float level is too high? I noticed since I had the hat off a few times, that the fuel level in the bowl was actually the highest I have ever seen it, about half the bowl was filled... I assumed since the float adjustment was glued shut with some blue paint (hopefully not loctite) that it was adjusted to the correct level by the factory.
I will take it to the test station again, and see what i get this time, but if I still fail I'm going to have to mess with this (I really don't want to)..
Do you guys have any suggestions? Also, if I use that "guaranteed to pass" walmart fuel additive, is that going to lean out my fuel like hell, and I'm going to screw myself up by using that before I go?
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
I don't really know Webers, but on any normal carb, the secondary bowl opens up at higher rpms. You'll want to change jets there if you haven't already.
Edelbrock sends out an excellent booklet with their new carbs that outlines how a carb works and how to tune it properly. I recommend reading it and spending some quality time tuning your carb properly. That will give you good drivability, reduced service costs AND passing marks on the smog test.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...404_manual.pdf
You don't really need the A/F meter, though it helps. You want to pay more attention to how the car runs. Basically, if you are too lean, you'll get lean misfire. If you're too rich, you'll smell fresh gas all the time and it will make you sick. Keep tuning until all is well. It took me a few months to dial in my truck, but it was well worth it.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Sounds like mains and air correctors are pretty good. If anything I would say you need to go down a step on the idle jets. This will require backing out the idle screws a little to get the idle mixture back where it needs to be. And actually I would shoot for 14.5 on the idle. 15 is great if you can get away with it but I've found that the idle is smoother when it's a little rich. Since you're trying to pass emissions it will be a delicate balance.
It would be a good idea to check the float level but I wouldn't mess with it unless it's way off or you have no other options. The float level affects everything else so it's usually best to set it first and then leave it.
For fuel additives, adding ethanol mostly just dilutes the fuel and makes it run leaner. You could try adding ethanol if you can't get the carb tuned any leaner, although it shouldn't be necessary.
For the timing, the factory setting should be good, but many people with Webers will advance it by a few degrees to get more peppy throttle response. Advancing the timing will also help if you're trying to run a really lean mixture. I wouldn't add any more than maybe 5 degrees though.
C|
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Hi Dr_Snooz, thanks for the link. I know it's not weber, but I've been looking for a good read to confirm a few things on my mind.
Cygnus, I went ahead and checked my float today, but I've got bad news... So according to some racetep images, as well as a lot of agreed up on numbers, the brass floats should have 41mm from the metal gasket flange to the "top"of the floats, when they are resting against the ball in the bottom of the float needle, without actually compressing it. The plastic-float setup should have 35mm. Both should open up to 51mm full travel when open all the way. The needle valve itself should only travel 2mm when going from closed to fully open.
If I take this accepted literature, then I'm screwed. With my plastic floats completely compressed against the needle valve, and unable to go down any further without forcing them, I'm at 35mm. If I measure it from the point where the tab contacts the ball without pushing it in, I'm at 41mm (must've been a friday assembly :omg: ). The full travel of the float is 47mm, but the needle valve itself only opens 2mm, so I'm cool with that.
When I look at the fuel level after the car's been sitting on level ground in the garage, it's about 3-5mm under the start of the ramp in the far wall of the bowl, and the fuel is maybe a hair over the little pin sitting in the giant-ish valve/pump thing in the center of the bowl.
Basically, I don't think I could possibly lean this out anymore than it already is, at least by modifying the fuel level.
Out of curiousity, will this cause me driveability problems with such a low fuel level? I've read that the jeep guys usually lower the fuel level in the float when off-roading to prevent leaning the car out if the bowl get's tilted severly/fuel bouncing around on the rough road... but then when I looked at the racetep site, I was reading that a low fuel level will cause fuel starvation in cornering (dunno if this only applied to severe track-like cornering?).
That site also says "DO NOT hook up vac advance to manifold vac, this is only good if you're trying to pass smog" and they go on to say that for economy/hp it would be better off to just unplug the hose, seal the vac leak, and manually advance the distributor to like 15-20 degrees (or in our case, it might be just full adv. we can get on this thing). Is this true? I know somebody on here that was saying they did that and were getting 38mpg, but I had hard time believing...
I put my order in for a pair of 40 & 45 idles, 40's the smallest ones they've got, so if that's not enough I'll have to go even lower on the mains (135 or 140...) I'd be scared to go anywhere into the main circuit at that point.. just a nice easy drive to the station, do the test, and come back then re-jet it again.
I'm actually really loving the simplicity of this thing though... taking the hat off feels like a stupid pain but it goes pretty quick. I bet that once I know what jets to use for what situation (testing vs reg driving), then I'll probably be able to re-jet the thing in about as much time as it normally takes to just get the factory air cleaner off the keihin =]
Thanks for the replies!!
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
If a perfect AFR for this (kind of easy) test doesn't pass, then I'l probably go EFI too.
There's an 87 lx-i for sale near me, owner says the engine is "muffed" and I think I could grab it for under $500, then do the conversion...
But I don't really wanna (I'm afraid to destroy the dash considering the age), and I'm not even sure what the dude at the test station will even begin to say...
The least of which being "Son, didn't you at least try to tune the darn thing..."
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
You could try a touch of e-85 in the tank.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
Hi Dr_Snooz, thanks for the link. I know it's not weber, but I've been looking for a good read to confirm a few things on my mind.
Cygnus, I went ahead and checked my float today, but I've got bad news... So according to some racetep images, as well as a lot of agreed up on numbers, the brass floats should have 41mm from the metal gasket flange to the "top"of the floats, when they are resting against the ball in the bottom of the float needle, without actually compressing it. The plastic-float setup should have 35mm. Both should open up to 51mm full travel when open all the way. The needle valve itself should only travel 2mm when going from closed to fully open.
If I take this accepted literature, then I'm screwed. With my plastic floats completely compressed against the needle valve, and unable to go down any further without forcing them, I'm at 35mm. If I measure it from the point where the tab contacts the ball without pushing it in, I'm at 41mm (must've been a friday assembly :omg: ). The full travel of the float is 47mm, but the needle valve itself only opens 2mm, so I'm cool with that.
When I look at the fuel level after the car's been sitting on level ground in the garage, it's about 3-5mm under the start of the ramp in the far wall of the bowl, and the fuel is maybe a hair over the little pin sitting in the giant-ish valve/pump thing in the center of the bowl.
Basically, I don't think I could possibly lean this out anymore than it already is, at least by modifying the fuel level.
Out of curiousity, will this cause me driveability problems with such a low fuel level? I've read that the jeep guys usually lower the fuel level in the float when off-roading to prevent leaning the car out if the bowl get's tilted severly/fuel bouncing around on the rough road... but then when I looked at the racetep site, I was reading that a low fuel level will cause fuel starvation in cornering (dunno if this only applied to severe track-like cornering?).
Unless you're getting fuel starvation or flooding during cornering, I wouldn't mess with the float level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
That site also says "DO NOT hook up vac advance to manifold vac, this is only good if you're trying to pass smog" and they go on to say that for economy/hp it would be better off to just unplug the hose, seal the vac leak, and manually advance the distributor to like 15-20 degrees (or in our case, it might be just full adv. we can get on this thing). Is this true? I know somebody on here that was saying they did that and were getting 38mpg, but I had hard time believing...
What kind of engines were they tuning on this site? Not all engines do vacuum advance the same way, so you can't really use such a generic rule of thumb. If you disconnected the vacuum advance and set the idle timing to 15-20 degrees you would get too much mechanical advance at higher RPMs. There are good reasons to not use vacuum advance, but usually it's only because you have a really aggressive cam that has a lumpy vacuum signal; or you have an individual runner manifold/carb setup. And in this case you would only want at most about 10 degrees of advance at idle.
With vacuum advance you should be good with 25-30 degrees advance at idle. The factory spec is 24 (manual trans) but you can commonly go a little higher with Webers. Without vacuum advance connected it should be 5-10 degrees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
I put my order in for a pair of 40 & 45 idles, 40's the smallest ones they've got, so if that's not enough I'll have to go even lower on the mains (135 or 140...) I'd be scared to go anywhere into the main circuit at that point.. just a nice easy drive to the station, do the test, and come back then re-jet it again.
I think you'll be ok with the 45s. One step down will make a significant difference, and you aren't really that far off now. Just make sure the engine is fully warm before you test. The choke MUST be fully open or it will run too rich.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
I'm actually really loving the simplicity of this thing though... taking the hat off feels like a stupid pain but it goes pretty quick. I bet that once I know what jets to use for what situation (testing vs reg driving), then I'll probably be able to re-jet the thing in about as much time as it normally takes to just get the factory air cleaner off the keihin =]
Thanks for the replies!!
I really liked the 38. It was SO easy to work on and performed quite well. But ultimately I had my eyes on DIY fuel injection so that's what I did.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Alright, thanks for the heads up. It's not bogging out or anything at all really in the cornering, so I decided to leave it as it is.
The only thing I can say to explain the high level in the float that one time was that I pulled the hat off right after I was revving it really high.
I read that older "pulse" style in-tank fuel pumps put out more when the engine is revved higher, sometimes even overpowering the needle valve and float.
I took out my regulator a week after the install because it was attached to the manifold and I was worried it was baking my fuel.
It'll probably be fine if it runs a little rich after some WOT runs, until it levels out, so I'll leave it like it is for now.
I let the car warm up until the fan kicks on before checking the jetting, and I am letting the O2 sensor get some high temps in it before I start relying on it too much. I noticed it read a little higher after some WOT revs.
I mounted mine in place of the stock sensor, is this ok? I read it's bad to let it get very hot, but I doubt this NA motor will hit exhaust temps that will ruin it...?
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
"DO NOT hook up vac advance to manifold vac, this is only good if you're trying to pass smog"
Maybe on an American engine from the '80s. On these engines that doesn't make much sense. They were designed for manifold vac.
Unless I'm misunderstanding this thread, you're tuning for smog, not rock crawling, not drag racing or anything else. I'd encourage you, for smog purposes, to confine your tuning efforts to the carb alone. If you're having to mess around with timing and advance and a bunch of other stuff, you're only masking a carb tuning problem. All internal combustion engines require an AFR of 14.7 under all circumstances except maybe WOT where they can run a little richer. With few exceptions (limited mostly to forced induction engines), any properly tuned carb will deliver 14.7 (or as close as practically possible) to the manifold under all throttle and vacuum conditions. As such, a properly tuned carb will be a plug and play swap, without changing a single other thing.
If I'm reading your results right, you are running pig rich, with both HCs and CO running way, way over the upper limit. If you were in CA, you'd have gone "gross polluter" and be dealing directly with bureaucrats and specially licensed test facilities to get your car smogged now. Be thankful you aren't here.
But I digress. In my experience, the CO tends to rise if the engine has been allowed to run rich for a long time, or has otherwise been neglected and unmaintained. For the next test, change your oil and make sure your plugs aren't fouled and your wires, cap and rotor are in good shape. A bottle of injector cleaner couldn't hurt either. Also make sure the cat is fully warmed up before the next test. Frankly, the shop should make sure of that for you, but sometimes they don't. Get the car up to operating temp, then run it down the freeway good and hard before taking it in for the test.
The HCs are a bigger issue and require meaningful carb tuning. Again, I'm not familiar with Webers, but the idle mixture on most carbs is controlled exclusively by one single screw called, logically, the "idle mixture screw." It's only job is to control the mixture at idle, and only at idle. With a good O2 sensor, you should be able to sort that out in about 5 minutes. That assumes that your floats are adjusted correctly. I haven't found many people on online discussion boards who seem genuinely to understand how carbs work or what tuning is supposed to accomplish. Weber should have something to say about float adjustment and I would do whatever they say. Like Cygnus said, if you don't have the floats adjusted correctly, everything else is fiddling around the margins.
At the 2500 RPM level, you'll have to adjust the mixture at the jets and maybe the metering rods, if your carb has those. The other possibility is that your cat is bad. I would test it, but your numbers are bad enough to suggest additional carb tuning problems.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-acc...converter.html
The smog test is really nothing more than a test of how your engine is running. If it's running optimally, you'll pass the test without issues. If it isn't, you'll fail. So you and the smog test are on the same team. If you get your tune right, the smog test will follow naturally. Try to get over the idea that you're going to have one tune for smog and then another tune the rest of the time. The test is telling you that you're running rich, which will eventually clog up your cat, thin your oil and cause other problems. That's something you want to correct now and not undo as soon as the test is over. I know it's a hassle, but it's worth taking time to pass the smog test properly.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr_Snooz
The smog test is really nothing more than a test of how your engine is running. If it's running optimally, you'll pass the test without issues. If it isn't, you'll fail. So you and the smog test are on the same team. If you get your tune right, the smog test will follow naturally. Try to get over the idea that you're going to have one tune for smog and then another tune the rest of the time. The test is telling you that you're running rich, which will eventually clog up your cat, thin your oil and cause other problems. That's something you want to correct now and not undo as soon as the test is over. I know it's a hassle, but it's worth taking time to pass the smog test properly.
I agree with you there; this really does explain why my oil goes dark so fast... I intend to leave it properly tuned as well. the "stupid, pig-rich" way I had it setup before basically ate fuel like crazy as well T.T
I got myself tuned as best I can to 14.7; my wideband kind of goes everywhere, and for some reason it doesn't return to the same point I tune to after I go for a short drive.
I leaned it out pretty good on the idle circuit. just standing it's at a steady 24 psi of vacuum, afr is 14.6,7,8 which I assume should be fine. The 2500 rpm level is @ 15.3 - 15.7... I heard that if you're not right on at 14.7, then the catalytic converter is useless, or to be more exact, if you're not bouncing 10% +/- of 14.7, to keep the converters reactions going, then it's about as useless as a clog in your exhaust... Is this true? I thought leaner would be better..
Either way, I went out to the station today, and this time, the guy bothered to remember that he's supposed to automatically fail anyone who doesn't have the egr & air injection hooked up irregardless of what carb they have :rant:
I'll have to re-install those parts, and at least hook up the vac to the egr, but I dunno where to plug it in either. I'm assuming it should go to manifold vac, since it should be open mainly at idle, right?
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
I got myself tuned as best I can to 14.7; my wideband kind of goes everywhere, and for some reason it doesn't return to the same point I tune to after I go for a short drive.
I think it's fairly normal for the readings to drift around a bit due to temperature changes in parts of the engine, the outside air, etc..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
I leaned it out pretty good on the idle circuit. just standing it's at a steady 24 psi of vacuum, afr is 14.6,7,8 which I assume should be fine. The 2500 rpm level is @ 15.3 - 15.7... I heard that if you're not right on at 14.7, then the catalytic converter is useless, or to be more exact, if you're not bouncing 10% +/- of 14.7, to keep the converters reactions going, then it's about as useless as a clog in your exhaust... Is this true? I thought leaner would be better..
If you can get it to run leaner I wouldn't worry about it. If it's leaner than 14.7 there shouldn't be much unburnt HC for the converter to process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
Either way, I went out to the station today, and this time, the guy bothered to remember that he's supposed to automatically fail anyone who doesn't have the egr & air injection hooked up irregardless of what carb they have :rant:
I'll have to re-install those parts, and at least hook up the vac to the egr, but I dunno where to plug it in either. I'm assuming it should go to manifold vac, since it should be open mainly at idle, right?
I was wondering about that. Really I'm surprised they let you use a non-OEM carb at all.
The EGR is closed at idle and WOT, and only opens under certain conditions, most of which are light throttle cruise. Best bet would be to download one of the shop manuals (I would give you a link to one I have hosted but the server is down for some reason, need to check on that) and basically add everything back for the EGR and whatever else they say you need. This is a new territory and I don't recall that anyone has ever tried this before with a Weber. My guess is that you should be able to use EGR and some of the other factory stuff that doesn't depend on the carb.
At this point though you might consider looking up the rules for emissions testing in your state and see for yourself what you really need to do to make it pass. It's entirely possible the guy at the testing station is just jerking you around and has no intention of ever letting you pass.
C|
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
Either way, I went out to the station today, and this time, the guy bothered to remember that he's supposed to automatically fail anyone who doesn't have the egr & air injection hooked up irregardless of what carb they have :rant:
If you have a hard time locating the air injection parts, it's because your car never had it. The tech should know that from his computer print out.
As for the EGR, I'd be surprised to find any tech who would know whether you have a working EGR or not. They aren't paid to be forensic investigators. They just look for something obvious and check a box when they find it. Give him something obvious to see and he won't question it. Making sure the stuff works is the sniffer's job.
Having said that, I'm a fan of having all the smog stuff present and in working order. Not only does it keep the smog down, but it tends to prolong the life of the engine too. I think smog laws are onerous and punitive, but you shouldn't flout them just because. To make the EGR work, you'll need a reliable manifold vacuum source and your black box to regulate its function. Failing that, just have the stuff there and looking like it's hooked up and working. The EGR is meant to cool a lean mixture and you're not anywhere close to lean, so you won't need it.
Here's a link to a long write-up I did on passing smog with a non-stock setup: https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-acc...ight=pass+smog. Not a soul has read the whole thing. And no one ever will, but it's a resource if you care to devote the effort. In general, the less your tech knows, the better. Consider finding a different shop for your next test. Get your bay looking as stock as possible, knowing that the tech knows next to nothing about your car unless he's a real big fan of 3rd gen Accords. If you can find a way to use the stock air filter, it will cover the new carb and the tech will never be the wiser. Let him check his boxes and run the sniffer. Then leave. Don't tell him anything. He doesn't need to know. After all, if you blow clean, you blow clean. Period.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dr_Snooz
If you have a hard time locating the air injection parts, it's because your car never had it. The tech should know that from his computer print out.
Well I put that part that sits right behind the valve cover back, along with the piping going to the exhaust manifold.
The tech looked at the vac wiring I have under the hood to make that call. I just realized though that it could be wrong, since I have a JY hood [emoji4]
I did read your post that you linked, a while ago, as well as the ones for troubleshooting the CAT. Very useful, and I'm a bit concerned if mines dead or not, but guest I'll see how I blow this time before playing with it.
I'm doing my oil pan gasket along with my oil before I go this time.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: How to pass the sniffer?
UPDATE:
I passed the test today.
I seafoamed the car on Friday, and did the oil pan gasket (and changed the oil) over the past weekend.
Here are the results from the test.
If anyone is interested how to jet the 38.38 Weber for the sniffer, here's what I have:
Mains - 145
Air Correctors - 210
Idle jets - 40
Pump Jet - 70
AFR by Bosch LSU 4.9:
@Idle: 14.8
@2500RPM: 15.8
I think I'll leave my car like this actually and see what kind of mpg I get for the rest of the tank.
I had a lean hole when I open the throttle up a bit more than 1mm via the pedal, (AFR spikes to 17.8-> off the charts) but it tends to settle out when the car's been warmed up for a while.
I love the carbon-caked puddle's I'm making on my driveway now though :kekeke:
Attachment 6841
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Nice! 15.8 is pretty lean and you may get misfires (engine will have sort of a nervous twitchy feeling), but if you can run that lean go for it. Advancing the timing a few degrees may help if you do get misfiring.
My guess is that 40 idle jets are too small, which results in the lean hole. But hey, you should get decent mileage.
C|
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Thats great work getting it to pass. Just keep working on the tune. The only lean numbers I would worry about is at WOT on long pulls. If its really lean that could hurt the motor bad.
There usually a "free air" calibration for widebands. Mine stays pretty steady but I have the stock fuel injection.
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
I had a lean hole when I open the throttle up a bit more than 1mm via the pedal, (AFR spikes to 17.8-> off the charts) but it tends to settle out when the car's been warmed up for a while.
Congrats on passing the test! Those are some good numbers too. It's a good feeling when you pass isn't it?
If you're saying that the AFR spikes when you punch the gas, that would be an accelerator pump adjustment or possibly a metering rod and spring adjustment (if you have those).
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
88Sleeper
UPDATE:
I passed the test today.
I seafoamed the car on Friday, and did the oil pan gasket (and changed the oil) over the past weekend.
Here are the results from the test.
If anyone is interested how to jet the 38.38 Weber for the sniffer, here's what I have:
Mains - 145
Air Correctors - 210
Idle jets - 40
Pump Jet - 70
AFR by Bosch LSU 4.9:
@Idle: 14.8
@2500RPM: 15.8
I think I'll leave my car like this actually and see what kind of mpg I get for the rest of the tank.
I had a lean hole when I open the throttle up a bit more than 1mm via the pedal, (AFR spikes to 17.8-> off the charts) but it tends to settle out when the car's been warmed up for a while.
I love the carbon-caked puddle's I'm making on my driveway now though :kekeke:
Attachment 6841
Can you add this to the weber jet thread, if it's still around, or I can do it, just want to make sure you get the credit.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/carbureto...izes-dcoe.html
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
A20A1
Sure, I can do so now if it hasn't been added.
I probably should have updated you guys sooner, but as Cygnus was thinking, the 40 idle jets were a bit too small, and I got tired of lurching around when the car still hadn't come to full temp (and even then it was still lurching).
I put in 45's and rolled with it, it's still lurchy up until the water temp goes past the low bar, and when its warm its ok.
I was getting 30mpg at the beginning with the 40's, & it dropped to ~28 +/- 1.5 when I put in the 45's & the 15" wheels (wrapped by 205/55/15's).
Now I'm getting a steady 26.5-27 & I think it's because the air filter is caked over in dirt from the past year... Now I'm learning that the small 1 7/8" filter should be washed/oiled pretty often.
Plus I started to mess with the timing thinking that I could try straight mechanical advance (not bad, but I think I set it too high on the first try, it wasn't pinging, but felt like it was running into a wall over 3k rpm) I set it to the middle of the 3 marks that you're supposed to align to while the vac advance is hooked up. Now that I put it back to that mark with the vac advance hooked up, it's gutless, makes a lot of noise, with low power.
I noticed that my AFR was a bit leaner with the mechanical advance, but I gotta figure out how to set it at a good point where the motor isn't banging itself to hell... (ideas?)
Thanks!
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Re: How to pass the sniffer?
Using the 32/36 I would put in 55 idle primary jet 50 secondary/set up by backing off the curb idle stop screw on the linkage as much at it will go and still keep the car running. Then bring the timing up a hair till the motor idles enough to back that stop screw more if possible. Then set the timing at around 17btc just a hair over recommended. Then adjust the mixture screws to between 1 and 2 turns out, best idle hopefully falls in @ 1.5 ish turns out. From there make small adjustments to get your desired idle. This procedure assures the proper transition of flow circuits and best throttle response & mpg.
Also would get the 5 inch top hat adapter so you can use a standard 4bbl low profile air breather....makes a huge difference :)
