Ignition coil questions

Has anyone bought an ignition coil made by import direct, delphi or standard motor products.

Which one is the best out of these 3 brands?
Do you know if any of them is made in China?
Has anyone used the Delphi brand, if so what do you think of it?

I'm replacing my 2nd BWD that's made in Japan that I bought from Advance Auto. I was going to get it replaced under the warranty but they no longer carry it. I heard Standard bought out BWD sometime ago. The 1st BWD I bought years ago lasted for several years. The one I'm replacing is about 1yr old. It was leaking oil. I made the mistake of testing it on the car and the results said coil was good. When I removed it to test it again that's when I found the pool of oil under it. It cracked right where I couldn't see the leak because of the guard it sits on. Any thoughts or advice would be helpful

86 Honda accord lx, auto, 2.0L 2bbl carb.

Ignition Coil Resistance

This is for the EFI coils:

The new Standard auto ones I have checked are incorrect. I would assume the other Standard brands are incorrect as well.

I dont think I have bought on in the last 7 years.

Oldblueaccord

So what your saying is standard is not a good brand for the coil. The 1st one I bought the BWD brand was still it's own company Maybe that's why it lasted for several years. I was surprise this one took a dump so soon.

Do you know anything about Delphi or Import Direct brands? Import Direct is Oreillys brand. I don't know how good their parts are.

I have had pretty good luck with Oreillys branded stuff last couple of years. Delphi I have no idea really.

What ever you get I would just check the coil reads close to what the book spec is over all at room temp.

The OHMS I have gotten on those Standard coils made me think "this coil will overheat" and reading what you wrote about all the oil leaking out makes sense to me.

Wells was a company I remember from a while back but I havent seen there products in a while.

Oldblueaccord

Thanks for the help again. I'll take everything you said into consideration.

I've also had good luck with O'Reilly's parts. In fact, I use them over Rock Auto now.

Thanks Dr_Snooze for your input. I decided to go with the Delphi only because I got a good deal on it. It will arrive tomorrow. I never used this brand of coil before so I'll let you guys know how it goes. I can always return it and get my money back. I'm not to crazy about rockauto's stuff anymore either. So if the Delphi doesn't work I'll try Oreillys coil.

Thanks to you and Oldblueaccord

I did put the Delphi coil on thinking this was my crank no start problem but it wasn't. I also checked my igniter on the dizzy. The igniter had what looked like vegetable oil on it. I don't know where it came from but it was on the side of the igniter that's against the dizzy. Couldn't be my oil it's dirty and the only thing that's close to it is the thermostat housing and it's not leaking. Cleaned the igniter and the car started yesterday. Today started the car this morning and I was so happy it started. I decided to change the oil and did and now the car will not start again. Any suggestions?

The distributor seal is probably leaking, there is a write up on how to rebuild the TEC unit, but imo the Hitachi is a better and more reliable design if you are considering a new one.

I have a question about the voltage on the pickup coil when they say test readings should be battery voltage do they mean 12v or the actual voltage of my battery.

Example: Battery voltage 12.83
Pick up coil reading 12.27

I did pulled the cap and rotor to see if dizzy was leaking and didn't see anything. I think if it was oil it would be black . I needed to change oil it was way past due but haven't been able to get the car to start consistently like what happened yesterday. My igniter is external.

No battery voltage is what your battery reads right at the terminals. The "voltage drop" you see is pretty normal under 1 VDC at the coil.

Oldblueaccord

Thanks for clarifying that for me. So anything around 11-12v depending on what I'm testing is alright, is what your saying?

yes.

If its dropping to 11 something volts on a fully charged battery I would start to worry about the condition of your wiring, however, as long as the grounds are good that is good enough to work usually

I was going to check ground wires but can't do it today It's raining

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lx 1986

The igniter had what looked like vegetable oil on it. I don't know where it came from but it was on the side of the igniter that's against the dizzy.

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That's dielectric grease and it needs to be on there.

For the no-start condition, are you getting fuel and spark?

Added a ground wire from the negative post on the battery to body & changed that small ground that runs from the valve cover to the body to a larger battery size one. Also ran some tests on the igniter unit & igniter itself. Can someone tell me if my readings are good.

IGNITER UNIT TEST From 89 Accord manual pg 24-9
Battery voltage at start of tests: 12.78

TEST #2
Bu 1 wire to body ground with ignition ON
RESULTS: 12.28v

BLk/Y wire to body ground with ignition ON
RESULTS: 12.28v

(Book says there should be battery voltage)

TEST #3
G and Bu 2 measure resistance between terminals on pick up coil.
RESULTS: 510 ohms.

(Book says Resistance: Approx.750 ohms)
(My meter set at 2000 ohms)

IGNITER TEST

TEST #4
Check for continuity in both directions between A and B terminals on the igniter output.

Postive probe on A and negative on B
RESULTS: continuity

Positive on B and negative on A
RESULTS: 13.54-18.70

(Book says continuity should be only one direction)

TEST #5
Connect positive probe to D terminal and negative probe to igniter unit ground.
RESULTS: 00.2

(Book says Igniter input Resistance 50,000 ohms)
(My meter set at 200k ohms)

Dr_Snooz

Since I took the igniter off to do the test I noticed that it looked slightly wet again. Is the grease made with some kind of oil? I know the grease is suppose to be there but it looks like the oil is coming from the grease. Does this grease melt because what I'm seeing is something that looks like light weight Wesson cooking oil. The only other place anything could leak from is the igniter itself. The igniter and that piece of junk dizzy are still under warranty. I just bought that dizzy less than a year ago to replace the same brand that took a dump right after the warranty ran out. I would have bought another brand but that's the only one that works on my car.

Looks like the igniter is shorted from pin D. Turn the meter to a lower reading, idk how many digits your meter shows so not 100% sure how many ohms .2 is, my guess is 20. All the other tests are fine if you were wondering.

ShiRen

My meter starts at 200, 2000, 20k, 200k and 2000k is the highest setting for OHMS.
Turned meter down to 20k and specs were flashing off and on with different numbers no steady read.

So my dizzy is Ok, so I'll eliminate that as the problem.

The igniter ground test reminds me I think there is a small ground strap from the igniter body to the distributor housing on the tec distributors. Make sure yours has one or make one. The ground is very important on transistorized ignition systems since the sink(switch) to ground.

Oldblueaccord

Your right there is a ground wire to the igniter.
It's part of the wire harness that goes from the dizzy to the ignition coil. At the end where the ignition coil is, it branches off and has 2 connectors. The big white connector goes to the ignition coil and the ground is connected to a small device next to the ignition coil. I believe it's has something to do with static in the radio. I don't know what it's called. It's attached to bracket that holds the ignition coil and the bracket is attach to the body of the car. I checked it and it's grounded. It's getting battery voltage 12.77 same as battery at the igniter.

This is another igniter I have can someone tell me if my readings are good on this one? If this one is good I'll use as temporary replacement.


WAI IGNITER

Continuity should be in one direction on the igniter output

TEST #4
postive probe on A and negative probe on B
Result: 1

negative probe on B and postive probe on A
Result: 13-16

TEST #5
Connect positive probe to D terminal and negative probe to igniter unit ground.
RESULTS: 23,000 ohms

(Book says Igniter input Resistance 50,000 ohms)
(My meter set at 200k ohms)

Neither igniter is within spec, so they need to be replaced. Though I've never heard of an igniter on these cars failing and causing a no-start condition. They usually cause enough tach hop that you replace them before that.

Not sure on the cooking oil. Maybe the igniter is getting hot and liquifying the grease.

The dizzy itself is just a rotor that spins. It's pretty hard to mess that up. It does have 3 electronic parts though:

• The igniter, which you need to replace.
• The camshaft sensor, which almost never fails and throws a code when it does.
• The pickup coil which, again, almost never fails.

The manual has tests for all these parts and last l checked, they're all still available so you shouldn't have too much trouble getting it working.

I'll ask again though, have you done a basic no-start diagnosis and established that the car is getting fuel?

So, the tenths place in the 200k setting is the ten thousands place? That doesn't make sense to me, the hundred thousands place should be the left most digit, where I would assume the integer would be in the 2000k setting. Im just basing this off the fact that it shows 50ohms as 50 in the 200ohm setting, it moves the decimal over each time then it should read .5 for 50ohms, and if it was that way it couldn't read single digits or lower, which is absolutely crap if you ask me. Do yourself a favor and buy this meter New ANENG AN8002 Digital True RMS 6000 Counts Multimeter AC/DC Current Voltage Frequency Resistance Temperature Tester ℃/℉ bside avd06 voltage detector knopp k-60 tester k60 aemc high - - Amazon.com It is the only sub $50 true rms meter you will ever find, basically a fluke clone.

Even at 20k that igniter is out of spec. I wish this forum would see the light in the superior Hitachi distributor. These TEC units suck, and the replacement parts suck, I bet that ignitor came out of spec. I don't expect you to buy an ignitor for that reason though, I don't remember if you ever said you've watched for spark with a tester, or laid a plug on the valve cover, but if you don't have spark and you have power to the dizzy its gonna either be an ignition coil or a dizzy. You've replaced the coil, I wouldn't trust a reman coil as far as I could throw it either, I'd just put an Accel or MSD coil in it and be done, but I doubt its doa. I could see the pick up coil in the dizzy being bad, when my TEC died I am still not convinced it was the ignitor, but I had the tach jump. This is why I would write off the TEC.

Snooz, OP has an LX, so that dizzy is dumb as can be, just a pick up and an ignitor... its basically a fancy friggin points ignition and no codes to throw.

Dr_Snooz

Your right about tac hop that's why I replaced the igniter for all 3 of these WAI dizzys. Right out of the box brand new. All 3 had tac hop. So I bought one WVE brand igniter from Rock and have used the same one on all 3 dizzys and problem went away. The WVE brand is the one I have on there right now that I'm seeing the oil on it. It's still under warranty from Rock.

Yes it was getting fuel and spark after I changed the ignition coil. I waited about an hour to see if it would restart again just to make sure it would. I thought the coil was the problem so I could change my oil, so I did. After I changed the oil it wouldn't start again. So I thought no spark that's what lead me to check the igniter and pick up coil on the dizzy. Well ShiRen was saying pick up coil specs are good so I'm ruling out the dizzy. That leaves the igniter.

ShiRen
I had no choice but to buy a after market ignition coil. The one that was on there was made by BWD and was under warranty. I bought it from Advance Auto, but they no longer sell it, so warranty is no good anymore. So I bought Delphi brand. OEM was an BWD product. I replaced twice. 1st one lasted yrs. the 2nd one lasted less than a yr. Goes to show how inferior parts are made today as opposed to yrs ago. All coils are not reman they were all new.

As for the dizzy no one could give me info about whether or not the Hitachi was interchangeable with a motor with a tec dizzy that's why I went with the WAI from Rock because of the external igniter. I know the Hitachi has an internal igniter, but is it compatible with my motor.

TEST #5 for WAI igniter (book says Resistance 50,000) ohms I'm assuming they mean 50 thousand.

Meter set at 200k or 200,000 thousand reading is 23.0

Meter set at next higher setting 2000k gives me a reading of 023

Meter set at 20k that is setting right below 200k gives me flashing reading which I assume means cannot give a reading because it's set to low.

If it was getting both fuel and spark, then your problem is timing. Is the timing belt broken? You'd want to verify that it was getting adequate fuel and spark, of course.

Dr_Snooz

The timing belt is new and timing is correct. So it looks like it's the igniter that's the problem right now. I've changed igniters before and have never seen any oil. Usually the grease is dry. I'm going to pull that WVE and test it again. Maybe for test #5, I didn't have my meter set right. But if I have to send it back to Rock it's still under warranty and I'd need to pull it anyway.

I was going to pull it today but it's raining I thought it was going to be sunny today like yesterday

I think the numbers might not match the book but like the stock style coils there not going to made to spec. A lot of it is the components like the transistor are not available anymore.

I think you need to manually verify that you do or do not have spark at the plugs thats causing your no start problem. Its certainly possible the spark plugs are just fouled out from poor carb performance.

EDIT: second thought when testing a raw component like the igniter it needs to be out of the circuit..unhooked completely.. and your ground probe needs to be solid to the point of scraping/scratching to "make" the ground.

Oldblueaccord

My plugs are new. When I test the igniter it's always pulled out of the dizzy that's the only way to test it. I'm just not sure if I did the measurement correctly for D and ground. I guess either way I'd have to pull the igniter to test it and if it's bad I'll return to Rock for a replacement. Thanks for the help

Ok I pulled WVE . Put fresh battery in my meter. Here's the results.

RETESTED WVE AGAIN TODAY (HAD OIL ON IT)
TEST #5 for WAI igniter (book says Resistance 50,000) ohms I'm assuming they mean 50 thousand. THIS IS FOR D AND GROUND

Meter set at highest ohms setting 2000k gives me a reading of 000

Meter set at 200k or 200,000 thousand reading is 00.2

Meter set at 20k that is setting right below 200k gives me 0.16
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So at 200k my reading was 00.2.
I assume I set my meter correctly because the book says 50k. I did the reading with settings at 2000k and 20k to show what I got with those 2 settings to clarify what readings were above and below 200k.

So is this out of specs?

What Brand of silicone dielectric paste should I buy? The one I got at Autozone is white and I think is breaking down that's why I'm seeing oil on the igniter again when I removed it for the retest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lx 1986

Ok I pulled WVE . Put fresh battery in my meter. Here's the results.

RETESTED WVE AGAIN TODAY (HAD OIL ON IT)
TEST #5 for WAI igniter (book says Resistance 50,000) ohms I'm assuming they mean 50 thousand. THIS IS FOR D AND GROUND

Meter set at highest ohms setting 2000k gives me a reading of 000

Meter set at 200k or 200,000 thousand reading is 00.2

Meter set at 20k that is setting right below 200k gives me 0.16
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So at 200k my reading was 00.2.
I assume I set my meter correctly because the book says 50k. I did the reading with settings at 2000k and 20k to show what I got with those 2 settings to clarify what readings were above and below 200k.

So is this out of specs?

What Brand of silicone dielectric paste should I buy? The one I got at Autozone is white and I think is breaking down that's why I'm seeing oil on the igniter again when I removed it for the retest.

---

The paste is thermal grease so it helps transfer heat away from the ignitor I think is what you want.

The readings with your meter setting seem to be out of book spec. Thats why auto ranging meters are popular know because alot of time the scale of those old ones made it hard to read and the accuracy is not that great as you can see by your readings.

Oldblueaccord

So the conclusion is the igniter is bad, then even though I don't have auto tuning and am using old meter. I just need to know if it's bad.

Sorry wish I could say for sure but I cant..I still would have someone help you manually crank the engine and check for spark at the plugs and go back from there.

Possible to get some else with a meter to check it for you like your mechanic. ..second opinion would not hurt.

Alright what I decided to do was to swap out the WVE igniter for the WAI igniter that came with the dizzy originally. I do know the WAI would start the car because it was working before I replaced it. It only had tac hop when I turned the AC on. Once replaced no tac hop. The oil I'm seeing is coming from the dielectric grease. I read it's mixed with some type of oil. I put the WAI back on and guess what? It started right up. So I'm sending the WVE back to Rock for replacement. I also decided to buy that multimeter ShiRen suggested and some dielectric grease on Amazon. I'll post back when I get the WVE igniter back and installed.
Thanks guys for the help and support.

Ignitors are freakin whack man... If I did not have enough projects and I didn't throw the old TEC in the bin I'd figure out how to put a GM hei ignitor in there. They do didly squat, basically like a signal conversion.

I installed my new igniter I used the new grease I bought. I decided to tackle the high gas level in the carb. It took a while for the level to go down but I got it down a little lower than I wanted but had to stop adjusting the fumes were getting me sick. I'll do more adjusting tomorrow or Monday. I'm going to hang on to the igniter I replaced at least I know it starts the car. It helped me get to my vaccine appt on Wed. I'm just glad I didn't have to walk the 3 miles to get there. I'll posts back again I'll probably need more help anyway. Thanks again guys

Keep chipping away at it one thing at a time. Glad you got your vax Im getting mine next week.

Oldblueaccord

I'll keep trying? Glad to here your getting vax next week. My 2nd vax is on Apr 29th at CVS they schedule you automatically for the 2nd vax they show you dates and you pick a time. They ran a smooth operation in CA.

I have another question. The fuel sending unit is separate from my fuel pump and it seems to not register the correct fuel amount sometimes. Would the sending unit have anything to do with stopping fuel from going to my carb or does it not have any affect on the fuel other than showing how much is in the tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lx 1986

I have another question. The fuel sending unit is separate from my fuel pump and it seems to not register the correct fuel amount sometimes. Would the sending unit have anything to do with stopping fuel from going to my carb or does it not have any affect on the fuel other than showing how much is in the tank.

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No it just measures the fuel amount unless EFI and carb tanks are totally different.

Thanks Oldblueaccord I guess I'll worry about that later then

EFI Flooding - Won't Start

post 14 Niles has some tests/specs and part numbers to go with it as far as the igniter readings.

Oldblueaccord

Not sure if the dizzy was the problem or igniter. I got to thinking only reason I swapped original igniter with WVE igniter was it had tac hop when I turned the ac on but it did start the car. I checked igniter unit and everything was good. So I pulled the WVE igniter and put the original igniter back on and car started. Since WVE igniter was still under warranty I sent it back for replacement to Rock. Got replacement. I went to get gas before I swapped the igniters. Swapped them and car wouldn't start again. I put original back on again & car started right up.

Found out replacement WVE igniter I got from Rock was the problem. The replacement was not the same part. I got a box marked WVE/NTK made in Japan but what I got as replacement was a part made in China. Different #s stamped on parts. Not the 1st time this has happened. I installed it not thinking they would send a different part. I was going to send the part back again for a 2nd replacement because it's still under warranty but they wouldn't do that but they will give me a refund minus return shipping. I'm wondering if the reasoning behind this is I didn't pay as much for my WVE as there charging for it now and if I repurchase it's going to cost me an extra 45.00 more. I can see why rock stopped having online chats probably there were to many complaints of wrong products being sent out in random boxes. It's called bait and switch. My goal right now is just to make it to my 2nd vax next week so I can get that out of the way. The car is running kinda rough but enough to get me there.

I'm finding out that world power dizzy is not the problem. It's the igniter they put on there. It causes tac hop. If the igniter is replaced with a different brand it goes away.

Gosh, just buy a Hitachi off ebay, TEC ignitors are a lost cause.
DISTRIBUTOR HONDA ACCORD 86 87 88 89 | eBay
88 89 1988 1989 HONDA ACCORD DISTRIBUTOR 2.0L MT | eBay
These probably actually work still too, just put a cap and rotor in it if it starts the car.

Amazing my orginal TEC still making it. ..I must be lucky.

And when he finds out the Hitachi won't fit on his head, what then?

Why wouldn't it? They're the same design on the mount. It fits on mine and I don't see any other heads being different. Heck you could use a fuel injected TEC on a carbed engine provided you have long enough bolts to get through the cam angle sensor.
Unless theres some California engine fuckery that I don't know about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord

Amazing my orginal TEC still making it. ..I must be lucky.

---

I thought mine was going to be a survivor. Sike! I was going to let one of my friends drive it before tach bounce... funny I said I'd let him drive it the same day my clutch stopped reacting to pedal input, and the time it started growling... I don't mention his name around my car anymore.

They mount differently. You have to replace the mount and to do that, you have to remove the valve cover and replace the cam cap. Easy for you, but I think OP wants his car to run without having to do head work, or having to run around junkyards looking for scarce parts.

Really? There was no difference on mine, I did not change the cam cap. It mounts normally, I have it basically in the middle of it's adjustment and there is tons of it. The ears are no wider or narrower. I'll have to look at the cap on the engine I pulled it off of, I didn't notice anything different. Here's a pic for proof... Ignore the backing out bolt, I just noticed that.
Attachment 10721

The one has a big long stud on it.

ShiRen

The 1st 1 you have up there is for a manual with federal emissions. I'm in CA where're the worst in the country for emission standards. 2nd one doesn't really state anything. Like Dr_Snooze says I really don't want anything to go wrong with this.

I still have my Cardone dizzy which replaced my original, which lasted for the better part of 30+ years. I wish I had hung on to it now. The only thing that was wrong with the Cardone is the can cracked in 1/2 and I couldn't find a replacement for it. I bought the WAI as the replacement because the newer Cardone's have changed their design and are not compatible anymore with my car. I bought from 3 different places had all 3 installed, all 3 couldn't be adjusted to idle right. When I was going to buy the spectra model I asked if it was compatible with my car because I didn't see an external igniter on it. It look like a Hitachi. No one could answer my question. I'm still waiting for Spectra to answer and that was 2yrs ago. When I bought my 1st rebuilt Cardone from Pepboys to replace the OEM I installed it in 10 mins and never had a problem with it until the can cracked.

I don't know that much about california emissions, but there is only one difference between the distributors and thats the ignitor. The person doing the smog check on your car shouldn't know the difference, the state honestly shouldn't know the difference. Its better that way. You should pass.

The Spectra: More Information for SPECTRA PREMIUM TD43K looks like a Hitachi with a TEC part number... Honestly that's great, albiet sketchy. Worst case scenario if you buy it its an actual TEC. Its twice the price of the ones on ebay though. All up to you.

I can't imagine what Cardone you got because 31841 is a compatible dizzy.

I just hate to see people get the run around on these TECs man. Apart from the ignitor there is no major difference between the Hitachi and the TEC. If the TEC is converted to a different ignitor, say a gm HEI then it should be fine.

The pic of the Cardone is an old pic. It's exactly like my 1st Cardone from Pepboys. The model that is now available is different. How it differs is the can position has changed. My OEM and the 1st Cardone from Pepboys and the WAI can, has the nozzles for the tubing facing up towards the hood. The new rebuilt Cardones the can's nozzles are facing towards the front passenger fender so you have to buy new tubing to reach it.

Whether or not this is what causes the idle problem I can't say. All I know is the 3 new rebuilt Cardones had the same problem. All cans are facing towards fender all bought at different places. Not the right housing. Talked to auto parts store, was told as long as connectors are the same it should work. Well it didn't. I won't trust them anymore. In theory it should work but didn't. I asked if they thought it was the position of the can. They didn't know. If there is something wrong internally other than the can I don't know. Maybe they installed wrong pickup coil. There are many that look a like. I know the housing is not right the can is facing the wrong way.

Bought a WAI it was installed, idle was perfect except for tac hop when ac is turned on. Bought WVE igniter, no more tac hop.

I just don't want to go through the hassle of having it not work and having to return it or getting something I get stuck with. I went through a lot of hassle with those 3 for something that takes 10 min to install and should work. I spent 2 1/2 mos trying to straightening things out with 3 different companies.

Don't think I don't appreciate your input. I do. Unfortunately CA is very strict everything has to be CA emissions or it's an automatic fail.

Haven't posted in awhile but I have been trying to fix things. I decided to put my old Cardone dizzy back in with the NEC igniter it came with. Now the car starts all the time. Only thing that was wrong with the Cardone was the can was cracked and inner seal was leaking, those issues were fixed. When I stepped on the brake to stop the car it would try to stall. I had to keep my foot on the gas to keep it from dying. A mechanic told me it was the pickup coil. I thought it was the can because of the crack. He said to replace the dizzy. So I replaced it with a new WAI one. Problem went away, then came back again recently, with that new dizzy. Also it would start sporadically. Turned out starting problem was igniter but it still had the braking problem.

Suggestions from this site were: brake booster, vacuum leaks, carb, fuel and ground issues. I checked and repaired most everything I found that wasn't working or had to be replaced.

Which brings me to another question. I'm hoping someone can help me with. I had another post about putting some sealer for a leak in my heater core. I haven't done it yet. I'm having the same problem again with the brakes. Would the leak in my heater core be considered a vacuum leak? Or could this cause my brakes to do this?

No heater core is just coolant.

Glad your getting it worked out.

Thanks Oldblueaccord for the response. I guess I can eliminate that as braking problem.

One of the things I did was shot some carb cleaner in those gold vent tubes at the top of the carb and in the tube where the gas line is connected to the carb because I read a post here where someone had a similar problem adjusting the level of gas in the site glass, thinking he had a seat and needle problem and a stuck float. He lucked out and it fixed his problem. I was trying to avoid having to open the top hat as last resort. It did help I can now adjust the float level but I did end up opening the top hat and shot carb cleaner in there and cleaned everything out. I replaced the choke opener because when I went to restart the car after it was warm the rpms went way up like it was warming up again. Still have to adjust idle and drive it to see if the brake problem is better or worse. The primary venturi is still shooting out gas when the car is at idle not really clear as to whether or not that's supposed to be happening. I still have to replace gas hose to carb it's old and has cracked at the opening, maybe that's why gas goes down below site glass overnight. Not sure about that either or there's another problem or that's my vacuum leak.

If the primary is dribbling gas then the float is too high, the orings in the seat screw are probably done. Also check the venturiis for wiggle and if they move tighten their screw on the passenger side of the carb.
Your braking issue definitely sounds like vacuum/carb or maybe the advance mechanism is the distributor.

I checked venturis both are tight. I'll try to lower the float level 1st.

I don't know what you mean by advance mechanism is the dizzy? Are you talking about the can?

I read some post here that said venturis leaking while car is idling could also be due to the being off the idle circuit is that true?

So just to clarify when the car is idling there should be no gas coming out of venturis at all except when I step on the gas I should only see a spray of gas?

You're going to get nowhere with lowering the float, the o rings are shot. The only fix for it is to buy a couple sets of fuel resistant o rings from the parts store and then carefully shaving them down until they fit. They are a very odd size. If I knew what size they are its possible I could point you towards a mcmaster carr part that will fit better or be cheaper... The orings I fixed mine with were an assorted Dorman set and only had 1 size each for like $7...
They should be about 5/16-3/8" OD

How difficult is it to fix the orings. Sounds like I would have to remove top hat completely right? Or is there another way it can be done without removing the top hat completely. This will solve the problem with the leaking venturi? Or is this just going to help me adjust the float.

I was thinking if the top hat is removed can I replace it with another top hat from another carb with a known working seat, needle and float? Are they interchangeable?

I just wanted to know if it's possible in case I can't find the orings.

Its not difficult, finding the parts is a little tricky. I just made a writeup here: https://www.3geez.com/forum/carburet...ml#post1223619 I think I found the full rebuild kit, looks like it has the right size orings, if not you can just shave down some normal fuel resistant orings.
You have to take the top off (easy, just don't break the gasket if you don't have a new one, and be careful not to lose any accelerator pump parts off the linkage in the back right) punch the pin out of the float, remove the needle and float, then you can turn the screw clockwise to screw it out of the bottom. It won't hold gas otherwise. You can change the top, but it will likely have the same problem, or will soon.

One thing you might be able to try just to verify the float bowl is overflowing and causing fuel to spray out the venturi, if you can get it to idle, pinch the fuel line off and see if it stops leaking out of the venturi, before the car begins to die. Itll take a good minute for it to use all the fuel in the bowl, I reckon about half way it will stop coming out the venturi... if it doesn't then the carb might need some more work, hopefully an ultrasonic and a rebuild kit is enough. Iirc an overflowing bowl will cause fuel to push out the accel pump orifice, the tiny hole above the primary venturi, so I won't say I'm 100% sure the bowl is overflowing.

Alright I'll try pinching the fuel hose but 1st I'll have to replace it. It still has old hose with the red covering on it.

If I replace the top hat with a known working one why do you say I'd have a problem later. I'm just curious as to why if the problem is with the seat, needle or float.

I guess if you replaced the top hat with one with the needle and seat orings replaced yeah I guess it would work, but you'll probably have an easier time finding the orings. I am just saying, they will deteriorate eventually on all cars, I've had them go out on 2 carbs.

Ok got it. Thanks for the help I really appreciate it guy.

I have another question. What exactly does the secondary barrel do on the carb. Reason I ask is I don't see any gas coming out of the venturi and I'm not sure if the gold plate at the bottom is suppose to move or not. It doesn't appear it does anything. Or is it doing something and I just don't see it.

It's there for more powaaaa. I don't know if you will get it to open without putting the engine under load since the secondaries are vacuum actuated on a stock car.

They might open if you just hold it wide open for a second lol, idk how comfortable you are redlining it while staring down the carb. It ought to work unless you have a vacuum leak in that circuit. The manual probably shows you how to test it.