weber on JDM B20a

On a 89 LX sedan, Im installing a JDM B20a from B20aturbo and had a few questions. With the JDM B20a and the A20a1 only having 1 O2 bung Im good there right or should I swap it out for the 88-91 lude header anyway?

Im going to use the 32/36 weber as the car is just a driver and its mostly highway miles at that. What kind of gas mileage did everyone get after the weber conversion?

To install the weber on the auto tranny I need to flatten out the throttle cable linkage plate and put that new hole in it and that will fix the WOT problem everyone talks about?

The weber only need a small amount of fule pressure should I install a regulator from the stock fuel pump to the weber for better management?

Ill go woth a MSD ignition but other than that this car is not a performance factory so when asnswering question try to relate to strret usable power as a daily driver only.

thanks Mike

also MSD sells a distributor for the 86-89 teg but for the TEC distributor. Does it matter when I swap the distributor out if its the TEC style or not?

Are u going from F.I. to Carbs? if so the TEC dizzy,igniter and coil fit from the carbed models. with modification to the mounting of the dizzy!

Inject that shit. You want to take a motor that has PGM-FI and make it carb'd.

Stock HP will probably go from 160 to like 130, if that.

If it isn't:

1: stock with a carb

2: a V8 of less than 428 ci

Then a carb is your enemy.

carb is the way to go man....especially dual dcoe webbers. almost all 4cyl circle trackers that use ford's 2.3 and toyotas 22r swap to carb and I read in muscle mustangs and fast fords the other day they did a test on edelbrocks torker 2 intake(carb) vs holley's systemax intake(efi) on a 5.0 and the carb won by like 5hp......carb is the way to go

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diegoaccord

Inject that shit. You want to take a motor that has PGM-FI and make it carb'd.

Stock HP will probably go from 160 to like 130, if that.

If it isn't:

1: stock with a carb

2: a V8 of less than 428 ci

Then a carb is your enemy.

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i would have to disagree, on a n/a engine dual dcoe's rule the only setup that would be an improvement over them is ITB's with a programable ecu, if you go with dcoe's get the 45's

Yep definatly carbs! butterfly per cyl v's 1 butterfly = come on!!?

ure right with the ITB's + ECU but carbs is half the cost!

plus extra computers = more weight!!

yup go with dcoes on that bad boy. i think on here somewhere there was a guy that siad he could get a few carbed b20a's they had the dual keihns like on my prelude.

i'm putting dual DCOM weber on my b20a.
You'll need the 86-87 teg distributor to works fine by the way.

Dual weber can be better than EFI

thanks for all the help but the b20a is just to just to replace the mildly warn a20a I have now. I want a little more power but but i\since its a daily driver Im more concerned with gas mileage and drivablility. This car will NEVER see a race. Its the wifes and with the baby Ill make sure it never races. I think ill just get the weber 32/36 and go with a little larger exhaust

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L3G10N

i'm putting dual DCOM weber on my b20a.
You'll need the 86-87 teg distributor to works fine by the way.

Dual weber can be better than EFI

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I dont get it!? I'm converting my b20 to webbers and found the teg dizzy to be too fat to go in the hole! yea, same drive - but too fat!
I got it from a carbed 86-87 teg at the breakers and it also dosen' mount directly.?
I managed to adapt a prelude a18 dizzy to fit by making the cap fit 180 degrees the other way so it would clear the thermostat and fastening it with a big washer! it is running rough but i havent got my webbers on yet and cant determine it being the a20 carb or the a20 dizzy??
:dunno:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Civvy

I dont get it!? I'm converting my b20 to webbers and found the teg dizzy to be too fat to go in the hole! yea, same drive - but too fat!
I got it from a carbed 86-87 teg at the breakers and it also dosen' mount directly.?
I managed to adapt a prelude a18 dizzy to fit by making the cap fit 180 degrees the other way so it would clear the thermostat and fastening it with a big washer! it is running rough but i havent got my webbers on yet and cant determine it being the a20 carb or the a20 dizzy??
:dunno:

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I believe the Integra distributor that people use on the B20A is off an FI, D16 motor. Maybe the carbed Integra uses a different distributor.

Just a thought,
Gregg

hmm, i tried the original b20 dizzy (obviously that fits) but because it was for a F.I i couldn't get a spark from it!

....surely this would be the same with any F.I. dizzy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by L3G10N

i'm putting dual DCOM weber on my b20a.
You'll need the 86-87 teg distributor to works fine by the way.

Dual weber can be better than EFI

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In your dreams. You'll tell this to my tailpipe :rolleyes:


BTW, the EFI 86-87 Integra distributor works fine and mounts the same as any B20A distributor...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Civvy

hmm, i tried the original b20 dizzy (obviously that fits) but because it was for a F.I i couldn't get a spark from it!

....surely this would be the same with any F.I. dizzy?

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Actually, the older FI distributors use vacuum advance (like the stock A20) and the newer ones use electronic (like the B20A). The FI Integra distributor should work just like the stock A20 distributor and will work with the stock ECU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gregg86DX

Actually, the older FI distributors use vacuum advance (like the stock A20) and the newer ones use electronic (like the B20A). The FI Integra distributor should work just like the stock A20 distributor and will work with the stock ECU.

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Mine is originaly carbed, meaning no ecu! If the A20 dizzy is the same as the F.I. teg dizzy. I'm o.k. then running my A20 dizzy?

Think I just need to get some real carbs a.s.a.p!

Need to get a manifold made for 45's!

Since you live in the UK, the B20A distributor is arleady controlled by a vacuum advance diaphragm. This distributor is in fact the same as a 86-87 EFI integra. No need to get any other distributor.

Big Thanx!! :bow:

Civvy, is your B20 a JDM B20A or a EDM B20A2?

jdm b20a1 got 4 now! :rockon:

Were they imported from Japan or where did you get them? There are 2 different 3g B20. The JDM with 160hp and the european with 137hp.

The U.K. spec is 137bhp B20a 1's. We have restricted engines over here!
The only difference's are Cams and a little higher CR which we would change to a better spec anyways!

We go to Europe on holiday and get a faster ride on their unrestricted mopeds!

A guy i know has a CRX del sol (non v-tec) and can't get over 112mph because his ECU has a built in speed restrictor!!

Screw that!! bin the Robots and sling a pair of Webers on! :pc:

Do you know for a fact that those are different between the JDM and euro engine? Also the ignition and ECU is different between JDM and euro. Are you from UK or Australia or something?

By the way in all europe the B20A(1/2/8) has 137hp.

No i dont! proberbly is a EDM then?
I'm in England!

If there's a digit after B20A in the engine code then it's an EDM engine. The digit can be 1, 2 or 8. (maybe 4 too, not sure about that one.)

"Mike" Are you in Washington State or DC, would you care to share your experiences with me offline a I'm doing a B20a Conversion also??

Civvy, Going to be back in the Uk soon. Where do you source your parts from?? as I'm sure I'll be picking up lots of stuff for my B20a Conversion

Ok, I admit I'm a bit of a dense when it comes to Carbs.

When you guys talk about a duel Webber is that physically a single Carb or two units bolted together???

I have a stock 89 DX that I'm hoping to upgrade with an Auto JPN B20a engine from B20aTurbo.

General consensus is that the EFI upgrade is only for masochists.

Slammedaccord has a Weber (assume its a 32-36 whatever that means) I'm hoping to get from him minus the adaptor plate. Is this all I need + the plate and the Auto cable Fix?? Do I need to buy two of them or is there another model called a "dual or Twin" that I need to buy instead.

Ok, You may all laught now.

Thanks,
Simon

A Weber DGV 32/36 sounds a bit stock for your idea's! (since there was a mention of a turbo in thur) If i were u i'd go for the 38/38 its more for the modified or modified to be motor! and uses the same adapter plate from piercemanifolds.

The Weber DCOE 40 - 45 carb is a sidedraught carb, unlike the DGV being downdraught like ure standard carb. (I prefer the sidedraught because i find i have more idea's on how to get cold air to them)!
anyways, The DCOE's are basicly like having 4 carbs on your engine.
A DCOE carb is literaly two carbs in one. That is why it is called a twin!
On our cars we use a custom manifold and mount a pair of twin Webers =
(4 Carbs).
This modification seriously increases air and fuel flow.
The more air we get into an engine the more power we can get out from it!
The other advantage of the Weber conversion is it is actually so cheap in comparison to Fuel injection to build to a race specification.
I get my parts from junkyards nationwide. I am from the north-east where my family still live i lived in the north-west last year i'm currently living in Wales (south-west) and have a friend in London has the same interest. so i'm good for parts! exept air conditioning, bring me a Evaporater over in your suitcase :rofl:
Hope that helps

Civvy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SimonT

"Mike" Are you in Washington State or DC, would you care to share your experiences with me offline a I'm doing a B20a Conversion also??

Civvy, Going to be back in the Uk soon. Where do you source your parts from?? as I'm sure I'll be picking up lots of stuff for my B20a Conversion

Ok, I admit I'm a bit of a dense when it comes to Carbs.

When you guys talk about a duel Webber is that physically a single Carb or two units bolted together???

I have a stock 89 DX that I'm hoping to upgrade with an Auto JPN B20a engine from B20aTurbo.

General consensus is that the EFI upgrade is only for masochists.

Slammedaccord has a Weber (assume its a 32-36 whatever that means) I'm hoping to get from him minus the adaptor plate. Is this all I need + the plate and the Auto cable Fix?? Do I need to buy two of them or is there another model called a "dual or Twin" that I need to buy instead.

Ok, You may all laught now.

Thanks,
Simon

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hey simon, Im in washington state. Its a little far to drive to say "hey" but If you want to chat no problem. I got one of my mnotors from b20aturbo. Hes a smart guy and has treated me awful nice. Tell him I said high hell know me. I bought all his turbo gear for the JDM B20a.

As far as the weber conversion to the B20a I havent finished yet as funds havent allowed. If yopu have any questions feel free to PM me or send me an email. [email protected]. Make sure to say something about accords/cars/. Mike

Anyone knows what is the Euro B20A Compression ratio?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carotman

Anyone knows what is the Euro B20A Compression ratio?

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According to the Honda manual the compression ratio of the B20A2 is 9,5:1.
What is the ratio on the JDM B20A?

B20a Jdm 9.4:1

do carot brought up theoption of swapping the b18 dual carb manifold onto a jdm b20a with the b18 head also. Is this a possibility or just a pipe dream for a drunk car dude. Yes dude Im literally on my 28th henries and counting. Trying for my recordf. Its taken me 12 minutes to type this so be easy. Crap Im rambling. Crap Im typing what im talking. sorry dudes

A test at the race shop revealed that it is around 9.5 for the JDM version... I'm assuming 9.5, as it seems familiar and is the same compression of sister engines...

Where can I get a manifold for dual DCOE 45's... if it is in fact 4 carbs (2 in 1 each?) then can I use the same manifold and application plate and all of that as the 32/36 DGEV? I've been searching all around and can't figure it out.

And would it be best to take a Tig welder and actually make my own manifold, as far as flow and such? Or does the stock a20a carb manifold flow a whole lot (but just doesn't have the carb to flow it all?)

Thanks in advance for info....
peace

mykwikcoupe : nah carot don't take this option. I took it. this will be the difference between his b20a and mine. cause we have the same project in the same club accord quebec :p You don't have to put a b18 head on the b20a since the b18 manifold bolt pattern will fit on the b20a with minor modification.

Versanick: Best thing about putting dual DCOE or DCOM is to find a b18 dual carb manifold. But if you're unable to find one like my, take any a20a intake and weld a weber manifold(the parts where you bolt the weber. Do a port/polished and you're in business.

Putting a dual weber on your engine is 2 carburator, not 4 as you wrote. It's one carburator per 2 cylinders. you can even take the same a20a manifold, cut it and put 4 cbr600 carburator on if you want to get 4 carburator. But trust me, it will be REALLY hard to correctly configure all this thing.

Which B18A are you guys talking about.

I brought up the idea of using a 1st gen B20A shortblock with a 1st gen B18A head (the one that came on the Accord/Vigor) Those engines are already dual carbed but their intake manifold seems to be different from any other honda engine.

Yes this would work but you would be basicaly stuck with those stock carbs. I don't know if they are the same as other Honda carbs... didn't check and don't have time.

You can use any other later "standard" B series dual carb manifold on your B20A and re-drill the holes to match the A20A/1st gen B20A intake setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Civvy

The Weber DCOE 40 - 45 carb is a sidedraught carb, unlike the DGV being downdraught like ure standard carb. (I prefer the sidedraught because i find i have more idea's on how to get cold air to them)!
anyways, The DCOE's are basicly like having 4 carbs on your engine.
A DCOE carb is literaly two carbs in one. That is why it is called a twin!
On our cars we use a custom manifold and mount a pair of twin Webers =
(4 Carbs).

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Civvy seems to think that the DCOE setup is like having 4 carbs, as in being two in one... Should I find someplace to get a custom manifold, or is a port and polished a20a manifold really going to flow like I need? And also, should I try to match the porting of the end of the manifold and flange with my head port? I have a GUDE ported head and such, and I'm assuming that it's more effient and better flowing if I match the porting of the a20a manifold with the head port.

I also am having trouble finding where to buy the conversion plate and setup. Can I buy all the parts for the Weber 32/36 carbeurator conversion setup, but instead buy two 45 DCOE carbs and use it like that? Or does it not even work the same, being sidedraft instead of downdraft?

And is it _like_ having 4 carbs, or is it in fact just like only having 2 carbs, and Civvy's just really confusing me?

I've seen insane amounts of power coming from carb'd honda motors. There is a guy that does local circle track stuff that makes 322whp with his carb'd zc motor using weber carbs (revving to over 10,000rpm) and I would be happy with (nowhere near that kind of power).. I got hypereutectic pistons and they are coated (to eliminate the problem of piston speed at high rpm) and plan to rev to around 8500rpm...

dual 45DCOE carbs, I assume, with a good manifold, will be quite sufficient to make a lot of power? Bigger fuel injectors are expensive, computer upgrading is expensive, it's hard for me to convert to obd1, and setting it all up is a mess with fuel injection.... And there doesn't seem to be a huge power advantage over carb, unless a lot of money is spent.

Thanks for your help so far, fellas, it's really appreciated...
peace
paul

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Versanick

Civvy seems to think that the DCOE setup is like having 4 carbs, as in being two in one... Should I find someplace to get a custom manifold, or is a port and polished a20a manifold really going to flow like I need? And also, should I try to match the porting of the end of the manifold and flange with my head port? I have a GUDE ported head and such, and I'm assuming that it's more effient and better flowing if I match the porting of the a20a manifold with the head port.

I also am having trouble finding where to buy the conversion plate and setup. Can I buy all the parts for the Weber 32/36 carbeurator conversion setup, but instead buy two 45 DCOE carbs and use it like that? Or does it not even work the same, being sidedraft instead of downdraft?

And is it _like_ having 4 carbs, or is it in fact just like only having 2 carbs, and Civvy's just really confusing me?

I've seen insane amounts of power coming from carb'd honda motors. There is a guy that does local circle track stuff that makes 322whp with his carb'd zc motor using weber carbs (revving to over 10,000rpm) and I would be happy with (nowhere near that kind of power).. I got hypereutectic pistons and they are coated (to eliminate the problem of piston speed at high rpm) and plan to rev to around 8500rpm...

dual 45DCOE carbs, I assume, with a good manifold, will be quite sufficient to make a lot of power? Bigger fuel injectors are expensive, computer upgrading is expensive, it's hard for me to convert to obd1, and setting it all up is a mess with fuel injection.... And there doesn't seem to be a huge power advantage over carb, unless a lot of money is spent.

Thanks for your help so far, fellas, it's really appreciated...
peace
paul

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there seems to be some confusion regarding the style of Weber carbs you are talking about. The DGV series and DCOE series are completely different types of carbs. Nothing about setting them up will be the same except the gas! The 32/36 is a typical 2 barrel, progressive downdraft carb, very similar to the stock Honda carb. It adapts to the stock Honda manifold with a plate and retains many of the normal engine controls like choke, EGR and other vacuum controls. The DCOE's are sidedraft, 2 barrel, non-progressive and designed to essentially have one barrel devoted to each cylinder. They need a custom manifold and won't support most stock engine controls. They can be hard to tune and maintain, but when they work right, they can be very smooth and powerful.

You're going to want to spend some time getting educated on these things before making any decisions. Both setups can work well, but they are totally different beasts. And don't count out Fuel Injection. Converting to OBD1 is not hard with a B20A and if you really need bigger injectors, DSM 450cc injectors are cheap and easy to find. A full twin DCOE setup is going to cost a lot more than a decent FI setup.

Gregg

Dual side draft carb setup dcoe 45's
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member...95_22_full.jpg

Wow, et2.

My cost with my fuel injection is that I need a bigger pump, FPR, obd1 conversion, throttle body, intake manifold, and injectors. On a real lucky run, I'd wind up paying $800 for all of that.

If a carb setup costs even that much, I'd be happy to set it up. ET2, who in the world made that manifold.... and where can I meet them and when??!!

Or if you know someone who can make that, how much would they charge?! That's completely beautiful. I want.

(thanks for input gregg..._

peace
paul

Okay, on carbs.net the weber conversion for dual 45 DCOEs with manifold and everything (entire kit) runs around $1500. FIFTEEN HUNDRED DOLLARS??!~! are these people insane?

Wow. You can set up a home-made turbo with that kind of money. I'm appalled.

If that's what everything's going to cost anyway, fuel injection MIGHT be the way to go. A single 45mm DCOE carb from carbs.net costs just over $500 alone.. and if I can find a mani for $300, then I'm not doing as bad as I thought. Cables and everything else are minor (as well as vacuum stuff I can tap and do and such...)

One guy said that they custom made him a manifold for his dual DCOE 45's, and it costed about $250, but they'd charge a little more, as some extra work went into it. He gave them an a20 manifold, the aluminum pieces, and the plate or whatever where the carbs attach, so that they could put it together (essentially meaning he gave them the materials and it will cost them under $300 to make it altogether)...

Should I look on ebay for DCOE 45mm sidedraft carbs and parts for them, or should I find someplace to buy them new? I don't know what all I have to buy other than what comes in a complete carbeurator.. I just wish the entire conversion kit for the integras was less than $1500. If it were reasonable, that'd be the most sure bet, as the intake manifold flange would be the only problem (which is fixable with some cutting and reattaching with the a20 flange, as we've done with other intake manis)...

ugh
peace fellas
paul

That manifold fits the a18 head its around 250us, add a set of webers off ebay 250-500 depends on if you want 40's or 45's, what most guys do is use the et2 head ontop of the a20 bottom end, and it up's the compression. the site for the manifold is
http://www.autoquipgroup.co.uk/car-accessories.htm

Did you guys see this dudes setup? https://www.3geez.com/member.php?u=361

Be carefull of not including the "minor" parts/linkages/cables and setup in your budget, will proberbly need are only made by Weber. It can cost as much as another carb by the time your correctly jetted/running right.
I'd buy 2nd hand and get a rebuild kit! as long as you get a matching pair.
The manifold is available from www.piercemanifolds.com (acura integra B18).
I'm not sure autoquip ever made the b20 conversion manifold, i know they have done the a20/a18 in the past. i'm not sure they are still, and wasn't it autoquip new zealand?

If u wana do it even cheaper how about trying the Weber 38/38 downdraught DGV? it should be a gain over the stock F.I.
Get the conversion plate from www.piercemanifolds.com and use the ole stock a20 manifold.
Thing is. with a carb/carb(s), your the boss not a computer!
Computers are expensive and havoc when they go wrong.

Civvy

:pc:

get the carbs off e-bay, pairs are said to be better but I guess there is nothing wrong with buying two carbs seperately.

Or you can go IR style efi... REDLIN KIT

And don't forget that a 45 can be adapted to a DGV plate... you'll need both adapter's but at least you'll have the option of runinning some kind of dcoe carb or dcoe style injection setup... I don't know how well it will flow though, being so far away from the intake ports... may be better just to stick with a carb if you use this.

http://www.jameng.com/products/index.phtml?section=12

http://www.jameng.com/products/images/kc172.jpg


you should remove the center divider in the intake manifold if you use this...

:D

My impression is that the capabilities surrounding the DGV, for flow, aren't quite the same as a DCOE setup...

although one thing about the DCOE setup confuses me - that it faces the windshield. Wouldn't you think, that with any considerable acceleration, especially in lower gears (because of g-force), the flow would be slightly reduced if they're trying to pull air and fuel forward instead of backward? Or is that unavoidable, with them being sidedraft...

I can picture a DGV setup being inefficient in that air has to come in (from the sides of a filter, usually) then down through the carb, then back forward through each runner, then another bend down into the head...

A DCOE setup I'm imagining only has to go foward in through the carbeurator(s), the manifold moves it in generally the same direction, and then only one turn down(almost straight still though) into the head...

Guessing that the flow is reduced by having to go through several bends and turns, a DCOE setup is automatically more efficient...

I'm going to talk to some people with DCOE setups to ask them about their projects, what it costed them etc... I'm not diametrically opposed to a DGV setup like one with the adapter plate that a20a1 showed... but am I wrong about DCOE? Or does it really have significantly more potential than DGV?

THe other thing is that one DCOE 45 carb would be fine to go through a DGV conversoin like that, but running a dual 45 DCOE setup would require a custom manifold anyway... and at that rate, it may as well be set up like DCOE instead of DGV, right?

Or does that not make any sense? I just got my wisdom teeth out and I have lots of vicodin, so I'm feelin a little silly. But I hope the question is remotely clear...

thanks for the help guys
youre the mans
and womans if there are any
peace
paul

If cost is a huge factor than DGAS 38/38n would be the answer but if you can afford to go twin DCOE's than that's the best way forward, they are like having 4 carbs their just two joined together, each choke has it's own fuel supply, and has an individual idle jet, main jet, and butterfly. Yes Webers are expensive new i bought mine new but your guranteed less trouble in the long run, a good pair of ITB bodies will set u back $300 each maybe less secondhand but they wear too!! Most your cost on FI will be tank, fuel lines, pump, and regualtor as well as ECU and sensors.
I would go DCOE 45's B18 manifold moddified to fit or get one custom made works out about the same either way, then get a crank fired ignition setup stock will be poor. You can get DIY crank fired kits for ignition if your willing to do some soldering and don't mind using Ford parts!!
A Mugen B 20A used in Formula 3 racing back in late 80's in a RALT F302 used an ITB setup with a 26mm restrictor intake on the air box!! and still made 210bhp at 6K so just imagine what an unrestircted B20A with twin DCOE's with 40mm chokes would be like with some headwork, cams and exhaust would make a B 16 look very weak!!
My ET and A18/A20 engines push out from 180-200bhp+ with twin 45's max output is about 230-240bhp then you'll need ITB's with 50mm chokes and huge injectors or if you dare a pair of DCOE 50's or 55's!!! But you'll need another manifold as their bigger than 40's and 45's!!!
Good luck deciding either way stay away from stock carb, stock injection and weber 32/36 so if you got money twin 45's on a budget DGAS 38/38 simple as that really either way you gonna be getting more power than a B16!!
Have you got a part code and manufacturer name for those pistons really need a set oversize if possible got to build upto a few B20A's over the next year i got two ludes one with B20A other with race prepped A18/A20 hybrid and another which is Civvy's car he breaks them i fix them!!
BTW if anyone needs gasket info, or in U.K and need gaskets on any engine i have a friend who supplies AJUSA gaskets which are the best gasket kits in the world even better than Felpro except Felpro ET gaskets let you run a 2.0litre bore so they do have uses!! Especailly for you 2g accord guy's!!

forgot to mention if your worried about airflow you get either an airbox and run cold feed induction straight to it or better and cheaper make upa heat shield around the carbs leave the top open then get a hood scoop put on and that will ram the air straight into the DCOE's faster you go the better!!

Yeah... the race shop first got pistons for a b20a5, but the wristpins for our rods are 20mm instead of 21mm, so he had to send them back and get different ones... they're hypereutectic ones made by IPR or IRP, or whatever the company is... the rods are shot-peened and polished, with ARP rod bolts.. the bearings have been professionally massaged and the crank journals redone and the crank turned and polished... I got 9.0:1 instead of 9.5:1 pistons because I already had the; head shaved twice (from blowing head gasket(s)) and had the block decked, and to compensate for the change in compression... also not to go real high, in prep for a turbo sometime.

Thanks for the input though.. I can use a manifold from any b-series motor (since the spacing of the runners is the same), that is workable for the DCOE setup.. we can cut the runners and re-attach them to a a20/b20 intake manifold flange, and cut them at the proper angle for the DCOE carbs to run right... this will be fun I think.

Eep.

I'll figure it out.
Thank you everyone for the input. When the project gets underway I'll try to have pictures and such to post and let people know where I got things.

peace
paul

and another which is Civvy's car he breaks them i fix them!!

.....Fix them properly then!!!! :rice: :rofl:


Batty boy :lol:

....takes a deep breath......
BUMP

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roodoo2

....takes a deep breath......
BUMP

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Sounds like roodoo is getting a B20A. :)

So, is there a general idea or even any information regarding Weber DCOE performance vs a properly running factory EFI system? With my pending engine swap, I basically wanna know if it's worthwhile scabbing in all the EFI wiring, sensors and additional fuel handling equipment, or if I can make just as much power with a set of properly tuned Weber DCOE's, which have fascinated me since I found out that they existed?

Basically; for A20A3 or B20A, doesn't matter...

1. Can anyone prove that the DCOE's can compare powerwise to the factory EFI system?

2. Will the carbs be cheaper (keep in mind my swap will involve 20+ year old wiring, sensors and computer equipment, and I'm a machinist, I make my own DCOE manifold.)

the answer in your question is proved daily by the top drag cars. Carbs are easier to tune, sync, and get up to running than efi anyday. The only thing efi gives you that cannot be had by carbs is adjustable tuning in the rpm bandwidth. That is usually midly compensated by vacuum. Did you send off the axle yet? Thanks guy, Mike

everyone knows aftermarket carbs pwn the stock efi. but for us people that have to pay 6 dollars a gallon for our gas efi and its precise workings is good to get max fuel milage

the Honda EFI system if very versatile and easily tunable. I would never get a carb setup over an EFi if I was given the choice. If the car isn't EFI from the factory, I know itcan be a pain to convert. It all depends on what you do with the car.

DCOEs will need a slight retune depending on the weather conditions or altitude, something an EI setup won't

if your old school you might like carb better but now with all this technology you can make anything perform...i love how i can just plug in a laptop to my car and see how its running. plus your can tune the ecu for street and at the track you can tune it for high rpm use.

I think the carbs would give more usable power. The down side to them opposed to EFI would be a good tune in most all conditions, where the carbs you have to tune to certain conditions. A good thing to even the two up would be crank fired ignition (timing map programed and incorporated MAP sensor) with a few different timing maps programed in. I think any Weber will be finicky from one day to the next depending on temperature.
Don't forget the other multiple carb set ups, flat sides, SU's, heck even Holleys have metering blocks now that can be tuned into a small displacement powerplant. True the sidedrafts would be directly "injected" LOL

Another way to compensate would be metered propane auxilerys...(evil snicker)

Ha, propane and 14:1 compression.

I know that all else being equal, an EFI system should theoretically produce more power as it doesn't rely on an air restriction (venturi and boosters) to draw in fuel. EFI should be able to run at 0 manifold absolute pressure (maximum possible flow) and still make power, while a carb system needs the restriction and resulting pressure difference to make power. The end result of this situation is that the EFI system can ultimately flow more air while still adding the proper amount of fuel, and thus make more power.

I was simply curious if there were any significant known induction advantages to the Weber DCOE system versus the factory dual runner EFI intake.

Somebody want to answer this?

DCOE would be much more responsive, but would leave more emissions. Emmisions being the primary reason for widespread develpment of EFI.
IMO> Highest horsepower is not always the product of ideal stioch
IMO> the physics of having more fuel accessable in the general area, as with DCOE, it would seem a no brainer deciding which induction system is stronger.
As for refering to booster venturis as "restrictions" I disagree with the term usage, orifice would fit better. BV 's are like a straw and a tongue that bring the fuel food into the mouth at the rate most suitable for the throat. lol

The word arrangment of your question makes it hard to approach so only scientific data would safely answer it. If someone were to, ah hem clearing throat, make a half dozen DCOE manifolds that could be used on A or B20A, we would be able to proceed with proper subjects for gathering the data.


there are plenty of opinions on the quesiton in the following threads.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64365
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...fuel+injection