-
Cam + turbo
Would I be wasting time and money if I were to get a cam regrind then later down the road adding a turbo. Or would the cam regrind still be useful for when I decide to go turbo. Will the turbo need a specific grind or will any grind work.. Lets say I were to get the tri-flow from colt, then later I add a turbo. would that grind be compatible or would I need a specific turbo regrind.
I want to increase hp but don't have enough yet to get Sean's turbo kit. So I was going to get the cam regrind to make due for now. another concern is that I probably won't gain much benifit from the cam without headers so that would also need upgraded. But then when I go turbo, the header(and maybe cam) will be useless.....
What are some thoughts??? Should I just go the N/A route for now or save up for the turbo. In either case, I will be getting the gm ECu upgrade with DIS. But if the cam will give me noticable power with out header upgrade and if it is compatible with turbo, I will just get the cam for now then add turbo when i have the money..
any insight into this matter would be great.
Peace...
-
its better to use the stock cam. You could get a reground cam for now and just keep a stock one for when you get a turbo......
-
IMO a cam regrind is uselsss...well...not really but for your application it will be. Unless you are dumping 10 grand into your motor in forged internals....you should have no problem reaching the point of explosion with your engine with a proper turbo! The cam will allow a little better air flow....but hey....your packing so much in there anyway just adjust your boost pressure until your engine is(comfortably) maxed!
-
-
i would say, stay with stock engine for right now. save money for sean's turbo kit.
get the kit and start from there.
-
I have no idea. i just thought it was cool.
-
I want that thing....its scary!
-
Ok, thanks guys for the replies. that was very helpfull... I guess I will just hold off for now and save up money for the turbo.
..and yeah, I've always wondered what the heck that brown furry monster was.....looks like a character from poke mon or something :D
-
its called a domuken or something. its possible it could be from pokemon. although i hate pokemon, i think that little guy is AWESOME. :D
-
Turbo Camshaft ; Grind / No Grind ?
Alright, building an A20 for boost over the winter, want to get a cam for the pnp head and my cam gear. Now, my carbed beater has a regrind in it from colt, the mild-triflow. I however heard that the offset intake lobes are shitty for getting the head flowing nicely. Would I be better off with the stock EFI cam for now, until I get around to doing a regrind on that? Lets hear some opinions! I however seem to think the stock efi cam will be sufficent.
:dunno:
-
youre prolly best off with the stock efi cam and maybe a cam gear... whats the specs on that cam anyway?
-
Well I guess they made a special turbo grind for Sean, and prop will have the specs if you ask them. But the triflow is up in the air, some swear by it and others say it kills flow. But it depends on what is better, big flow numbers or better swirl?????????? They both have numbers that say they work, but they also are the exact opposites. To be flow sounds the best but with what the race teams are doing is focusing on swirl so I guess follow the leader with the biggest hp numbers
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin86
Well I guess they made a special turbo grind for Sean, and prop will have the specs if you ask them. But the triflow is up in the air, some swear by it and others say it kills flow. But it depends on what is better, big flow numbers or better swirl?????????? They both have numbers that say they work, but they also are the exact opposites. To be flow sounds the best but with what the race teams are doing is focusing on swirl so I guess follow the leader with the biggest hp numbers
You'll have to explain to me how you get swirl off a cam grind?
Most turbo or Sc cams are pretty close to stock. Maybe a little more lift on the exhuast side and a little more duration on the intake. Check the major cam places they have a lotta tech stuff on there web-sites.
wp
-
Why not try each one and see which works best?
But I have a question myself: would putting the same cam (colt cam, mild tri-flow, carb grind) into a stock a20a3 work fine, or will it screw up the FI timing?
-
no it wont screw up the timing if you installed it correctly. Yeah opening the valves differently like the triflow is good for low and mid range power but not peak hp... but my gripe is that there is too much duration and overlap for these to be used for a turbo car... but im not sure of the specs. Id say that a 242 degree cam with 400 lift would be a nice turbo cam... i was thinking about trying it myself.
-
-
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter
good find
Its a start I know its not for our engines but It gives some kinda idea.
That Web cams company might be a good place to try. They do hard welding so they arn't stuck with the limitations of the old cam and could grind you anything you can come up with. They advertise in SCC I think in the back and claim to have been around a while.
wp
-
The tri flow, by delaying the opening of one intake valve creates turbulence, aka swirl. It will slow the flow but would give a better air/fuel mix for more efficent combustion, so you loose some, gain some.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter
no it wont screw up the timing if you installed it correctly. Yeah opening the valves differently like the triflow is good for low and mid range power but not peak hp... but my gripe is that there is too much duration and overlap for these to be used for a turbo car... but im not sure of the specs. Id say that a 242 degree cam with 400 lift would be a nice turbo cam... i was thinking about trying it myself.
yeah regrinds its always a problem with over lap. You can't get more lift without more overlap.
wp
-
Not entirely true
What you want to do is increase the lobe center angle to decrease valve overlap
This can be acheived to some degree by a regrind.
or a weld to one face and grind down the other to increase the LCA and still maintain some lift.
Then there is always a totally new cam.
-
what were the specs on the mild delta grind? If i remember they looked pretty good for boost... not 100% sure tho
-
i always thought/heard the tri-flow from colt was the way to go, with the cam opening one intake valve first it pulls the air fuel mixture across the other valve then opening that one, with the pulling of the air its creates a swirl (like mentioned above) and the swirl then creates a better air/fel mixture, with a turbo arent you pretty interested in what the air/fuel is like,aha?
this is just what i was told, if im wrong plz let me know as i hate it when ppl talk shit about somthing they dont know and i would not like to be one myself
-
turbo cam
I have this cam from the turbo set up I was goin to do...
Prime INT 280° .392 Lift
SEC INT 268° .383 Lift
EX: 288° .394 Lift (advanced for turbo 2)
colt triflow stage 2
what do you guys think?
-
Seems like that is too high of a duriation for a turbo, where you get it made at?
-
colt cam.. it was made with the intensions of a higher rev limit... I have the spings/titanium retainers and the forged valves..
-
oh you still got that head, damn i need a new job
-
yea.. I have the head still, I just never got the crank knifed for the higher rev, or anything else. (pistons, rods)
-
yeah thats a really high duration cam... i really think youd start to lose power on anything over 272 duration on boost, plus you should have both valves open and close at the same time and have the same lift.
-
don't know, this is what colt cam recomended
-
for boost? It sounds like an N/A cam...
-
well having the valves open at different times helps create more swirl.
-
no clue.. lol
I just told them to make it for a high rev turbo app and thats what they gave me
-
yeah the swirl will give you some tq but youll loose some peak hp
-
must sell, need the money - first $100 takes it, new.. never installed - I will be putting in ebay in a week..
-
Re: work a cam?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89accordex4dr
hey i am thinkin about gettin my cam work and i dont want to change the factory carby or fuel pump, anyone hav a spec for cam lobes or is it not worth it,i want more power up top
The lobe lift is on here, just need to search for it. Here is some general info on picking a cam.
Picking a Cam
If a customer wants a hotter cam, choose wisely because the camshaft determines the engine's personality and power curve. Choosing the "right" cam for a particular application means taking into account how the vehicle will actually be driven, vehicle weight, gearing, type of transmission (manual or automatic), the engine's compression ratio, carburetion and cylinder heads. The best advice here is to follow the camshaft supplier's recommendations - and to install a complete camshaft kit that includes new lifters, pushrods, valve springs and retainers.
When you look through the various performance camshaft manufacturer's catalogs, you'll notice two things. The first is that there are many different cam grinds from which to choose. The more popular the engine (small block Chevy, for example), the greater the selection of cams that are offered. The other thing is that each grind is designed for a specific type of application, so follow the cam supplier's recommendations to the letter.
Performance cams typically have more lift and duration than a stock cam. The most common mistake that's made when choosing a performance grind is "over-camming" the engine. Too much lift and duration in an otherwise stock engine is a bad mismatch that may hurt performance more than it helps.
When comparing cams, the numbers tell the story. These include lift, duration, overlap, lobe separation and timing. The duration specs reveal the cam's potential for making power within a certain rpm range. Generally speaking, the longer the duration, the higher the rpm range where the cam delivers its power. Short-duration cams are good for low-speed torque and throttle response (especially in heavier vehicles and those with automatic transmissions), while long-duration cams are better for high-winding engines that make lots of top-end power.
Cams with up to 220° of duration (measured at 0.050" cam lift) are usually best for stock unmodified engines. Once you go beyond 220° of duration, intake vacuum starts to drop and idle quality suffers.
Another spec that affects driveability is the relative timing of the intake and exhaust valves. This can be expressed either as "valve overlap" (the time during which the intake and exhaust valves are both open) or "lobe separation" (the number of degrees or angle between the centerlines of the intake and exhaust lobes). Decreasing the lobe separation increases overlap, while increasing the separation decreases overlap. Most stock replacement cams with durations of less than 200° will have lobe separations of 112° to 114°. Higher duration cams for mid-range performance typically have 110° to 112° of lobe separation. With racing cams, you'll find lobe separations that range from 106° to 108°.
Overlap occurs when the intake valve starts to open before the exhaust valve has finished closing. Increasing overlap can be a desirable thing in a higher rpm performance application because the outgoing exhaust actually helps scavenge the cylinder to draw more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. But too much overlap at low rpm kills low-end torque and throttle response by excessively reducing intake vacuum.
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
boba.. I have a custom turbo cam.. if you are interested..
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
what are the specs on the cam wayne? i wish u had told me about this earlier lol i already bought teh 282 cam....
what can u tell me about it though?
are you saying u thrashed a stage 5 spec clutch? DAAAAAAAAAAAAYMN well i bought the clutch with built NA in mind... so i didnt figure it would hold all that much power under boost, but no sense buying another until i toast the spec. :)
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
TF 2 Turbo done May 8/2003
Prime INT 280° .392 Lift
SEC INT 268° .383 Lift
EX: 288° .394 Lift (advanced for turbo 2)
is the specs from colt cams.. and I thought I did mention it to you awhile back...
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
interesting... ill grab those specs and see if its something i could/should use...
you told me before it was built to make big topend power right? up to 8500?
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
yes.. with the turbo push the cam will power to 8500 great with the valve springs and stuff u got off me
-
Which camshaft regrind for boost?
Ok so i was thinking of getting one of my spare camshafts reground. But which regrind should i get??? Or would it seriously even be worth my time?? And also how do i get ahold of one of these companys.
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
Delta 272. Very much worthwile. Here is there #1-253-383-4152.
They are really close to me. It would be about $70 to regrind your cam. You pay shipping of course.
http://www.deltacam.com/
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
I have never delt with cam regrinds myself, but here is a scan from the book Maximum Boost about cams for turbo applications:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/359...tled8fb.th.png
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swap_File
hmm, ive always thought that stock would be best with turbo but wasnt sure. So i guess i should just stay with my stock one for now then.
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
may still want to try an adjustable cam gear though
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
i think a 272 grind might be a little too big for a turbo engine, remember you dont want big overlap. Somthing a little smaller might be better
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
yeah from everything i have read, stock cam is smartest, unless you get a cam built specifically for your turbo application (which delta might be able to do?) i have a 272 and a 282 cam, but im gonna run stock cam first, then try the 272 and see how the rollers react! :)
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
im very very interested to see a dyno chart of a 272 on boost compared to a stock cam. Im expecting a big difference but im not sure which way (i think the stock cam is gonna be better overall but who really knows)
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
yeah honestly i think stock cam would be best for boost too... but maybe a custom cam MADE for boost would show gains over a stock cam. :D
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
If you call Delta and tell them your specs, and what you are expecting to get from the cam, they will cut it however you want.
Those guys are awsome at Delta.
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cke
wtf, rollers?
Is there something you're keeping from us?
just referring to dyno! :)
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
we should look into a custom boost grind, chris... im thinking maybe 242 or 252 but an assload of lift?
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
maybe i will call them up sometime next week and pick their brains.... delta cam is so cheap i would be willing to try a couple different grinds (of course this doesnt matter until i get my turbo system installed)...
ps im considering AEM EMS... :( MS is seeming kind of ghetto, and i like the features of EMS. but not the price tag.... maybe ill roll SDS EFI like jason! heheh
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
call up Colt them are suppose to have the specs on a turbo grind for us, and or talk to delta and talk about your set up. Idealy a 272 would be the most duration you want for a turbo. The idea with a turbo is to have as little valve overlap ass possible, so less duration and more lift.
-
Re: Which camshaft regrind for boost?
from all the stuff ive been reading lately, maybe a 262-272 might work good also? Ive been seeing some high revving boosted b series guys make power with like Jun/skunk 2 stage 3 cams, more so than the specified turbo grinds by the same companies... so maybe im a little too conservative on cam size?
-
Re: Another engine rebuild thread... check it out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Tek
TF 2 Turbo done May 8/2003
Prime INT 280° .392 Lift
SEC INT 268° .383 Lift
EX: 288° .394 Lift (advanced for turbo 2)
is the specs from colt cams.. and I thought I did mention it to you awhile back...
Does "Advanced for turbo 2" mean they are cutting the exhaust lobe further from the intake lobe (Increased LCA "Lobe Center Angle"), making the exhaust open and close earlier, at the same time decreasing overlap that would normally be there with the regular Stage 2 N/A Triflow grind?
-
Re: Turbo Camshaft ; Grind / No Grind ?
im trying a gude cam for boost. Ill let you guys know. I think its a 252 grind with big lift
-
Re: Turbo Camshaft ; Grind / No Grind ?
hopefully ill get to try my delta 272 for boost. ill also try stock and tell you guys what the butt dyno tells me :D
this prolly wont be any time soon though *sigh*
-
Re: Turbo Camshaft ; Grind / No Grind ?
the butt dyno is gonna be very misleading comparing cams on boost
-
Re: Turbo Camshaft ; Grind / No Grind ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AccordEpicenter
the butt dyno is gonna be very misleading comparing cams on boost
well then a true dyno, and some track times :D
-
Re: Cam + turbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89accordlxi
Would I be wasting time and money if I were to get a cam regrind then later down the road adding a turbo. Or would the cam regrind still be useful for when I decide to go turbo. Will the turbo need a specific grind or will any grind work.. Lets say I were to get the tri-flow from colt, then later I add a turbo. would that grind be compatible or would I need a specific turbo regrind.
I want to increase hp but don't have enough yet to get Sean's turbo kit. So I was going to get the cam regrind to make due for now. another concern is that I probably won't gain much benifit from the cam without headers so that would also need upgraded. But then when I go turbo, the header(and maybe cam) will be useless.....
What are some thoughts??? Should I just go the N/A route for now or save up for the turbo. In either case, I will be getting the gm ECu upgrade with DIS. But if the cam will give me noticable power with out header upgrade and if it is compatible with turbo, I will just get the cam for now then add turbo when i have the money..
any insight into this matter would be great.
Peace...
hey what you want is the valve open right when the piston starts going down, and close just before it come up, but i cant find my manifold, do you know a company who can do it and ship it to me?:violin: i got a big turbo off a volvo and i want a manifold to use it with:rockon: i figure with the displacement theary, it should blow the crank right out .:rockon:
