F20B

I'm gonna do a B20A5 swap within this month since my A20 head is warped, I'm gonna fix it up, and run with it for a year or hopefully less, then I'm gonna save up and buy a F20B, Place Racing Inc. just told me that they dont have any swap mounts for that motor and mine, but they will make some if I like, it will cost more then the regular swap mounts for a B engine, but will be worth it.
F20B Specs: F20B 2.0 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1955 149 kW ?? '90-'93 Accord Si-R (JDM)

I only have one question, WTF is kW and how do I find out the hp and tq on this engine? JHP told me the Power is 200hp, but I dont know the TQ. This engine is also the same weight I belive as our A20A3 engines.

Any info you guys could help me with will be apretiated.

Does anyone know if the F20B FWD Trany will fit the F20C motor?
F20C Specs: F20C 2.0 16V DOHC VTEC PGM-FI 1997 240hp@8300rpm 153tq@7500rpm '00-'02 S2000

all right, lets get this shit strait.
first of all, B20A5 swap will not bolt in directly. it has different mounts. it has same mounts as b16a.
second of all, f20a is JDm specs engine and it has 150hp@6100 137lb-ft@5000
so before you desided to do any engine swap think twice before you do it.

when they DO make mounts for the F20B, just tell us here.

That will be fun.

I know its JDM, thats why I said it was (JDM), And I know what engine mounts I need, PRI is going to make them for me, and they are gonna help me out with everything else I need. I am going to swap the F20B into my new car about 5-6 months after I buy it, I'm not gonna do the B20A5 swap because I'm parting my car. I talked to JHP about buying the F20B from them, and how they sell it, it will be 200hp stock from the '98 Honda Accord SiR-T, not the one I just posted from the 90-93 Honda Accord SiR. If there is a better motor that is the same size as these motors (A20, B20, F20) Please let me know, the H22 is WAY to heavy, I dont want anything bigger then those engines, Maybe a B18 or B16, but I want to stand out, people are allready thinking of doing those swaps, I want to be different, I dont care if I have to save up 8grand for this swap, I'll do it.

The F20B is the SAAAAAAME size as the H22A.

They share alot of things.

F20B:
Overpriced, less hp than the H22A

lol @ carot! hehe... DAMN YOU, you burst my bubble!

The Honda Engines.PDF that I have says that the F20B is much lighter then the H22A, and the H22A and F20B hold the same power, unless you get one from a diff car, the H22A from the SiR Prelude, it has 210hp, and the F20B from the 98 Accord holds 200hp, and its 2.0 and not 2.2, I dont know now, your confusin me. This Honda Engines.PDF that this guy just sent me that has every engine Honda Made says that the F20B is a lighter engine.

did you look at the torque curve of both engines??

They might have the same HP, but I doubt about the Torque.

All you need to know to convert Horsepower and KW is that 1 hp is 746 W or (.746 KW)
so 1 KW is 1/.746 HP

No, thats what I'm tryin to find, I went to a few Import Chat Rooms to see if anyone knew or could tell me the difference between the H22A S Engine, and the F20B SiR-T Engine, Especialy in weight, because JHM told me that the F20B is lighter then the H22A. If it is as heavy as the H22A like you said, I'm gonna have to find another motor, because I want something that is different, Maybe a B18C5 would be good since nobody that I've seen yet has done that motor yet.

Well I'm glad to see you try and confirm some things. How much does your engine weigh, does anyone know a factual amount? I've never heard someone drop a factual figure. So how do you know for a fact that any given engine, especially a all aluminum vs cast iron one, is lighter or heavier? And are you really going to spend the big $$ to do this or are you just thinking out loud? What kind of numbers have you found out for a F20b, H22A or the B18c5 with transmissions? $$!!??

I do remember Justanothermike mentioning the shipping weight of H22A that openloop got and installed in their 4th gen, I thougt is was sorta heavy, IMO. But still can't believe it would weight more than our iron block engines, IMO.

Understand that it's possible that the place that told you that the F20B weighs less may be saying that, so they can push a motor that they make more profit on vs usual combo's. Profit drive can create some interesting facts in this world, so do verify.:wave:

a B with tranny is 300lbs
and H with tranny is 385.

i would say the F's are about 350ish

ok here is what i have dig up on F20B
1998 SIR or SIR-T accords had them.
they both have 11:1 compression.
both have 1997cc engine size.
but they have diff. HP outputt.
SIR model had 180hp@7000rpm 19.6kg*m@5500rpm(don't know how to get to Lb).
SIR-T model had 200@7200rpm 20kg*m@6600rpm.
the diff in horse power was because on SIR model the pistons traver 80mm and on SIR-T model they travel 88mm.
SIR-T model came with 5speed only. and SIR had 4 auto sport.
this is all have for now, i can't find how much it weight.
oh yeah here are the specs for H22 220hp@7200rpm 22.5kg*m@6500, piston travel 90.7mm, compression 11:1
and it looks like H22 and F20 had the same trans or they had the same final gear ratio 4.266

PS. just for kickers in '97 honda offered accord in 4 wheel drive mode. it had F20B engine, it was the same engine as in SIR-T except it had 9:1 compression, and it made 148HP.
i just thought it was cool.

Did I read that right you say honda made a JDM 4-wheel drive accord? Where did you read that? I find that one really hard to believe. What mechanics would it have used? Honda's 4wd parts bin was pretty slim at best in 97.

They started making it for the 98 model year ('97 Sept).

The Accord Wagon used an H23A engine mated with a AWD tranny.

I've never heard of the accord ever getting 4wd. In 98 the crv was the only 4wd product from honda that I'm aware of. For them to have 4wd mechanics for the accord platform in 98 doesn't add up. Maybe I just never read about it. Wasn't the only place the wagon was made in the US? If someone can point me to somewhere that would have info on a 4wd accord I'd love to read about it.

here is the link about 4wd accord but it is in russian you won't understand anyway.
http://www.auto.vl.ru/catalog/viewmo...?id=1997297&f='HONDA'&m='ACCORD'&t='E-CF5'&y=1997
oh yeah, it was available in japan only. or at least that what it looks like.

if the SIR has 80mm stroke and the SIR-T has an 88mm then they are not the same displacement :rolleyes:.

and i will bet most anything thats a typo and is 4WS

It's not a typo. Here's a link: http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...20vts_4wd.html
Most of it is in Japanese but you'll recognize the 4WD and the F20B and some of the other numbers listed.

Well, I'm kinda thinking outloud and also concidering it, I'm gonna think outloud for a few months about doing this swap, so that I can gain up the money, and knowledge about the right motor, I want a light, but powerful motor, and also be different, nobody that I can think of has done the F20B swap, I dont know if anyone has done the B18 swap yet for our car, but, I'm gonna save up about 5-6grand, and then I'll go about buying the right motor, I'm just going to get all the info that I need right now, so I can find out which is the right motor for me.
http://www.jdmhondaparts.com/engines/F20B-hydro_1.jpg
That is the sexy beast that I want. (Look as I use the word "Want"). It may not be what I'll buy in the end, but in the end I'll have enough money for the right motor, its up to me and you guys helpin me out on deciding the right motor.

Interesting yasu, from the tire size I gather it's not ment for performance so that kinda explains why I never ever read about it. Thanks, how can I read the text? Any site that I can use to translate?

How about the Altavista one??

A) Complete Engine.
NOTE: Complete Head, block, intake + exhaust manifolds, all sensors, distributor, injectors, alternator, starter, throttlebody, fuel rail, small bolts n' brackets etc., and any other extra parts like AC compressor, intake tube are free. If these extra/free parts are broken in any shape form or fashion, JHP.COM does not replace them.

B) ECU.
C) Transmission w/clutch components (assembled to engine).
D) Axles + Intermediate shaft.
E) Shift linkage.
F) Stock OEM engine mounts.

NOTE: Engine packages DO NOT come with bolt-in kits such as the HASport mount kit.

G) Engine harness.
NOTE: JDM engine harnesses are made for right-hand drive cars. It can not be used in a U.S. car, as far as plug n' play. RHD harnesses are only useful for their plugs and extra wiring.

Since this is a JDM engine, what other then the obvious will I need to get the car running and moving the right way? Will I need a special engine harness that will convert it from a RHD to a LHD? And what else will I need thats not listed in the above?

The ECU will be a pain in the ass. The harness will not work either.

Been there done that.

You'll need a P13 ECU with a OBD-1 H22A engine harness.

The OBD-2 Hondas have a special key that work with the corresponding ECU.

If you buy that engine with the ECU, make sure you have the key that comes with it. If not... you're screwed big time.

So, I'll need everything that I listed above, including the P13 ECU with a OBD-1 H22A engine harness and the keys and the keyslot/ignition that goes with those keys......right? JHP hasn't replied yet, I asked them the same question I'm asking you, and I told them whats up. If this works, I'll owe all you guys dinner :D

sweet free dinner.

Ok you seem serious enough about your swap, I was testing you a bit to be honest. :p :p :p

You will need the following:

F20 Engine
H22A Engine harness
P13 ECU

YOu will not need the key assembly.

however, if you get the F20 with it's matching ECU and key, it's not a problem. it can be done.

The problem with Honda's key system is that it's ECU dependent. The ECU will look for a key. The code is printed inside the key and the engine will not work without it.

My friend bought a H23A from an Accord SIR-Wagon. He had the ECU and everything but no key.

The only way to retreive the Key code is from Honda. Since that engine came from Japan, there is no way that we can get that code from Honda in North America.

They will not give us the code in Japan either. Security reasons prevent it. We have to get in person to the dealer... That's what he was told

He could have send the ECU to Japan tough.

He basicaly ised his OBD-1 90 Accord ENgine harness and added the necessary wires... You coud also do that if the H22A engine harness is not available.

The P13 ECU isn't a must either.

Any Vtec Ecu will be able to run that engine

The P72 or P13 will work

I'm soo glad you know what your talkin about, because you are making things easier on me, so I will need the Engine, any VTec ECU and the H22A engine harness? thats it just to get the engine to start from the key in the cockpit?

I have confidence in what your sayin, so I'm gonna trust you and do what your sayin cus you actualy know this stuff better then I do.

To make sure that you get everything right, you may want to contact a local shop that has done an F20 swap before (or at least some other kind of Honda swap). That way you can be sure that you won't be missing any parts. If you don't want them to install it, you can at least order the parts through them. That way, you can actually go visit them in person instead of getting a big runaround from an online seller. (much harder to ignore someone in person compared to online)

Umm, thats imposible, without me driving a few hundred miles to another state, there is no race shop left open in new mexico, the government shut them all down. They are trying to stop all Illigal Street racing once and for all, A race shop just opend up over here in Albuquerque, it was shut down a week later.

wtf ?
are there domestic shops ?

someone needs to sue the fuck out of somebody

Yes, there are still domestic race shops, but no more import shops, I thought I got lucky cause a new shop opened up not long ago (Strictly Performance) but it was just shut down, Special Effects Performance, Frizbees Performance, even a very big company that has a few shops across the us called St. Andre's Performance was shut down, the legislature is passing a bill allowing Government and APD to take whatever actions nessecary to stop Illigal Street Racing all together, they will let us race on a track, but you'll have to pay like 200 bucks to be on the premisis for like an hour, But I've seen less imports lately since all that crap is going on, I wanted to get a Licence Plate that said FUK GOV, but ofcource thats illigal, I wonder if GOV SUCS is illigal..........lol, but They won't stop me from racing, HELL NO!!! They will have to kill me to stop, because either way, I'm dead.

Wow, that's pretty extreme. It sounds very unconstitutional also, I doubt the government can even do that.

Well they have been, they got FBI and APD patroling the major race areas, all the import race shops were shut down, people in the domestic race cars dont race as much, unless a lonely import racer wants to act stupid and challenge one.

What about things in the engine compartment? What will I have to pull out to do this new motor? and what can I leave in for the new motor? I guess I can leave the ignition system in but I'll just upgrade it with the right one from MSD, atleast thats what I think I should do. I don't know about Cruize or anything else thats in there, there are 2 major pipes in the front of the engine, I know there is a throtle linkage and a clutch linkage, and I think there's 2 for the shifter. What else do I need to look at and plan? I allready got an Idea of what I need to get the engine in the car and the engine able to move the car and run good, but will the Linkage for everything strap right onto this new motor? like the shifter, the clutch, and the tb? or will I have to get this from that car too? Only thing I'm worried about is that and things like performance parts, Headers, Intake Manifold mainly, I'm gonna look up some places for a new Fuel Rail for it and I'm gonna throw on some bad ass Injectors, but hell 200hp stock will be HELLA TIGHT in a 3G, I'll mainly add those things, and deck the engine out for looks.

Well, which part of the ignition system are you talking about here? 1/2 of it will be removed with the old engine anyhow.

About the cables, if the transmission on the F20B uses a hydraulic clutch then some work will have to be done, since the Accords don't have that. As for the gearshift, I think you'll also need the correct shift arm/rod and torque rods, since the tranny will be different.

I think the two pipes you are talking about are coolant hoses. Those will also need replacing (as well as all of the other coolant hoses) unless they are long enough for the new block.

Quote:

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Originally posted by MSIAccord_LXi
...they will let us race on a track, but you'll have to pay like 200 bucks to be on the premisis for like an hour...

---

Wow the tracks in your city must lose a lot of business, because if it costs that much they will get no patronage. The Sacramento Raceway dragstrip only costs $15 to register for the whole day, and that's from 4:30pm - 10:00pm.

Fucking JDM Honda Parts has not replied to my email, I thought the clutch on our cars was hydraulic, and why would I have to swap out the cables and shit? I'm gonna look more into it, they sell the engine, so they MUST have swap kits for it that will be universal for shit like that, but What are all these parts your talking about?

Ohh, and I'm gonna replace the entire ignition system with an MSD Ignition system, I belive the H22 Ignition System from MSD works on this engine if I'm gettin what everyone is tellin me correct. If JHP's would fucking reply and help me out, this would be a hell of alot easier, I gotta learn and figure out EVERYTHING I will need within 6 months, think I got enough time to get this all correct?

Our clutch is cable.
Good luck

I heard swaping Hydraulic to Cable isn't hard, and it is suposedly easy to hybrid our cars for a hydraulic, I think the place that has the cheap PRi Swap Mounts has the kit to change our Cable Clutch Setups, HYDRAULIC READY.I think..............

I think this is going to be easy if my facts are correct. Read Next Page

I am going to buy one of these 2 engines, I will start a poll in about 6 months when its time to spend money on which one you guys think I should get...
http://www.jdmhondaparts.com/engines/F20B_1.jpghttp://www.jdmhondaparts.com/engines/H22A-R.jpg
• Engine packages come with the following parts...

A) Complete Engine.
NOTE: Complete Head, block, intake + exhaust manifolds, all sensors, distributor, injectors, alternator, starter, throttlebody, fuel rail, small bolts n' brackets etc., and any other extra parts like AC compressor, intake tube are free. If these extra/free parts are broken in any shape form or fashion, JHP.COM does not replace them.

B) ECU.
C) Transmission w/clutch components (assembled to engine).
D) Axles + Intermediate shaft.
E) Shift linkage.
F) Stock OEM engine mounts.

NOTE: Engine packages DO NOT come with bolt-in kits such as the HASport mount kit.

G) Engine harness.
NOTE: JDM engine harnesses are made for right-hand drive cars. It can not be used in a U.S. car, as far as plug n' play. RHD harnesses are only useful for their plugs and extra wiring.

• Engines have approx. 20-60,000 KM depending on the engine's manufactured year, purchased.

• Any extra/free parts that come with an engine such as an A/C compressor, power steering pump, etc., are not replaceable if found broken or not working. This rule applies to any sensors found broken also.

• Engine packages have a start-up warranty. This means we guarantee the engine will start up with no problems, if you have everything plugged in, wired up, and working correctly.


• Engines are sold in AS-IS condition. No refunds or exchanges.

I was understanding things, but now I got confused...carotman
, Since this engine package comes with the F20B's ECU, Do I use this ECU, or do I still buy the other ECU you told me to get? And The other thing is...It says it includes a Transmission with clutch components and Shift Linkage, and Stock OEM Engine Mounts, Can I use all these things that are on the list there for my car? Or will I need to replace any of those things with something different? If not.....WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO:flipa:

Hmm , looking at the specs I'd get the H22A for it's torque and standard LSD What's the price differance between them?

Only $600, the F20B is $4,000, and the H22A is $4,600.

Whoa, are you serious!?!
I can get those engines for $1000 cheaper (go family discount!)

:O For reals man? Think you could get me that discount if I were to show up and hand you lets say........$1500 instead of $1000??? :D

I'm pretty sure I never told you what ECU to use.....I'm not an expert with all the OBD I and II stuff. Carot would be the one to ask.

Sorry Yasu, I meant carotman, I keep gettin confused on who's who because I notice the 3Geez Moderator, and I dont take the time to process that all the moderators have that. So I just asumed it was you since I notice it more on your name. But That was directed towards carotman about the ECU.

Well, aby OBD-2 ECU will have the Anti-theft device.

You absolutely need the corresponding key to bypass the system. Those shops don'T sell the key, nor will they help you getting the correct one.

2 options are left

1- get an USDM H22A/B18C ECU with the corresponding key
2- get a OBD-1 ECU and change the wire harness.

The fun thing with OBD-1 is that you can chip the ECU..... not porrible with the ODB-2.....

So they are going to send me an ECU that will REQUIRE the coresponding key? I don't know why they will do that since they are selling you an engine and all the things nessecary to make it start, except for the key. So that is the only thing I'm gonna have to replace? is the ECU, if thats what your tellin me, I'll listen to you and get the OBD-1 since you said I can chip it :D

I've been reading up alot and the F20B is almost Identical to the H22A, except for the .2L + on the H22A, I still don't know weight difference, but I think I will be goin with the H22A, there won't be any problem with the F20B because things like HEaders and intake manifolds from the H22A bolt right onto the F20B.

A few people said that doing the H22A Swap will be a bitch because its not a direct bolt in like the B20A, but whats funny, The H22A 'IS' a direct bolt in for the 94 accord, and PRI makes engine mounts for OUR CARS that will bolt in the H22A, they were right about being expencive tho. Bolting in will be no problem, getting it to run will probably be the problem, but its something I'm willing to run for, I will not start the engine until I'm 100% positive that if the engine starts, everything will work right, like moving the car and the transmission and shifter, if I know that these things will work perfect only if the engine will run, then I'll start it, HEHE Just because they got a START UP warranty.

When did PR start making H22 mount kits??

My Bad, I got confused on something.

If PRI doesn't make mounts..... that'll be a bitch to put the engine there

I think he meant that PRI does H22a > Civic swap mounts, and we get Bseries mounts, so double mounting these mounts. Sounds dangerous.

Well, I'm sure PRi won't mind making mounts if I were to bring my car in for an H22/F20 engine, Might cost extra, but Its worth it.

I mean, Place Racing Inc. Specializes In making B16, B17, B18, H22/F20 Mount kits for all sorts of Honda Vehicles, they seem to be expanding thier buisness as you can tell when you go to www.PlaceRacing.com , So I'm sure if I bring my car to them with the engine, they can make the mounts. Now I wouldn't actualy bring them my car, I'd most likely leave my brothers 87 LXi with them since I'll need my car for work, but I'll bring them the 87 Accord, the engine I buy, and have them make Engine Swap Mount Kits for the 1986-1989 Honda Accords For H22A/F20B engines, I've noticed from like Yasu and a few other people that there will be discount on multiple orders of the same thing, Maybe at that time I could gather up a few people from here that want to do a H22A swap, and get a few orders going to try and get discount for all of us. But thats just my thoughts, I'll keep emailing PRi, and if they don't reply, I'll call them and ask them if it is posible for them to/and how much it will be to make that mount kit for our car.