EK1 Rebuild Progress

Ok, so I'm rebuilding an EK1 engine. On top of the block is going a Canadian EL1 head. It's the 1.6l head with no CVCC. Should bump compression and flow a bit better.

Just finished taking apart the engine completely today. The piston rings came out in about 1,000 pieces. The cylinder walls were pretty scored up, and a few bearings had some wear, but the crank looks like it's in fantastic shape. The pistons also have some wear on the front and back.

HOWEVER. I found this steal of a deal on eBay. Reman'd crank with a full matching set of bearings. I figure since I gotta buy the bearings anyways, why not buy with a matching crank. If it sucks, I'll ship it back and stop payment with PayPal if they wanna test me.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...9758&rd=1&rd=1

Also, since I'm getting the cylinders bored out, I'm going to see what kind of higher compression pistons I can order for this engine. I want to just bump it up a notch or two. I think that the bottom end in these cars are strong if done right, so the compression shouldn't be a problem.

Anyways, getting the head back from the shop tomorrow all like new. Been shaved quite a bit, plus had the valves reground and new valve seals installed. Should be good as new when I get it back. Had the same guys do it who did the head in my '95 Civic. Since that Civic is still running strong, I figured I can't go wrong with these guys...

Tomorrow, I'm going to take the block down and the rods and have him clean the rods all up and install the pistons on them. He's also going to bore out the block, and make sure everything is nice and straight. Then when I get all that stuff back, the assembley will begin!

Yeah, that crank looks tight and the bearings should fit perfectly. How much did the shop take off the head? I thought I heard that you can only shave so much off the head's surface. I'm sure the machine shop know what's up though. Not too worry, though, because those heads are plentiful!! Seriously, man, you're on the right track. I hope that crank is solid and gets it done. When I blew the head gasket on my 78, the bearings looked great and the crank was fine. Don't overlook thrust washers, either. That whip is fixin' to be so sweet.

So here's some pics I thought you guys might like to see. Just uploaded them to photobucket since I've been a slaXor.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2165.jpg
Pile of broken piston rings, and you can see the groove on the surface where the seal rides. Probably leaked a touch.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2169.jpg
Some wear on the sides of the pistons.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2171.jpg
Here's the sealing surface behind the crank pulley. As you can see, it's pretty screwed up too. Nice groove there. It's a shame too because all of the crank journals are in such nice shape.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2173.jpg
Here's a scored cylinder wall. That's why I'm getting her bored out.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2174.jpg
Here's another cylinder.


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2172.jpg
The whole set taken apart! Everything's been stamped accordingly. So we know where it all goes back together.


All of the walls looking like this, in addition to the rings all being broken only lead me to think one logical thing... It looks to me like the engine sat for some time. It probably happened after the head gasket blew and moisture got into the cylinders. The rings probably corroded to the cylinder walls and broke into pieces when the engine was turned over. They then scored up the walls like they did, seeing as how they were no longer seated properly.

Nice! Keep us updated.

Man, you did it right on! That all looks really familiar since mine looked very similar to what you pulled out. I would try to find a new oil pump or at least the screen and gasket. Were you able to start that car when you bought it? It's amazing how it looks so rough now, but it is so reusable. The machine shop should be able to work it over and get you back to like new! Keep up the good work.

Thanks guys!

Yeah it started up and ran. That's how I got it home. Just hopped in and drove it. It smoked pretty bad, but seemed to run okay. It felt very gutless, but then I found out that the secondary on the carb never got opened and was corroded shut. So it probably still would have had all its power, had the people before me actually stepped on it a little bit once in a while.

Thats another thing with Hondas. I truly believe that they need to be rapped out to like 5-6k every once in a while. I don't think running them at low RPM thier entire life is good for them. Honda engines kinda have this spirit of being high-revving motors, building all their power up there. I'm not saying run it hard all the time, but once in a while I give my car a good pull off the line. It's still running with 280,000 miles now.

Yep, you have to rev them up from time to time. They idle so low and run at low RPM that they need their throats cleared from time to time. My mom owned a boatload of crappy GM stuff in the 70's and they told her that carbed cars need to be run at like 80 MPH to clear out the buildup. Actually, not bad advice. Too bad they could never actually fix ANYTHING wrong with those cars. Don't beat the crap out of your poor old Honda, but work it out from time to time. Sitting for long amounts of time will cause your carb to rust and run rough. Make sure your cooling system is tight before you wind her up though...

Not looking forward to doing this on my Z360.
It's seized after sitting 8 years with water in the bore from it's headgasket & I'm about to pull it out.
At least theres only 2 cylinders involved, though they'd have to work HARD all the time, doubt there'd be the option of not revving with 36hp deliverd at 8.5K -at least it only weighs 530kg!
Never had to delve into my Honda engines beyond removing heads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 79cord

Not looking forward to doing this on my Z360.
It's seized after sitting 8 years with water in the bore from it's headgasket & I'm about to pull it out.
At least theres only 2 cylinders involved, though they'd have to work HARD all the time, doubt there'd be the option of not revving with 36hp deliverd at 8.5K -at least it only weighs 530kg!
Never had to delve into my Honda engines beyond removing heads.

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I think you'll be surprised at how easy it really is to do. I sure was. You're lucky you've only got 2 cylinders that you have to work with. :) That makes sorting out all the parts that much easier. Just make sure you mark the orientation of the parts, and where they came out of the block.

Thats very cool that you've got some of the vintage Honda's. I'd love to find one of them around here. I want an S600 convertible so bad.

Looking good. I don't know the deminsions of the pistons, seems like you could find some to specs after you bore it out. (as long as the wrist pin to top of the piston is the same on the measurments)

Edit- And of corse the wrist pin is the same on specs.

I might not be looking forward to doing my Z360 engine but I'm terrified of the S600 engine.

Aside from the fact that I received it in a million pieces it definately isn't healthy and I know it's missing pistons. At least I got a w/shop manual with it !
Naturally its DOHC design with timing chain & shim valve-adjustment wouldn't help, & if people complain about their carburettor...imagine having four...& it has to rev to 9.5K.
But the head also looks badly corroded -which clever people have filled with epoxy, and the combustion chambers have been damaged by debris. Added to this Honda designed parts that bolt to the frt of the engine to both cylinder head & block -precluding much machining between the two.

Down below, the heavily balanced crankshaft is actually a 'built-up' assembly, assembled around its 3 main needle-roller bearings (for low friction), and its one piece connecting rods (for strength) -also on needle-roller bearings. Its not designed for disassembly and the Honda manual recommends replacement rather than service on this item -good luck....& mine has some scoring on one end...definately a job for experts -if such can be found- so I'll delay that project untill a few others are out of the way.

At least my Z360 is one of the last so it's positively normal with plain bearings water-cooling and the modern FWD layout. The earlier Z/N 360/600 air-cooled twins also ran a 'built-up' crank & roller bearings, but with the gearbox built into the crankcase using chains to transfer power from the crankshaft to g/box mainshaft -not that the layout looks all bad -doing a clutch looks like a 15 minute operation -in the car.

Have you posted up photos comparing the EL & EK heads?
I know a lot of people are curious to see the differences, especially since they seem to have shared the same basic castings -before Honda started machining them.
Not that it matters here in Aust. We only ever received the Non-CVCC EJ & EL engines from Honda -aside from a rare few privately imported cars/engines to create confusion.

Man that does sound like a nightmare. I bet finding parts for that car is seriously difficult. There's gotta be a classic Japanese car club or something like that who could help out with it. Gearbox in the crankcase is nuts! I thought working on the 81 was hard. Trying to scavenge for parts and everything.

I actually just got the head back a couple hours ago. Man that bad boy is so clean you could eat off of it. I'll take pictures when I get home and put the EK head next to it.

The machinist said the head should flow really nicely. He said he is always amazed at the design of the Honda heads. About all you'd really need to do is maybe a mild polish on these heads for some better flow. Pretty cool for 1981 econo-car technology.

UPDATE:

Got my new crankshaft kit in the mail today. Looks great! Now as soon as I get the block back sometime this week, I can actually start piecing it together!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2205.jpg

Edit- Ohh, had to re-read this thread. That is reman crank (oops)

Unfortunately this is a bit of a diversion from the Thread topic but anyway...

I've started on the Z360 :
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2051977/3

Hope you've almost recovered from the cylinder-head setback.

Man thosse Z360 pics are pretty sweet. Looks like a regular Honda engine but with only 2 cylinders! Pretty cool.

Here's an update from me. Got the block back from the machine shop. Looks nice and pretty. Bored .030, decked, and new pistons and wristpins.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2223.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2222.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2221.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2220.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2219.jpg

Ready to start building the bottom end this week.

good stuff. man i wish i had money i have an engine waiting to go together lol

wow thats hot

lol yours looks naked.....paint it or something...anyways looks hot....you better dyno it after its broken in

oh yes, It's going to get painted. I'm going to do it in a dark orange / goldish color. Should compliment the red color very well, and be kinda different. :)

Looking killer guy, must got some good knowledge on what & how to do it right. Keep up the killer work. (gear head here)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2ndGenGuy

Man thosse Z360 pics are pretty sweet. Looks like a regular Honda engine but with only 2 cylinders! Pretty cool.

Here's an update from me. Got the block back from the machine shop. Looks nice and pretty. Bored .030, decked, and new pistons and wristpins.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2223.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2222.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2221.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2220.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/IMG_2219.jpg

Ready to start building the bottom end this week.

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Now that's what I'm talking bout! That thing looks new, which is exactly how it should look! How much were your pistons, rings, and pins? Are they just standard OEM spec. type? Did you just get them at the machine shop? Where are you getting your bearings, gaskets, belts, etc? I think you can get an engine rebuild kit that has all that stuff, but I dunno about an 81 Accord. I bet the guys at that shop hadn't seen a block like that in forever! Keep up the attention to detail because one flaw in the slaw and it will be a major setback. Man, that looks yummay.

They charged me $370 for all the work and the pistons. I think the block looks so clean because it's been painted. But it does look really good. I don't think any amount of cleaning would have made it look perfect, so the paint does look fantastic. The machined surfaces are beautiful too.

The pistons are OEM-style but sized +0.030. As far as bearings go, they came with that new crank, and are supposed to be spec'd to it. I'll double check it, of course. I wanted to find slightly higher compression ones, but nobody makes them. Custom pistons were out of the question.

Gaskets and belts are probably going to be fun. I'll be driving all over town trying to find them. Well, I guess other than the timing belt, there's only one other belt, the alternator. The hatch isn't exactly feature filled with A/C and power steering. :D

looks like it was sandblasted. Gotta pull ALL of the oil gallery plugs out and scrub the galleries clean, or the bearings will get it. Made that mistake first time around with the 22R, found some grit in the bearings. Got'r clean the second time round though. Also, any shit on the backside of the bearings will ruin them. Just because parts came new out of the box doesn't mean they're clean. My mains were covered in bits of excess babbit material front and back, and that's why I wash every part in brakekleen and dry it with compressed air right before I install it.

Oh hell yeah, every single part going in this motor is going to get incredibly clean. The machinist has a big solvent machine that he runs all of his parts through. It's huge, like a giant dishwasher. There's a rack in the middle and jets all over the place, and a dunk tank too. It's a pretty badass setup. But yeah nonetheless, it's getting the crap scrubbed out of it. I don't want any little tiny dirt specs to cost me any money. I don't mind screwing up an experiment like I did with the head, that's learning. But dirt ruining a bearing would just piss me off.

I didn't think they used sand anymore on blocks because of the reason you mentioned. I thought it was always glass beadsthat machinists use nowadays. In any case, better safe than sorry. So, a brake cleaning is definitely in order. That whip is going to be so smooth when you git er all done.

Guyhatesmycar is correct with the machining, when you get the block back from the machine shop. YOU need to clean the piston bores with soapy water & so forth with the block, then use BrakeKleen on the cylinder bores untill there is no evidence of fine metal particals. Cleaning is so important in a good rebuild outcome, along with good & accurate blueprinting. ;)

Oh no I agree. I for sure will be cleaning it myself. All I was saying is that it wasn't sandblasted. I'm sure under that coat of paint is a greasey-looking iron block.

I think they probably hot tanked your block. That gets the grime and crap off the metal, but the block itself may still be discolored and all. They have some industrial shit at the machine shop to clean your engine, no matter how filthy the blcok is. What shape are the oil pan and valve cover in cosmetic-wise??

Ddude is right. Even after a hone, the cylinders have to be washed out. I prefer to flip the block upside down and flush with brakekleen until it runs clear from each pot. Then test by wiping each cylinder with a white cloth, there should be no trace of residue left. Remember to oil all machined surfaces for assembly or if they are being left for awhile.

Glass bead is used because sand can cause silicosis. strange, isn't glass just vitrified silica?

Update bitches. I finally began assembling this engine. Last night I cleaned the crap out of everything. Cleaned all the oil passages, which by the way were freakin dirty as hell even after getting them back from the machine shop.

Man, I spent all day reading stuff and checking clearances. It was definitely a learning experience.

Basically, I got all the crank beariings in and cleaned and torqued down. Then I started checking all the rod bearing clearances with plastigauge. Turns out I think that the very last freakin bearings are not tight enough. I'm going to post another thread on this, anywho here are the pics. As soon as I get the right bearing for the last rod, the bottom end will be done.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2296.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2297.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2298.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2299.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2305.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...d/img_2309.jpg

Looking good!

Now i need you to come down and do that to my LX

Teh hotness. Looks great!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cheeseburger

wow thats hot

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man is this guy smart:)

Hum John That Looks Very Familer For Some Reason. What Shop Did The Work?

Haha, yeah thats almost the same motor that's in your car. I had a local shop near downtwon do the work (don't wanna talk shit about them, they're nice guys). But they dropped the ball on another project of mine, so I'm taking the remainder to Britco Racing Engines down in Chehalis or Centraia, one of those places.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by forrest89sei

Looking good!
Now i need you to come down and do that to my EL1

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x2 & fixed

:D

Oh wow. I guess I never updated this thread and told you guys what happened. I bought that crank kit off eGay for $100. It came with a crank and +0.25 oversized bearings. Turns out that when I put in the Plastigauge, it showed that the crank journals are all tapered, and sized wrong. Some of the clearances are too tight, and some too loose. I still haven't gotten one of my cranks into the shop to get turned and re-hardened. Just been busy with lots of other things. Goal is to have this puppy running at the end of September!