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Guys I can't take it...this car is going be a very pain in the ass....
Now car goes on 3 cilynder. I don't know what'ts going on. Exactly cylinder number 2 doesn't work at all. I've checked spark plug and was OK, anyway I change it but not working. I' ve change spark plug cable but not working...any idea? Distributor gone? or maybe valves?
I'm going to give death on this car....:squint:
Distributor cap. Theres a good chance that the prong for cylinder two is either shot or completely fell off.
I thought it as well but I make a spark test...At idle I make touch spark plug cable on the upper pin of spark plug and I hear a clicking sound...should be spark sound, so there is current from distributor. I don't know if enough for working cylinder N.2
I'm definitely sad cause I think is something related to valves...
This is the stor:. my dad drove this morning car, and for him car went more fast then usual, more responsive. He say as press acc pedal car accelerated very fast. Smoke was very lower then normal ( see my engine burning thread). At certain point he hear a crack sound and car went to 3 cylinder....
Now this is situation:
-car start more quickly then before
-car smoke very lower then before
-idle is 2-300 rpm higher then before
-car doesn't leak oil anymore from "blow by case" hose
-the sad news.... car goes on 3 cylinder.
I very suspect valves, because some of u guys told me guide valves and seal worn out (white/blue smoke cause)...but I don't thought this is going to happends...... :(
have you tired adjusting your vales?
Honda delaer make it about 1 month ago......could they make wrong work??Quote:
Originally Posted by MessyHonda
You can pull the valve cover and look at the rocker arms and the valve tips to see whats up. It could be a broken valve spring. From what you have been telling us it does sound like a valve got stuck in its guide for a second when the motor was running and now the valve is bent. Once the head of the valve is bent it does not seat correctly and you have low or 0 compression.
You can pull that spark plug and put your finger over the hole to see if it has compression when the motor turns over. There is a tools also that is called a "Compression tester" that usues a guage to give you a reading in PSI.
wp
Ok. Tomorrow I'll give it a try!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
Ok, Here some news.
-I pull out valve cover and apparentely nothing is bad, but I'm not a expert....
-I perform "home made" compression test: pull out spark plug and put finger inside then turn over engine: there is a good pressure of air trhough hole so...this should mean there is compression?
-The spark plug now is WET and dark while yesterday was completely DRY....
Then my next step...I want change all spark plug with a good ones...
Any tips?
If valves are ok I'll make a party tonight :)
With a fresh new spark plug cylinder N.2 give a small contribute, cause if I disconnect spark plug cable idle drop a little. After few 30 seconds-1 minute, car run more rough and if I disconnect spark plug cable nothing happens, so car very turn on 3 cylinders again....at this point checking spark plug and this is completely WET but not dirty....
Tomorrow I'll take car on a mechanic...
But I think to put this car on death, cause I suspect a not easy trouble....
What does the "WET" smell like?
mmm it doesn't really smell like something. I don't know if was oil or gas...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz
The sure is go to dry fast, just blow it 2-3 times and spark plug become dry again. I think (hope) was gas even spark plug was not dark, it remains clear: wet but still clear not dirty-dark.
sounds like ur not getting spark
if the body is not rusted find another motor and swap it save yea loads of money vs buying a new car...
thats if the motor is screwed... but aww have you don't compression tests?
I took car on the mechanic. He say spark is OK, He checked distributor and stuff. Compression test is OK, so he say valves are OK.
Now this issue is a mistery... I run car fore some miles, if I pass 3000rpm car goes on 4 cylinder......and if I've check spark plu is DRY and well colored. Otherwise If I still on idle or under 2500 rpm about, car goes on 3 cylinder and spark going to be WET.....
Mechanic say, maybe gas not arrive very well on that cylinder or air infiltration trough IN mainfold....
bad injector?
It's a carburator A18A JDM...maybe should I post in CARB section?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratani
Compression test was good? do you have the number he gave you? A good number would be 150 psi or something close to that. If the compression is good then that is a good thing it means the motor is OK.
What do your other spark plugs look like? You might want to swap the plugs around to prove that it is just not a defective plug.
This is a guess but you still need to check your PVC valve or find it. If it is closeset to the number 2 intake runner it might be the problem.
wp
Oh man! U gave me a nice tip and remember me something very important too!! A little blu smoke come out from blow by case, I can't remember this before!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
Also I've found PVC valve and is on the intake mainfold, just above N.2 cylinder, easy to reach. I'll post u a picture. you'll notice there's a "U" hose, the left side of this hose, there is PVC valve (violet mark on picture, is on air suction valve, but behind this there is PVC) and just above N.2 cylinder (green mark on picture, the one on the bottom of picture :) )...The view of PCV is cover by air suction valve, so u'll view only right side of "U" hose (green mark on picture)
...and yes I've checked now number on spark plug cable and is 3 not 2 so I must correct me, it's not N.2 cylinder but N.3 cylinder doesn't works, bottom green mark on picture, and thi is the nearest cylinder to PVC just above it....
Here picture
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5...m0663rcug5.jpg
ZOOM:
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7...m0663rcpw6.jpg
Could be this the problem?
For spark plug question: Yes I've already swapped and changed in any combination spark plug and is the same. I' ve change spark plug cable from a D16 and it's the same.
How is the distributor cap and rotor button?
Have a look inside the distributor under the cap and make sure there is not a lot of oil in there, should be no oil actually.
When you took the valve cover off, did you see if the number 3 (2 intake valves, one exhaust valve per cyl.) rocker action looked normal? that and a real compression test would rule out a broken or bad cam.
And the pvc system should be examined anyway regardless if that is the problem.
I wonder what that crack sound was you father heard?
Mechainc checked distribuor: pull out distributor cap and check anything (it takes about 10-15 minutes), and he says all ok. i don't know about oil. Compression test with specific tool was OKQuote:
Originally Posted by roodoo2
I'v tried 2 mechanic and both says all ok, most probably a mainfold problem. Anyway I don't know if trust them....Tomorrow I'll ask one of them compression psi number and yes I'll tell them about pvc.
When I pull out valve cover all seems ok, apparentely nothing strange...
So this is the sad news. Mechanic says is blown head gasket beetwen N.3 and N.4 cylinder cause when car is warm he say N.4 cylinder doesn't works as well N.3.......
I tell u the truth....I don't trust him. But I don't know what should I do....
Adding where I'll find a head gasket complete set??? It's an A18A, I know there's 2nd gen. Prelude has a A18A as well but it's might be different.....
"only read frist post" fuel injector maybe? or dizzy cap?
He has a carb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Accord
head gaskets are the same between a18a & a20a so you'll be sweet
Okay Teratani, you're not giving us much here. You say the compression is "OK," but you don't give us numbers. The car smokes, but you won't do a leak-down test. It runs on three cylinders, but all the things that could go wrong with it are "fine." Etc., etc., etc...
Here's the deal: the cylinder compresses, the plugs fire and the fact that it's a carb suggests that it's getting gas. That tells me that everything is fine in that cylinder and your problem is elsewhere. Unfortunately, I can't say that with any conviction because you aren't giving us anything useful to work with.
All I really know is that your car runs like crap, but I'm not even sure how. If I had to guess, I'd say it's been run for the last 300,000 miles with no maintenance and cheap gas. Now, you're hoping someone out there can magically provide a diagnosis that will fix all that. You're doing valve jobs, head gaskets and tranny rebuilds, when you should be doing routine maintenance.
These are among the most awesome cars on the planet. They don't break and when they do, it's usually something cheap and easy. We're all ready to help make that true in your case, but we can't do much for you until you get us some better info. You've got to get us some compression numbers, or leak down numbers, or plug wire resistance numbers, or coil voltage output, or the nature of the substance saturating your plugs or something quantifiable.
Okay?
it's possible? pistons diameter are different: 80 (A18A) vs 82.5 (A20A). Also OEM numbers are differents : 12251-PH1-003 vs 12251-PH4-003Quote:
Originally Posted by A18A
Ok, u are correct, I understand. So I'll do much possible to gathering this numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz
yeah what about that ..A18A, if you say they interchange please explain so we are not bumfuzzled subconciously about that oddity.
Teratani, Dr Snooz has a point, you dismiss some good and likely causes for the problem without much bearing towards actual confirmation. You have a good point about not trusting mechanics, lighten up a bit around them and relax.. you should be able to read their integrity a lil better.. :rolleyes:
Truthfuly when I read the thread title and first post I thought head gasket was blown, but I never want to say that without doing simple checks first.
oh okay maybe they are different, i used a a20a one on my a18a though. well i'm pretty sure it was a a20a one i used?
A blown head gasket would tend to evidence itself in a few ways:
1. It could turn the engine oil soupy brown.
2. It could turn the coolant soupy brown.
3. It could blow sweet-smelling white smoke out the tailpipe.
4. If none of the above is present, a leak-down, compression or coolant pressure test could reveal a problem.
1. engine oil has normal colorQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Snooz
2. coolant has normal color
3. my smoke white/blue cause engine oil burning
He say also upper radiator hose becoming hard....for me it's hard because is OLD and need to change it. I've just buyed radiator hose 2 weeks ago I'm waiting for them.
Anyway now is 11.40 pm here, tomorrow I need to ask compresion numbers, down-leak test and stuff but the better choice is take away car to another facilities.
How long do you normally run the car at any given time? I ask because I am wondrering if the engine temperature is more hot than before.
The compession test should tell if it is the head gasket, eventually.
Does your coolant smell like petrol? Also it would not hurt to retorque the head before going further with head sealing repairs if it is in early stages of gasket failure.
I for real would not like to see you give up on this car. I hope you can get it corrected from our help and a good mechanic there.
I had a similar issue when I first bought my 3g.
I was getting alot of smoke at startup that would get better as engine heated up. My issue was with # 2 cylinder. I thought it was a head gasket as I was getting coolant in the oil. Started doing head gasket and found that the head was cracked. Bought a new head and installed. No more coolant in the oil. Still had oil burning. Drove like this for 5k mi. One day I was waiting at a light and when I went to leave the light car would only run on three cylinders. Compression test revealed 175-60-180-175. Replaced engine.
Tore down old engine and found a cracked exhaust valve and scuffed piston on # 2.
My theory is that while idling at the light the exhaust valve got hot and when I accelerated from the light oil got drawn up to the valve cracking it.
I also theorize that the start of this problem(before I had the car) was a hole in the pcv tubing from the breather box upto the pcv valve which was impossible to see with the engine in the car.
Sorry for the long post, hoping that it will get some brain gears spinning.
I think its a valve issue too, i have a feeling its what was wrong with my 3g as well.
Teratani, Have them do a compression test, get the numbers. Then have them do it again but squirt some oil through the spark plug hole first; if the compression raises its the piston rings. If it doesn't it's most likely the valves.
Is the smoke white or is it blue? There is a difference. Blue is oil, and white is water. Blue smoke will linger, white smoke will evaporate quickly. White smoke means a bad gasket or cracked cylinder head.
First, thank u for all support. I appreciate it :)
Here test compression numbers:
155-165-180-165
I don't know what think about this...so N.3 has higher compression...but N.3 doesn't works.
at idle car seems go on 2 cylinders, if I accelerate go to 3 if I hard accelerate go to 4...something like that
Telling the truth it seems fuel doesn't go very well for some reasons.
So next step shoul be a down-leak test isn't? I need to check out some good guy. At the moment I took away car from prevoius mechanic.
For other question:
-coolant smell normally not petrol
-car smoke blu not white
For me there aren't any tips to think bad head gasket....
Adding this damn "crack" sound from my dad. He say this run on 3 cylinder happened one time in past (some weeks ago) but only for a few minutes, then car turn on 4 cylinder again then normal.
Adding blu smoke from blow by case hose that before never happened, only now that car go on 3 cylinders.
Anyway tomorrow I should got spend some time to check a good mechanic there is a Nissan facilities....hope in them.
Does the car have a catalytic converter?
Is the choke butterfly opening all the way?
The more I think about this the more I believe it is a intake or exhaust problem.
You say spark is good and you are getting fuel on the plugs, that leaves air getting in or out as the final piece of the equation.
Has anyone inspected the camshaft lobes?
Yes car has catalitic converter that I think is completely worn out cause my dad from 1990 to 1999 used leaded gas cause he doesn't know car has a cat conv, even honda delaer doesn't told him anything.....what a crazy....Quote:
Originally Posted by greentee76
If choke butterfly is the butterfly that I see just pull out carb cover, well this butterfly is all down so opened...but I think when this butterfly is open means choke is closed....isnt'it?
In the past, before some carb regolations from honda deler, at cold that butterfly was closed and if pressed accelerate (engine turn off) butterfly move to open. So in the past accelerate pedal drove that butterfly, now from some years that butterfly remain open every time and acc pedal doesn't drive anymore butterfly.
Another point is, when that butterfly was driven by acc. pedal car start engine at first cranking in any condition without giving any foot, only turn key; after carb regolations car has difficult to start and need some cranking and some giving foot on accelerate pedal too, to start engine at cold condition.
Sorry for long explanation.
I don't know if camshaft lobes was inspected.
Well that's a problem right there. If the cat is not good generally it becomes a restriction to the exhaust. Get it replaced if you need it in your area for emmisions (I am not sure where you are located) or have it cut out and a piece of straight pipe installed if you don't have to have it.Quote:
Yes car has catalitic converter that I think is completely worn out cause my dad from 1990 to 1999 used leaded gas cause he doesn't know car has a cat conv, even honda delaer doesn't told him anything.....what a crazy....
The choke butterfly should be open all the way when engine is warm. This doesn't sound like it is a problem.
Really kat could make 3 cylinder problem? I had in mind to change it with a high flow kat. Searching for it on ebay, is very cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by greentee76
Searching for a mechanic good for leakdown test, it's not so easy...
If it were me (I'm my own mechanic) I would disconnect the exhaust at the bottom of the exhaust manifold and see if the condition got better. If you do this though it will be LOUD. Also the nuts are going to be very difficult to remove without an impact wrench.
FYI anything that restricts intake or exhaust will cause runnability issues.
I see. Haven't tryed yet exhaust mainfold tip, but at the moment still trying more...Quote:
Originally Posted by greentee76
-I've re-checked and changed all spark plug with a brand new....the old one was all four (also the one on N.3 cylinder) fouled black (then dry) as they works on a very rich mixture.
-car sistematically goes on 2 cylinder down 1000rpm and a strange sound can hear coming from carburetor something like "wof" "wof" ; above 1000 rpm go on 3 and no more "wof" "wof" sound . I can hear this sound from carburetor cause I was playing on throttle stop screw behind carb. ; closely 3000 go on 4 (engine doesn't shake anymore). I'm sure about all of this.
-carbutetor is getting dirty of black powder, something like fouled spark plug. Before, was not like this.
-Disconnected hose going to air filter from valve cover and a good quantity of gray/blue smoke come out like a train, so with a good pressure. This is not happened when car worked normally.
Still sounds like a stuffed up exhaust to me.
Anyone else want to chime in?
It could be a clogged cat... I use a backpressure tester screwed into the O2 sensor before the catalytic converter to see if it's clogged. Anything above 2.5 to 3 p.s.i. is a bad cat.
http://www.toolfetch.com/media/44334.jpg
Teratani's most recent post makes me think this is a carb problem. Usually plugged exhaust will cause you to have ZERO power. Car runs fine but doesn't have power.
Everything that he's mentioned so far makes me think this is a carb issue: smoke out the tailpipe, rough running, fouled plugs and he's been tinkering with adjustments on the carb.
He can't really run down to the junkyard and pick up a scrap carb, so I'm not really sure what to advise in the way of diagnosis.
It sounds to me like he's building excess crankcase pressure and forcing exhaust back through the intake because of a restriction in the exhaust. This fits all the descriptions in his last post. Of course I could be wrong (it's happened before).
The fact that they ran leaded fuel through it also makes me believe that the cat is plugged.
I know the leaded gas will mess up a pellet type cat quick but not sure how fast or severe it would clog up a honeycone type. Good point though.
Bad fuel period would cause that wet plug, literally wet from water in the fuel. Would also explain the "pop" they hear when it starts to acting up.
without some good diagnostic data from the tests it is hard to proceed with an accurate game plan for getting this fixed
:werd:Quote:
Originally Posted by roodoo2
Ok guys sorry for lack of reply. I haven't much time during week but I still looking for a mechanic/facilities that can perform all test u mentioned on cat and downleak test...but it's really hard. Problem is not car or myself but people in this place are mads and tough mentality:
Try 1
-I ask previous mechanic (the one who diagnostic bad head gasket...) about downleak test and he even doesn't know what I'm talking about...I ask about clogged cat test and he say it's impossible determinate if car goes on 3 cylinder simply by cat...also he dosen't know about any tester (the one in the picture...). Also discussion was going in a little argument cause it seems I would teaching him how work on cars....
Try 2
-Nissan facilities, then they refused work on a not Nissan car....I can't understand this, some time ago my friend took a Dahiatsu Charade for fixing and they accepted.... :mad:
Try 3
-Another "on the road" mechanic he say engine is completely gone and need to replace. Smoke from valve train-air filter hose are some valve that can't take anymore pressure from engine...he refused to perform test I requested cause it would be a wasting time for him....
Try 4
-spacialist exhaust mechanic. He want steal me money cause he want change cat converter with a piece of junk and later see if car still goes on 3 cylinder. In anycase I still to pay. I say him there is a chance of see if car go better only disconnecting the exhaust at the bottom of the exhaust mainfold, then he answer me that's is impossible....
The only "reliable" (not to much for me) people are from honda delaer on about 50 miles so far....the problem is they are VERY VERY expensive, they are not accessible. If I told u how much I've payed for fixing torque converter issue, u take me as a crazy man...besides for me they are not so experts on these honda pre '90s
Still I don't trust them in anycase. U understand my situation. So what should I do?
- I need to buy a cat test as in the picture from ddude2uc?
- Can I perform leakdown test by myself? About special tools?
- Can I perform some other tests by myself?
A self-diagnostic through ECU coul help me? ...the problem is ECU doesn't blink at all...maybe cause there is a wire not connected. The story is long...In the past I remember that under seat there was 2 wires connected each other...if I disconnected these wires the strange signal on dashboard come out (see my prevoius topic, someone told me that should be a signal for emission control or catalytivc converter that overheating). After mechanic turn off this signal (don't ask me why mechanic has made it...I dont't know) now there is only one wire the other wire is gone and I dont' know where came from so I can't restore original connections...the only wire still has a signal of 4 Volt as I turn on ignition key. I need somethnig as elecrtic sheet but I guess is impossible to find it cause car is jdm. I know usdm has a solenoid valve control unit I don't know if is the same.
Anyway this is a supplement, the important thing I need to fix this 3 cylinder work.
Well as far as the leakdown test you would need compressed air. What you are doing is putting compressed air into the cylinder and seeing how much leaks out and from where. You can actually hear the air coming out the exhaust,or the valve cover or the intake.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ter/index.html
The converter can just be bypassed. Saw it off and reconnect a pipe in its place. Here stateside that is very illegal to do but your country it might be OK on an older vehicle. You will have to look into it.
EDIT: you can add a piece of flex pipe and 2 exhaust clamps. We get it at autoparts stores. A few pictures I provided below.
http://images.asia.ru/img/alibaba/ph...xible_Pipe.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...202/after7.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN
I still think the exhaust valve is bad prolly stuck in the guide when cold.
The part about smoke coming out of the pipe out of the valve cover is called "blowbuy." Meaning compression gases are slipping past the rings into the crankcase and that is the smoke you are seeing. You may want to vent this pipe out of your intake since that will sludge up everthing in your intake track.
wp
you can hollow out the cat by taking it off so you can access both ends of it. Then take a long rod to punch the honeycomb stuff out, making sure you get every single piece out. Then put the cat back on.
I would advise reading back through this thread and really think about what is the cause of the problem. A lot has been said, and keeping the examination simple and most importantly thorough is important so that no efforts are wasted.
This is frustrating that your local shops are not able to assist you without running up unfair charges. Communication seems to be a bit of an obstacle as well, not wtih us but with your local wrench heads.
Ok, so this weekend I'm going to see what can I do.
The difficult on cat is that I'll need to reach under car and could be a little dangerous without good stuff. I only have 2 wrench crick original honda that normally should use only for upping car and change tires.
Hi!
Sorry for my disappear but I had to hard work for my thesis degree :)
For the car, at the end was a bad head....It was need a completely head rebuild cause all guide valve was very very messy and so other small problems relatives to head. So I can say this is a solved issue.
Now the problem is the head gasket replace part. I had purchase a 2 complete kit: the one from A18A1 (thta IS NOT a A18A at all) Prelude and all parts not fit at all on my car and the one form A20A1 Accord where only head gasket not fit cause diametry pistons are bigger. Adding the kit lack about intake gasket...damn ebayer.
Now intake gasket is not a problem I can find it, but head gasket is a BIG problem. The OEM code for my Accord A18A, found on japanese electronic catalogue it say 12251-PH1-003 the same as A16A one (don't ask me how could use the japanese electonic catalogue :D finally my 10 digit VIN was helpful, u know this car hasn't a standard 17 digit VIN).
The only choice is to go at very expensive honda dealer, cause on ebay find part for A18A or A16A is impossible.
