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For my Christmas gift this year I am going to buy one Megaskirt II EFI controller for my Accord.
The only reason is that I want to learn how MS handles the ignition to later get it implemented in my system.
I will also compare the performance of a home made ECM vs an expensive commercial ECM.
And finally, once MS is implemented in the car i hope to get some free time for myself to finish the PCB design and the tuning and chip programming software.
Wow, it seems like Santa got earlier this year (or I have been a super-good guy) because I got my Megaskirt II already. And I don't know how he knew, but included a Wide Band Oxigen Sensor as well! :)
I am going to start building the MS board in these days, but when finished, I will leave my EFI system's harness in place, so I can swap to any one at any time.
I assume ur talking about megasquirt?
Megasquirt. Yes, sorry.
Skirt is a women's cloth, right? hahahha megaskirt. Oh man, sorry. :hs:
The MegaSquirt board is complete and programmed with the default settings (except for my engine characteristics)
I will leave My ECM connector in place so anything I learn from MS I will get it implemented in mine.
I'm going to be honest and tell the truth why I decided to buy the MS board...
It was because of a tooth I recently lost. (it was slightly loose since I was in high school, after a fight with another guy -I won the fight anyway (I suppose) because he said stop and was bleeding from his face-
So I went to the dentist and he put me a false tooth. He charged me 400 USD right there!
Then I said, well, 266 USD for an unassembled Megasquirt isn't that expensive after all.
That's the real reason why here I am starting this new project...
Here is the board I already soldered and the pigtail ready to get connected to the car.
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5293/msii.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
I would super highly recommend paying the small fee to register TunerStudio. It is an AMAZING program.
Not sure which firmware you plan to use but I would recommend MSExtra over the standard B&G code. In your application it won't make a huge difference but it has some features that the B&G code does not.
I can also help you with any settings and even a timing table whenever you get around to setting up the ignition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
Interesting logic. :dunno: But hey, whatever. :cheers:
Incidentally I broke a tooth about 3 months ago (had to be pulled). Tomorrow morning I go back to the dentist to see how it has healed and find out about getting an implant. Talk about expensive. Implants are like $4000! :Owned:
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Thanks Cygnus, I will really going to need your help when working out the timing setup.
Hey, do you have any write up in any other forum of your MS setup I can follow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
Yes and no. I did have a thread over on Preludepower.com where I documented some things, but it probably won't be all that helpful since I was using different hardware. For example, I used an Acura Integra intake manifold and injectors, which is a port style setup where you are using a TBI. I also retrofitted some Ford (EDIS) ignition parts to create a crank triggered distributor-less system instead of using the stock distributor and coil. The ignition setup is different depending on how you go about it. The Ford EDIS setup is superior (in several ways) to a distributor type system but it requires fitting of a trigger wheel onto the crank. I can do this for you (for a small fee of course) if you're interested. The down side of the EDIS setup is that it requires the AC system to be removed (due to space constraints). I know it's gets pretty hot down by you so I can understand if you don't want to give up AC.
OR, if you want to be adventurous, there are many other ignition triggering schemes supported by MS that you could try, but they all require fitting of a trigger wheel of some kind, either on the cam or the crank. Probably the easiest one would be to try and fit a newer OBD1 type distributor in place of the stock distributor. I actually sell a kit to do just that but it's expensive ($300). In the next couple months I'm planning to work out a cheaper way to do this, by modifying the distributor itself instead of using an adapter plate.
Anyway, the best thing to do for you I think would be to read the MS pages on ignition setup and then come back here if you have any specific questions. The MS documentation can be quite intimidating and confusing due to it's immense size, so don't be afraid to ask seemingly "dumb" questions either. Even if it's just "where do I find such and such?"
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Since my car was already working with fuel injection, I just replaced one controller with another, all the hard work was already done before.
So my MS setup did run at the first try. The only problem I had was that the engine was rev'ing up and down at Idle, adjusted the VE values and that was it.
For now I will lock up the mechanism of the stock dizzy and give the MS the spark control, I will certainly contact you if I need more specialized hardware.
Thanks.
This' gonna be a short project though!
So what would be next?
Convert it from TBI to port injection by swapping the intake from an EX-I..?
I knew I was going to have problems when implementing timing control.
I don't have a timing gun available, but I removed the spark plugs and manually turned the engine until the compression cycle was found, along with the marks in the camshaft pulley.
I also was careful to put a mark in the direction of the rotor before removing it, and put the rotor in the same direction after I locked up the advance mechanism inside the dizzy. I welded some points to the counterweights to lock it up.
Well, now the car won't start. What I'm doing is controlling the spark and advance from the MS, so I used the electronics inside the dizzy to give the pulse to MS and an internal transistor from MS will drive the coil.
Somebody give me an advise of how to set the initial timing (regardless of the controller). Since the mechanism is now locked in the "rest" position, I know it may be slightly offset, but the car does nothing even though I move the distributor back or front.
If you mean welded the weights with and electric arc welder then the surge might have fried something in side like the pickup coil. Check for spark.
To time it the rotor should be right on the #1 plug wire/tower on your cap with #1 cylinder on compression stroke,both valves closed.
wp
Yes, it was with an electric arc welder, but I disassembled the dizzy & its electronics first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
Another question for those that have used a timing light...How many degrees of advance is in the slot of the dizzy? Since I don't have one timing light I need to know how to advance it ~20 degrees. Which I assume will be a fraction of the whole slot...
To make sure It was well aligned I reconnected everything back to normal (dizzy still locked up) and the car fired up. So the problem resides in the tuning of the MegaSquirt. I will ask for support in the MS forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
There is quite a lot of adjustment at the distributor. What I would suggest is to first set the crank at TDC by the timing mark on the flex plate. Then adjust the distributor (with the cap off) so that the reluctor wheel lines up with the VR sensor vanes. This way the MS gets the trigger signal exactly at TDC and the trigger angle in the settings is 0. Now you can setup the ignition advance table for whatever you want.
Here is an ignition table that should work pretty well:
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...10-10-2008.jpg
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This is what i was looking for, Cygnus, Thanks.
MSExtra has closed loop control for the Idle Speed and the standard B&G code does not. Enough reason to switch to MSExtra! Well, as soon as the car starts again. I will give it another try today...Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus x-1
It's time to get back to this forum and keep documenting the progress with my car & Megasquirt.
I've been spending some time in the MS forums trying to fix a problem I got when trying to get my stock dizzy and coil controlled by MS. I could not make it work after all the efforts I made.
So I will switch to a trigger wheel and get rid of my dizzy. Then I will put very nice "pencil coils" (or coil on plug, or COP).
I'll start by finding a way to adapt the trigger wheel to the front of the crankshaft. I got an idea to start with, and I will upload some pics of the progress.
I always love watching your projects unfold. Can't wait to see what you do.
You need a toothed wheel, The Ford cars and trucks have something similar to this:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/927/imagen210u.jpg
The wheel is press-fit into the pulley, with the tools I have at home I could not remove it, so I made a cut in the middle of the missing tooth and then it came off easily.
http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/439/imagen213.jpg
We are going to use the cavity inside the pulley.
The toothed wheel is slightly bigger, so I cut like 1/3 of the length of each tooth. Cut a little bit and measure, cut some more and measure again
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1382/beforesl.jpg
When it is almost the size, I forced it into the pulley using a hammer. The slot I made to take the wheel off helped me a little bit so nothing got broken
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8895/afterye.jpg
One just need to be creative with the available stuff. I plan to make a bracket to be screwed to the AC mounting support. This install was OK to take measurements to design the bracket and probe it works.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3668/sensork.jpg
This is the car running and sensing the teeth from one side, which is not the "normal" way. But it works! All depend on the sensor type you use. Mine has two Hall sensors inside in differential configuration, so it switches exactly when one is looking at the gap, and the other is looking at the tooth.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/8758/runningpe.jpg
The coil is accurately controlled by Megasquirt now. Here you can see the dizzy with the vacuum advance and all the electronics inside removed.
I wired everything to put the pencil coils but, due to the football games, I had no time to finish them today :)
So a few more days only using the rotor to distribute the high voltage to the spark plugs.
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/511/dizzyr.jpg
Wow, that's a pretty rad solution you came up with for mounting the trigger wheel. Looks like with that setup, you could keep PS/AC and all that! Nice work!
OMG!! Your trigger wheel is absolute genius! The pencil coils are more genius.
:bow::bow::bow::bow:
Ahhaa!!! Now that I see the pulley from an angle i see what you did. I was thinking you fit the trigger wheel over the center part of the pulley, but you fit it inside the flange from the AC section. Ingenious indeed! And what I said on the MS forum about your pulley is incorrect. You DO have the standard Accord pulley. It was just hard to tell from the pictures you posted there.
So this would let you keep the AC when doing a MS conversion. The next thing to figure out is if there is a VR type sensor that can be easily mounted to read off the side of the teeth. That would let people do the EDIS retrofit with the Megajolt controller.
Did you use any screws or anything else (besides press fitting) to keep the trigger ring in? I would be somewhat concerned about it working loose over time due to vibration.
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New bracket, I don't think Lost would hire me in his shop, but this one is adjustable in the 3 axes.
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/7608/newbracket.jpg
I drilled the 3 holes precisely to add some screws to keep the ring in place. Pass thru holes in the pulley, built some thread, some thread locker in the screws and there's no place for the ring to go (I hope)Quote:
Did you use any screws or anything else (besides press fitting) to keep the trigger ring in? I would be somewhat concerned about it working loose over time due to vibration.
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6734/screwsb.jpg
And thanks for your compliments! I'm still amazed how well everything fitted this time.
I saved the best pictures for this forum :cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus x-1
Just finished building the PCB for the coil drivers... I guess I still have some time to give them a try today...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
I see you discovered T-slot extrusions. Aren't they great? You can do all sorts of cool things with those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
Oh yeah, that's plenty good. It won't take much really to keep it in.
The fact that the Ford pulley fits right in the Accord pulley is pretty amazing. I should still have one around somewhere. I need to dig it out and do some experimenting.
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Using those extruded aluminum pieces is like playing with legos :) you can build almost anything.
I found the information for the Hall sensor I'm using.
It comes in the Dodge RAM 3500 since 2005.
Just searched at Autozone and it's pretty cheap, Part Number: SU13238 $14.99
Where do you get those extrusions? Those are pretty sweet. Hardware store? They have special hardware for them?
it is available in industrial suppliers like Festo, Swagelock, Grainger, etc. I have a local distributor I knew from a previous job, so it was easy for me to get what I used in my install. Or for small pieces, your local machine shop may have some material left from a recent job.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGenGuy
I love threads like these!!! Keep up the badass work, man!!! :thumbup:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
And don't forget ebay.
http://stores.ebay.com/8020-Inc-Gara...id=p4340.l2563
8020 is sort of the recognized leader in T-slot extrusion systems. They have an extensive catalog of parts for building things.
http://www.8020.net/
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Coil on plug's finally installed & working.
Pictures when I clean the wiring a little bit. Right now everything is just tie wrapped.
I found to small issues, one of them is the hose of the power steering which is forcing the new coil to be bent like 15 degrees, Its not a problem since these coils are flexible. But it looks weird.
The second one is the plug#4. It is not tightened all the way in. Of course I knew this before, but now it became more evident. When I got the car the plug was installed in a weird angle, so I removed it and try it in the correct angle but it gets too hard to re-install it. I don't apply more force because I don't want to damage the head's thread. Any advise to solve this one?
Thanks! and thanks to the people that have helped with comments and guidance. It looks like the work under the hood in my car is pretty much done at this time, so we'll see if I can do a decent tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by gfrg88
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...oductId=954483Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
never tried it myself. There some cheaper versions you can find but that is the basic design.
wp
I will certainly get one of these. Thanks for the info!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
Awesome, thanks! :thumbup:Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus x-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
That's a pretty slick idea. Hopefully the threads are not too damaged already. Seems to be a fairly common problem with aluminum heads.
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I like your thinking about the trigger wheel!
I had found those a while ago,
http://www.autosportlabs.net/Trigger_Wheel_Designs
I have even seen someone installing a 72-2 trigger wheel in the distributor and using vr sensors from a Rx-7...
My project has been completed.
After solving some issues not related to Megasquirt, but to my little knowledge of tuning, the car is working great now. Fires up at the first try and warms up by itself. Also the automatic Idle speed control is great for an automatic car like mine.
Here is a couple of views of the TBI and the new set up with coil on plugs. And dizzy finally removed!
http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/8337/frontviewa.jpg
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/494/completedb.jpg
Special thanks to Cygnus, I'm using your timing table with no modification other than the Idle w/shift area, since I assume your car is standard you don't need to get slightly advanced in that part of the table.
The final touch. I changed the buzzer that is installed there to another place under the glove box and put the Megasquirt where I can see the LEDs :flash: while I drive.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8184/77710694.jpg
:rockon:Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
Isn't it nice to be rid of the distributor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
That's right, the auto timing curves are a bit different. I'm not sure how exactly though. I guess just tune it so that it idles the best. Usually that happens when the MAP is the lowest at a given RPM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
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Great job!!
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by 87roach
Oh yes, it was the best part. I always had a pretty big oil leak through the dist. but never looked for replacing the oring. No more worries about caps, rotors and wires.Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus x-1
You are the MAN!!! Nice work!
Congrats man! Great job!
Thank you guys! I am really enjoying the car and how powerful it feels. Megasquirt is a great product!
PS. My wife is asking me if I'm sure I'm not going to work in the car today haha.
I have to say that yours is the best execution of electronic timing control I've seen on this board. I especially like the pencil coils. I've always wanted them, but assumed they were impossible on these cars. Kudos again.
that is a sweet set up...its nice to be tuned
Thanks a lot for your nice words. These cars deserve to be kept in good shape and be modernized.
A friend of mine started calling my car the knight rider, so I'm seriously thinking in adding the set of LEDs in front of the hood similar to that car on the tv show. I just found a chapter where I can see how many LEDs it has and the speed of switching side to side. I will emulate that and fit it in front of the car. It may sound like a child thing but I always liked that tv show and having a car with plenty of electronics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM7Nf...eature=related
Sorry for the audio in spanish haha but its the way I saw it when I was young.
this is an animation...Hope to get close to this.
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2...ghtanimate.gif
OK, well. It doesn't show the animation, but this is the idea.
Just in case you are wondering if this is going to look too "mexican" in my car, It will, but I plan to add a sw in the cabin so I can turn it on only when I'm with friends showing off and then turn it off for normal drive. Unless I have had a couple of beers then I may leave them on :naughty:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
That actually fits pretty well. You have to have different settings for it though. If you remember from the show, the "scanning" speed would get faster when they were chasing someone. And then when KITT got really pissed off the pattern would change from left/right to a center pattern.
Of course these guys have already beaten you to the idea.
http://www.knight-f2k4.com/
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Creating the patterns will be the funniest part of this little project.
here is the youtube link of my progress so far. It was easy to get it started & working.
http://youtu.be/gfOBwf9EZMU
Its just the 1st step, still need to add color filters and refine the timing and speed. and create hundreds of patterns, and of course, install it in the car haha.
I've always wanted the knight rider lights, but don't know how to make them for under $10 :(
I know this isn't an electronics forum, but posting the code may be the base for a student willing to do an electronics project like this.
Code:#include <pic.h>
#include <htc.h>
#include <stdio.h>
// Buzo's knight rider scanner simulation. For any 3geez!
// Config Register: CONFIG
//__CONFIG (FOSC_XT, WDTE_OFF, PWRTE_OFF, CP_OFF);
#define _XTAL_FREQ 4000000
#define FOSC 4000000L
unsigned char i;
void
wait(void)
{
for(i=25;i>0;i--)
{ __delay_ms(1);
}
}
void
main(void)
{
PORTB=0;
TRISB=0; // All outputs
do
{
RB0=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB7=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB1=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB0=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB1=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB2=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB1=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB3=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB2=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB4=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB3=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB5=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB4=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB6=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB5=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB7=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB6=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB6=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB7=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB5=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB6=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB4=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB5=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB3=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB4=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB2=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB3=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB1=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB2=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB0=1;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
RB1=0;
wait(); // Wait ms_delay
} while(1==1);
}
I used some cooper boards I had lying around to hold the bulbs.
Cut them about 1" wide so they fit inside the gap and used solder & an iron to join 5 of them and drilled 8 holes and also soldered the 12V bulbs.
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8351/pcbs.jpg
No fancy sockets for the bulbs. If one gets damaged I need to use the iron.
I will add a clear protection and the color will be orange. I also can make separators between each bulb, so the light will look rectangular.
How about some aluminum tape to reflect the light?
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5458/views.jpg
Interesting site. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by cygnus x-1
I guess I need to look for renting the series of knight rider just to refresh my memory, I didn't recall it changed the scanner pattern.
This one is really cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by A18A
1 copper board from radioshack
8 small 12 V bulbs from autozone
the circuit board for the microprocessor can be build in a protoboard (a drilled type board but you still need to solder the components) and the cost for all the components for this project should be less than 20 usd.
The only complication is how to program the microprocessor. But if someone is interested I can easily ship programmed chips for plug and play. But before getting to that, I need to finish mine and get as much Kitt patterns as I can.
Nice looking! That slot was made to fit a scanner though.
My wife didn't know what I was doing, and she couldn't stop laughing when I show her my knight rider's scanner version. Oh women.
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3733/inaction.jpg
She says the car looks "too happy" when I was trying to make it look mad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
I don't know if she is going to be able to stop laughing about my lights some day.
This morning when I left home, she was in the window in front of the garage waiting for me to turn the scanner on. I did it just to make her happy.
I started to think that this scanner thing might not be the greatest idea...:D:D:D
Okay, this is rad. Dude, we need VIDS of this in action!
With the knight rider's introduction theme in the background?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGenGuy
Oh yes! I'm working on that, but I haven't found anybody willing to hold the camera while I'm approaching to him at full speed.
LOL. Have you considered a tripod?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzo
