Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in something I've been working on. At the moment I'm too lazy to rehash it all here but check out the thread on Preludepower.
http://preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331411
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Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in something I've been working on. At the moment I'm too lazy to rehash it all here but check out the thread on Preludepower.
http://preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=331411
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nice! What did you have to do to get the rear to fit? I might go from a solid mount in the rear to somthing like this.
It would likely be the same as the front, as you can use the rear mounts as replacements for the front. DX prelude came with the same mounts for the front and rear. The front accord crossmember has 2 sets of holes, one that matches the rear.
Very cool!
It would be interesting to see how it all holds up. The brackets could be easily reinforced with a little welding if necessary. Not sure on the mounts, as they don't see much stress in the applications they were designed for.
ive used rear mounts front and rear on my car, this is a pretty neat idea
Correct. As far as I can tell, this mount setup should work in the front and rear for ALL 3g Accords and 2G Preludes.
I don't think any of the brackets will be a problem unless you are running a pretty serious engine. What are the turbo guys doing for mounts?
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Good idea I suggested energy suspension mounts years ago, but I never got around to figuring out how to adapt them to the cross members. gets some dimensions up so i can fabricate them, I went as far as going to autozone and measuring dimensions for these. I also made a large aluminum bushing for the rear dog bone, with a steel center for the bolt, and a stock small bushing. it took out the majority of the engine movement. I think one of the reasons the rear and front mounts tear so often, is the dog bones get worn out, then the engine has excessive movement putting even more strain on the mounts. I'll keep my dog bone also, as it's a bracket for some underhood items now, but i think the combination of these front and rear mounts with it will really make a difference.
i got tired of breaking motor mounts, esp the front, so now i run solid mounts. Ive tried 3m window weld filled mounts before, and they lasted longer but still broke.
I think on the turbo cars, a combination of these and the rear dog bone would be a good idea. that dog bone can be made much stiffer. The problem with the mounts is the liquid filled mount, the idea was to keep these cars from being like the american buzz box engines of the time, the engines are so smooth though, that the liquid mount really wasn't needed.
you can just see my solid aluminum insert in ehe dog bone, i made a steel insert to prevent wear, and pressed the mount into the dog bone. the smaller one is a stiff poly material, it transmits some sound, but it's worth the effort.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...c/S4021409.jpg
For a turbo engine with big power it might be good to keep the dog bone.
So far the new poly mounts are doing well. They do transmit a fair amount of vibration to the rest of the car though at certain RPMs. The front bumper seems to shake a lot for some reason. I'm pondering whether some strategically placed gussets from the front cross member to the body might help. It's only supported at the ends and the engine is mounted to it nearly in the center. Or perhaps filling it with foam would help. Hmmmm...
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Well, I've had a couple people ask about these so I'm going to throw out a price and see how many people would be interested. Lets say I can make these for $20 each for the bare brackets, or $25 each with black powder coating. How many people would be interested in picking up a set? You would need two per engine, one front, one rear. You can get the poly mounts online or at many auto parts stores for $25-$30 each. So the total cost for doing the conversion on both mounts would be about $100. At the moment I just want to see how many would be interested. I wouldn't be taking any money until I have parts to ship, so there is no commitment.
I'll be posting this over on PreludePower as well.
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now the factory steel engine mount brackets still are used correct? they just attach to these adapters? i have a modified rear mount bracket, it still bolts to a factory mount, it's really important to keep my engine from rocking since clearances are so close with the carbs
That is correct. The whole idea was for this to be a direct bolt on replacement for the factory motor mounts. This bracket plus poly mount combo is about as close to solid mounts as you can get without actually being solid.
Be warned though that these will transmit more vibration to the rest of the car. It doesn't bother me personally, but if you like to have a smooth quiet ride these are probably not for you. (not you specifically Lost, but everyone in general)
There's already enough interest over on Preludpower to make it worthwhile for me to make up a bunch of these, so it's pretty much going to happen. I'm not sure exactly when, but best guess is 2-3 weeks, especially for the coated ones. The coating guys get backed up sometimes.
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I can just spray them with epoxy paint from VHT stuff is indestructible, i probably have a half can left, it uses both the front and rear factory mount or do I need two rear mounts like some of the other conversions? the vibration is not a problem, ui already have a nearly solid dog bone, so it already transmits some vibration. every nut and bolt in the car is loctited anyway
The bracket is universal (as is the poly mount), so it works for front and rear. You should probably check your front cross member to make sure it has the alternate set of holes that match the bolt pattern of the factory rear mount, but I have yet to see a 3g that doesn't.
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I would definitely be in for two. You sir, are an innovator
I would just like one please.
Ill take 2 possible 3 let me know when they are ready. Id like the 2 for sure powdered. these are sets of 2 not individual mounts. Thanks
Ill do 2 powdercoated then, black of course.
Awesome! I'm starting a list here mostly just to help me keep track of who wants what. This is in no particular order.
- Lostforawhile, 1 pair, uncoated
- 2DRSE-i, 1 pair, coated
- 87roach, 1 pair or 1 mount?, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 2 pairs, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 1 pair, uncoated
- Mushroom_toy, 2 pairs or 2 mounts?, coated
Not sure if some of you guys are talking about pairs or single mounts, so let me know if I got it wrong. Also, there is no commitment implied here, I just want to make sure I make enough. I'll make some extras too for latecomers.
I'm planning to order the material this weekend so it should show up towards the end of the week.
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i would like a set but would not be able to order soon because money is tight next month maby
That's fine guys, whenever you're ready.
- Lostforawhile, 1 pair, uncoated
- 2DRSE-i, 1 pair, coated
- 87roach, 1 pair or 1 mount?, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 2 pairs, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 1 pair, uncoated
- Mushroom_toy, 2 pairs or 2 mounts?, coated
- Gtmst3, 1 pair, coated
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I was looking at all the 3gs at the junkyard awhile back and noticed that a few of them have a cast front engine bracket, while some are stamped. They're pretty close in terms of shape but not exactly the same. There weren't enough cars at the yard to figure out any kind of pattern as to which cars have what brackets. So I'm hoping you guys can help. If your front engine bracket looks like the one in this picture, could you tell me the year, model (DX/LX/LX-i/SE-i), and transmission type in you car?
As far as I can tell all the 3gs use the same front mount, and the engine blocks are all the same. So the only thing that could be different is the cross members. This shouldn't have any effect on the adapter brackets I'm making but I want to understand the difference to make sure.
Thanks!
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...astBracket.jpg
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il take 2 mounts also as long as i get rid of my dog mount
I'll have about a quarter inch clearance between the right fuel bowl and the master cyl, most of the rotation is front to back anyway, with these, and my almost solid dog bone, it should reduce engine movement way down.
I noticed that the EFI engines had the cast bracket.
Oh sorry, I meant a single mount(NOT a pair), coated is fine.
Yeah Im wanting a pair, or 2 mounts.
my hatchback is an 87 lxi made in japan and has the stamped mount bracket.
Not to scare you, but I believe there are 2 different front mounts for the Accord.
Reason why I say this is because my original front oem mount was an inch shorter than ones at auto parts stores. They all say 86-89, but I believe somewhere along the line the 2 differnt height front mounts got combined into only one higher mount. Not to mention the higher mount has a longer bolt.
SO basicly there is a higher mount(longer top bolt) used with the cast bracket, and a shorter mount(smaller top bolt) with the stamped steel bracket.
I was also going to use the gm trany mount as Sean had used it on his with a custom front bracket for his turbo setup, but decided on full custom instead.
After going to every single auto parts locally and running into the same problem, I finally just started using rear mounts in the front until I got a custom one. The mounts sold at all my local auto parts stores were an inch too tall along with the longer bolt. I installed one just to make sure I wasnt going crazy and it made my engine sit uneven and much higher in the front.
on another note I have never seen a 86-87 with a cast bracket. They were all stamped steel. I also thought the cast bracket was a revision for the 88-89 as those are the only ones I have seen with the cast bracket.
You would easily be fine with just the mounts. But since you're using the dog bone bracket for other stuff, I agree you might as well keep it.
I appreciate the offer, but it's not necessary. The material isn't expensive so it's not a big deal.
- Lostforawhile, 1 pair, uncoated
- 2DRSE-i, 1 pair, coated
- 87roach, 1 mount, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 2 pairs, coated
- Mykwikcoupe, 1 pair, uncoated
- Mushroom_toy, 1 pair, coated
- Gtmst3, 1 pair, coated
- MessyHonda, 1 pair, coated
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That's some good info there. It's not surprising that the aftermarket mounts would be wrong for some years. Pistons are the same way with the top dish that's bigger than on the OEM pistons on the '88-'89 FI engines.
So what this means is that if your engine happens to have the cast bracket, you might have to swap it for a stamped bracket to use the poly mounts. Or come up with some sort of spacer to take up the difference. Although that would need an even longer top bolt so switching to a stamped bracket is probably better. It's lighter too.
So do any of you guys on the list have a cast bracket?
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count me in... 1 pair (front/back)
Uhm, well when I swapped in that 89 fi motor it came with the cast bracket. However I couldn't find the bolts for it so I put the stamped bracket and it worked fine.
Any news, about to rip my old engine out...
I have all the material but haven't been able to do much with it. Just too much damn work to do at the moment. And unfortunately I don't get paid by the hour. :hmph:
The next few days will be hell but we should be over the hump after that. For a little while anyway.
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$25/pc powdercoated? I might be able to get them made cheaper for you. Where I work, we deal with tubing fabrication (we build magazine/candy racks for grocery stores). We also powdercoat in-house. If you'd like, I can get a quote, to see what I can get them for.
You know what? I'll take one of your coated mounts :D
yeah. I'd be interested in getting a pair of mounts as well.
I can't make them without specs and an OK from Angus. Its his project.
Hey guys, I haven't forgotten about these. Just been busy with work and other higher priority projects. I fully intend to get back to this when I can.
As for farming out the work, I do appreciate the offer but it would kind of defeat the purpose of me doing the job at all, which is to make a little money on the side by building cool parts. I spent quite a bit of time figuring out how to make these work, so it would be nice to get something back for that. And besides, welding and machining is the fun part! If I was going to outsource work it would be the boring stuff like shipping and order tracking. :lol:
Oh, and my name is Chris not Angus BTW. You're thinking of LX-Incredible.
Anyway thanks for hanging in there guys. We'll get there.
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any updates on these? i just discovered my 3 year old low mileage front mount is already cracked, and it was a moog not a cheap one,
Hey guys,
I'm getting back to working on these after I finish the OBD1 adapters tomorrow. Just thought I would bump this so you know, and to say thanks for being patient. :wave:
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count me in for a set :)
It's not a set, it's just the rear one.
Actually it will work for both if you have the *normal* short style front mount with the stamped bracket. If you have the weird taller front mount (on some '89s I think) with the cast bracket you will probably have to switch to the stamped bracket. I have a volunteer with the taller mount willing to try it out though, just need to get him some parts.
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Like I said, count me in for a set ;)
Oops.
Well that's cool!
Hey are these things for sale soon because im either gonna get these or a full set of motor mounts from rockauto... would be good to know soon because im putting in a big order at rock auto.
I'm trying to get these done ASAP. Things kinda stalled in the last couple weeks due to some other high priority work I had to do. And then my last band saw blade broke while I was cutting up the square tubing for these. :mad: New blades will be here Monday so then work can resume.
I did manage to build a set and send them to a guy on Preludepower that has an '89 LX-i with the cast bracket and taller engine mount. He's going to test fit them to see what they need to work on engines with the cast bracket. I'll definitely report back what we come up with.
One thing I would like to reiterate for anyone that hasn't read the entire thread, is that these poly mounts WILL be harder than OEM type mounts. That means they WILL transmit more engine vibration to the car. If you want something a little softer you could try using an OEM type (rubber) GM transmission mount instead of the poly mount from Energy. It would be more expensive than just getting the regular stock mounts but you would at least have the option then for rubber or poly.
Finally, I wanted to mention that depending on the financial situation I might start collecting money when the parts are done and ready for powder coating. Cash has been tight lately and I would rather do the whole batch (of 50) at once if possible. Normally I don't like to collect money until parts are ready to ship but in this case it might make things easier. Anyway I'll let you guys know when the time comes.
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you don't need to powdercoat mine, i have a favor at the powdercoaters on the field where I work, so that will save you money, i'm not worried about vibration being transmitted into the car, we don't need no stinking mushy mounts!! :D I just need one to go at the back, as I made my own front mount
I don't mind a little idle vibration, but at the moment when I decelerate with the gears after accelerating I get a horrible shudder, which, from what I have been told by a mechanic is a front engine mount... would this mount fix the problem, or would it be worse in the way of shuddering over an oem? Also, what do you recon postage would be to australia (for 2)?
Thanks!
These will definitely fix a sloppy factory mount. That's the reason I did this mod, I was tired of the accel/decel wind up you get with the rubber mounts. I also wanted to get rid of that stupid torque bar. I hate that thing.
If you just want the brackets the postage would be about $14 US. If you need the poly mounts too it would probably be double that, unless I can cram everything into a single flat rate box and it's less than 4 lbs. I would have to check the weights on everything. You can probably get the poly mount locally though.
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Hmmm I'm a little confused to what you are saying here... At the moment I have the original short motor mount that was made for the car in 85, so all I want is two of your replacement mounts (one for the back one for the front) or am I missing something here?
Thanks!
Cygnus is making brackets to adapt to a generic motor mount that is readily available instead of custom items that are just one off and non replaceable. This way if your mount breaks or gets damaged, etc. you can just go get the same one and bam.
He wants to sell you just the brackets and for you to buy the actual mount's to save you money. Take a read in the prelude thread he posted on the first page.
Ok. What I'm actually selling is a bracket that lets you use an off-the-shelf polyurethane transmission mount as an engine mount. The bracket is the rectangular thing with the tabs on it (---EDIT--- see below). In addition to the bracket you also need the poly transmission mount, which at least in the US is available at many auto parts stores and lots of places online. I don't know if the poly mount is available in AU so if need be I can get them for you and send them with the brackets.
So the cost to replace both stock engine mounts is $50 for the two brackets, plus whatever the two poly mounts cost, last I recall they were around $25 - $30 each depending on where you get them. That totals to about $100. It is a little more expensive than just getting stock type mounts (especially from Rockauto) but if you want a more solid type mount it's the way to go.
Hope that clears up your confusion. And just so you know this isn't a one time group buy or anything. I plan to keep these in stock and offer them for sale for the foreseeable future.
EDIT: Dang, I never posted any pictures of these! See my next post...
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Here is the part I'm selling:
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...ntAdapter1.jpg
The poly mount that you have to buy is this:
http://www.streetsideauto.com/p/ener...ension-31108g/
http://c452191.r91.cf2.rackcdn.com/i...1_20100824.jpg
And then this is the bracket and poly mount installed on the front side engine mount:
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...ountFront2.jpg
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hmmm ok great thanks for the help... im thinking with the price of the poly mount (i understand now! :D) including postage to Australia it will cost over $100... and im already placing a big order at rockauto... ill see if i can find some really cheap mounts, and if i can i'd love to get a set of mounts! (its a shame we dont get more of the energy suspension parts here, because i already need to get a shifter bushing kit...)
Thanks!
I think there might be a company down there that does poly mounts, but I can't remember. Let me check with one of the AU members on Preludepower.
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No word on poly mounts in Oz yet. It's being looked into but could be a week or so before we know.
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We're moving along now. The ears are all welded on and the holes drilled. Tomorrow the weld nuts get tacked on and then they're off for powder coating. I'm only going to do them in black since doing custom colors gets more expensive, and it's not a very visible part anyway. They won't go to the coater until monday so if you want one bare let me know before then. Right now I only know of one person that wants a bare one (Lostforawhile), but if more people ask then I might keep a few bare just in case. No guarantees though after Monday.
It will take probably a week or so for the coating, but they're far enough along now that I can start collecting money. The coated ones will be $25 each, or if you want bare ones it's $20 each. I don't have a solid price on shipping yet but I expect it to be about $5 per pair anywhere in the US. If you only want one it will still be the same shipping price as a pair. If you want more than 4 I'll get you a custom shipping quote. For you guys outside the US, I'll have to get you a custom shipping quote.
Just so everyone is clear on this, YOU NEED TO BUY THE POLY MOUNT YOURSELF. What I'm selling here is only the bracket that lets you use the poly mount. The poly mount is part# 3.1108 (red) or 3.1108g (black) from Energy suspension. These are available online from many places and are also stocked at many auto parts stores since it is a common upgrade for many GM vehicles and I think Jeep also. If for some reason you can't get the poly mounts (outside the US for example), let me know and we'll work something out. About the cheapest I've seen them is from Summit Racing.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ENS-3-1108G/
So whenever you guys are ready, just PM me with how many you want and I'll send you my Paypal or mailing address if you want to send a check or money order. I have 46 of these parts right now, but if they all sell I'll go ahead and do another batch. This is posted over on PreludePower as well, so if you're a member there too please don't contact me from both places, otherwise confusion will ensue.
Hopefully I'm not forgetting anything, but if you have any questions please feel free to ask either here or over PM.
Thanks!
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Woohoo! The brackets are done and ready for powder coating. Target date for ready to ship is a week from Monday.
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Sweeeet :thumbup:
pm sent from a good paying, and of course crappy memory customer!
The brackets are in for coating now. Should be ready early next week!
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cool deal cygnus, good work as always.
I like the picture but can you post a pic showing it from the other side as well? Also if your test fit guy can post a pic of the cast mount or rear location installed. Thanks
You know I still haven't heard from the test fit guy. I'll PM him and see what's up.
Is this the picture you're looking for?
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...ountFront1.jpg
I took some of the back too.
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...MountRear1.jpg
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...MountRear2.jpg
http://bluegreenlabs.com/Prelude/Mod...MountRear3.jpg
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that is what i was looking for. For some reason i thought the new poly mount would have 2 bolts on top and wanted to be sure it looked alright. i was wrong in my assumption. Those look great. I will send payment this week for 3 mounts.
Let me know when you need my payment for front and rear :thumbup:
The poly mounts actually have 3 holes on the top, because in some applications the outer two are used instead of the inner one. In our case we would only use the center hole.
I *might* be able to cram 3 brackets in a single box, in which case shipping would only be $5 instead of $10. So if you can wait until they come back from coating I'll check that out and maybe save you $5. :D
I also checked with the test fit guy. He's going to try and fit them this weekend so hopefully we'll find out what's needed for the cast bracket.
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PM me whenever you need it :thumbup:
sounds good to me just send me a paypal request via pm.
Alright, I got the brackets back from being coated, and they came out really nice! So I'll be shipping them out starting tomorrow. If you've already sent your money I'll PM you a tracking number when your parts ship. If I haven't collected your money yet expect a PM very soon.
I'm still waiting to find out about using these with the cast front bracket. The guy testing this had a sudden clutch problem that had to be fixed before he could do the test fitting, but he expects this to be resolved soon. Of course I'll let you guys know when I find out.
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Ygm.
Good news!
I plan to use one with the b20a cast front mount. I can test for you if you want. Did you ever find out if 3 fit in a box.
Hey guys, just a quick note to let you know what's going on. I was not home most of the weekend so didn't get a chance to do much. Then Monday morning a huge storm went through and knocked out power to something like 860,000 homes in the area, including mine. The power company doesn't even know when power will be restored, they're just saying "it could be several days". Fortunately I didn't suffer any damage except for lots of tree branches in the yard that I had to clean up. No lights or internet sucks, but at least we still have internet at work. And I've seen houses with trees through the roof so it could have been much worse. Thankful for that.
Anyway, I picked up a bunch of boxes from the PO on the way in this morning and I'm going to try and send out as many mounts as I can tomorrow.
Thanks for the patience guys.
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Wow yikes! Good thing you were unscathed.
Yeah, the weather has been super crazy! The amount of rain we've recieved this year in CO has been off the charts, and the amount of snow we got last winter in the mountains is going to cause massive flooding once the snow starts to melt, which is should have already been melting but hasnt really, just weird
:woot: Got my tracking number!! Thanks a lot!! Looking forward to getting them :D
Cool, thanks.
I'm on day 4 with no electricity. What's funny is that the one thing I'm missing the most right now is the Tour de France coverage. Other than the Olympics it's the only sporting event I really look forward to watching, and it only happens for 3 weeks each year. So of course Murphy has to poke his head in and ruin things. <sigh>
At least the street lights were on last night so they're getting closer.
Yeah. Paypal is convenient but they kill you with fees. And it takes 2-3 days to transfer money from Paypal to your bank, yet it's only seconds when going from your bank to Paypal. Funny how that is. Checks and money orders are just fine with me.
Oh, and mykwikcoupe, I got your money. Will get your parts out tomorrow. I assume the address you have listed in Paypal is correct?
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yes it is, lost as payment for the parts I can send PayPal for these for you if you would like
Bump for cool parts! Still have some available. Price is $55 per pair shipped anywhere in the US.
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Still haven't gotten mine in. BUT locals that are running these LOVE them!! They're holding up to some serious power!! Can't get anything better for the price!