EK1 to EL1 Head Conversion (More Info)

So, I sold me EL1 head that I got from Mike (Guyhatesmycar). It's going to go to Xvok. I'm pretty stoked that someone in town is going to be using this head. He has an '82 Accord, and had the head off. So I was able to take Mike's '83 EL head and match it up to the '82 Accord EK1 head gasket. Everything lines up perfectly! Even the manifolds line up. Finally, we know for sure that the swap is possible... JUST MAKE SURE THEY'RE THE SAME YEAR!!! :D (82 and 83 will interchange)

The dirtier looking head is from the US '82 Accord, and the clean one is from a Canadian '83 Accord.

Here's a top view. Everything looks like it lines up this time!
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2699.jpg

The intake ports are the same, same size and layout. Just missing the CVCC ports on the Canadian head.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2702.jpg

The combustion chambers appear to share the same bore size. And the chambers themselves look the same size. It doesn't look to me much like the Canadian EL head will actually raise compression. The valves look to be the same size as well. My guess is that the 1800 EK bottom end is a stroked 1600 EL. You can also see how the spark plug holes are directly in the combustion chamber in the EL head, replacing the Auxiliary chamber.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2703.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2705.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2704.jpg

The final test was really to see if the US headgasket matched up onto the Candian head. And as you can see here, it does.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2707.jpg

And finally, here is the new head, in mad tyte Type-R color configuration. :D
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/IMG_2708.jpg

As rjudgey says, I'm a headophile. :)

ohh mate that looks mint

i want to see it on the car already.

thanks agin to john im think this car is probaly still 3-4 weeks out as far as the engine is concerned. would have been two-3 but some oh and mines an 83'
And I think I figured out where the change in displacement occurs rember that the cvcc is another chamber that opens to become part of to combustion chamber so logicaly without that there is less combustion chamber thus less displacement does that explain the 1.8L to 1.6L change?

No, it doesn't account for the displacement change bore x stroke is all that changes your displacement. But it DOES make sense for the compression change. I imagine that auxiliary pre-chamber takes a little bit of compression out of the head. I guess we'll see how it runs. Hopefully no detonation!

oh Ill take you word for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xvok

oh Ill take you word for it.

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That's right, bitch. ;) :wave:

ok so I just talked to britco and they quoted me 300$ for the hot tank pre and post maching , home bore, deck the block, and remachine the crank and rods. so probaly anouther 200 or so for new berrings and tomi pistons and rings. and that shouold do it i think so 500$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xvok

ok so I just talked to britco and they quoted me 300$ for the hot tank pre and post maching , home bore, deck the block, and remachine the crank and rods. so probaly anouther 200 or so for new berrings and tomi pistons and rings. and that shouold do it i think so 500$

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Cool. I will talk to Johnson Machine and see what they quote me on that. I figure if I bring in a bunch of work, they'll cut me a little slack. Plus, they're open until 6:00 and are in Olympia.

sweet. i wanted to get that head off you, but i was skerd it wouldn't fit. cant wait to see it running!

John, you are right. The EK is a stroked EL block, the bore size is the same. According to my haynes (shitbook) manual, the compression on the EK is 8:1 while the EL is 8.4:1. This may vary depending on location and year. Factor in the displacement change, and I'd recommend premium fuel for this engine. Also consider any block and/or head skimming. Remember that increasing the displacement for a given chamber volume will increase the compression ratio. CR=disp/chamber volume (including head gasket height)

Yeah, the head was skimmed quite a bit. The machinist said that it looked like it had been on fire! ;) Hmmm... I wonder who could have done something like that! I'd probably guess the compression at around 9:1 by the time it's done. But do you think that 9:1 compression really would necessitate Premium gas?

My 82 is for some reason rattling on regular under acceleration, even while running pig rich. I can't time it because the index mark on the block is somehow missing.

Can't you just keep retarding the timing until it quits detonating?

so um the engine is going to the machine shop tomarrow sounds like ill be in a bit of money soon :) so ya. oh where you able to get the oil pan because mine def has a hole in it when i got it off i could see daylight

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Originally Posted by 2ndGenGuy

Can't you just keep retarding the timing until it quits detonating?

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Yes but you'll lose power. If you use the canadian carb I'm sure it would solve the detonation problem. Or, use an aftermarket carb :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xvok

so um the engine is going to the machine shop tomarrow sounds like ill be in a bit of money soon :) so ya. oh where you able to get the oil pan because mine def has a hole in it when i got it off i could see daylight

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Yeah, I got your oil pan. w00

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carotman

Yes but you'll lose power. If you use the canadian carb I'm sure it would solve the detonation problem. Or, use an aftermarket carb :D

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Ah yeah I see. Well, I would rather lose power though, than burn out my engine! :)

We'll be using the Canadian carb on this setup, since I'm pretty sure the mounting flanges for the US carb won't line up on the Canadian manifold. Manual choke FTW!

lol yush yush they where closed at the machine shop today I shuld have figured that cuse its sat o whell 1st thing monday then.

Damn, you guys are ready to teach thermodynamics, physics, and be an engineer for an F1 team with all that talk. That rebuilt head looks so damn good! So I'll make it simple with my inquiry...

The studs on the backside of the head where the manifolds attach. I need a few and didn't know if there were any extra heads lying around with the threaded studs and "special" nuts still usable. Anyone know what makes these nuts "special" besides the flange? Honda refers to them as Special as opposed to just Flange nuts. How would you guys go about removing the studs (and reinstalling them) without stripping out the threads? Vise grips/pliers and a towel and trying not to twist on the threaded part?

The bolt studs are like $4 per from Honda and the "special" nuts are about $2 per. Quantity is 10 per car. So, if anyone has any extras lying around, hit me up. The interchange for the studs is 76-85 Accord, 76-83 Civic, and 79-91 Lude. The special nuts fit 76-89 Accord, 75-83 Civic, 79-91 Lude, and 00-07 S2000!! Deez nutz are not ones I would want to get at a hardware store if they are indeed special. I got a cheap 81 head that is missing some things, but is usable should I ever need it. The guy at the machine shop wasn't impressed with the previous attempts on it, but he got her all fixed up (I hope). Just needs a couple special parts...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by offthahook

.... How would you guys go about removing the studs (and reinstalling them) without stripping out the threads? Vise grips/pliers and a towel and trying not to twist on the threaded part?...

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The way i remove studs: Tighten two (non-flanged) nuts together on the stud and use the bottom nut to back the stud out. Use top nut to tighten it in.

lol i was kinda scwering around with my old head and thats what i did off da hook how many did you need i can get a few for ya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xvok

lol i was kinda scwering around with my old head and thats what i did off da hook how many did you need i can get a few for ya

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I need about 6 or 7 since most of mine on my extra head are missing. But however many you can spare is cool with me. Maybe I'll shake a styrofoam cup outside the bus station with a cardboard flap that says "God bless. Need old Honda studs and nuts..." It seems I always need little stuff for my cars. :violin:

Thanks man.

pm me with the contact info and ill have those out to you for shiping cost

BACK FROM THE DEAD!

I need to find this EL cylinder head for a swap on my 1982 EK1.
I need the complete cylinder head,valve cover, intake manifold, carb, and exhaust manifold.

IF anyone is in Canada and can help me I would greatly appreciate it. My email is [email protected]

I am in Washington US and would require shipping.

I know this is an old thread...Hopefully there is some interest..

I found an EL head and intake manifold in the UK and am having my block built (new pistons/rings/bearing/seals). It will be awhile (this fall) before I get around to installing but I am very excited. My plan is to use a Weber 38 and a wideband for tuning. Hopefully this car will rip! with this setup. I will keep folks posted if there is interest??? I

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dedens

I know this is an old thread...Hopefully there is some interest..

I found an EL head and intake manifold in the UK and am having my block built (new pistons/rings/bearing/seals). It will be awhile (this fall) before I get around to installing but I am very excited. My plan is to use a Weber 38 and a wideband for tuning. Hopefully this car will rip! with this setup. I will keep folks posted if there is interest??? I

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Please do keep us posted, and if you have any pics of the setup, we would love to see it! The more info out there, the better!! :)

Yeah I would like to see that, I am currently building an 82 hatch as well and looking for intake/exhaust parts

Wubbywub...In my search for parts, I have stripped a 2 83 hatches. I have intake and exhaust parts as well as interior (blue) plastics and seats. PM me if you are interested.

--Derek

Awesome! PM'ed

The head is coming from the UK hopefully in the coming weeks. Until then, a picture of the re-furbished head. Super stoked about this and will keep you all updated.

Before Referb:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/ET...WNQMel12H7yGGA
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/dm...SjpxT3s3qppnhg

After Referb - Ready for shipping to USA from UK:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/i1...QU5Qhg7reG4ciw

can't see the pictures =[

Let's try this again....

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yeuu972mNMCZPAez9

Hello - I too am rebuilding an EK1 currently. I am in California. I have been looking for months calling salvage yards etc in Canada, and have just started reaching out to Australia, looking for an 1982 EL1 head. Where did you happen to find it, and any chance they have another? :nervous: Also, do you know if it is required to replace the intake manifold with an EL1 also? I know there are CVCC ports on the EK1 intake, but can those just be "filled", i.e JB weld or similar? Please let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance!

Hi Naylorfamily7....

I searched for almost a year for an EL head and intake. I called all over Canada without any luck. These cars just don't exisist anymore. I finally found a head and intake manifold in the UK. I don't have head and intake yet but should very soon. Unfortunately, the seller only had one.

What are you doing for pistons, rods, and crank? I am planning to run a weber 38? what are your plans?


Right after posting, I was talking with my buddy that owns an 83 hatch. You might have luck buying a complete 82/83 accord from Canada, taking the head off, and selling the rest to an auto recycler/junkyard. We have done this with a US Accord. I found a 82 hatch that had been in an accident and was very rusty. The interior was nearly perfect. We purchased the car for $400, took the parts we needed, and sold for it a week later for $100 to the local auto recycler. Just make sure you get a title and a bill of sale.

lol i said that too...but the rear disks are small. i was impressed on how even it stops now tho..i went from 70-20 in around 2 secs all while downshifting in my site

Naylorfamily7 I accidentally got and EL1 head from american cylinder head when I ordered an EK1 head from autozone 2 years ago - i think you might be able to order a reman EL1 head from their site, might be a wait time though.