info on budget turbo setups

First of all i wanted to point out that there is quite a bit of false information in the turbo faq thread, although there is some really good information in there. First thing is that you CAN run more than 5-6 lbs. of boost on stock bottom end, im running 15 lbs on pump gas(93 octane) and could run more probably and ive heard of other people whose done it too. The biggest thing is your timing and fuel. I hear that our stock pistons are our weak point, which they could be but there not as weak as people make them out to be. In my opinion as long as your pretty conservative on timing and KNOW how much timing you can run per boost levels and have good air/fuel numbers you can squeeze quite of bit of power out of these stock motors. I have yet to dyno mine but i would estimate im making around 240 whp on STOCK motor. I ran 13.60 with a slipping ass clutch, could easily run 12's on the stock motor. I think the people who say the motors are weak are people who failed and blew there motor because they didnt know how to tune there own car, so they give out false info to new people who may be thinking of turboing there a20.

Now to get into the tuning of the stock fuel injected system and timing of the vacuum advance distributor. Yes it definately would be better to do obd1 or megasquirt, but if your like me and dont have much money, you figure out ways to make things work. There is no right or wrong way, there are better ways yea, but if it works then how is it wrong. Ive daily driven mine for 2-3 years now and the only problems i have had has been self inflicted by trial and error. Im use a rising rate fmu, you can get pretty cheap off ebay. I got one of the cheaper ones and modified it so that i can change the ratio of how much fuel it adds, just by changing the size of the washer inside of it. Yes it does run higher fuel pressure, but i havent had no problems whatsoever out of it. The FMU with some bigger injectors (im using 390cc junkyard injectors out of automatic dsm) and an adjustable fuel regulator from ebay and thats all you need for the fueling. Keep in mind though you will need a wide band o2 sensor and do a bunch of trial and error and monitoring the wideband guage to get your fuel right. As for timing the vacuum advanced distributor, everyone says you cant do much with them, which is false information. First get a adjustable timing light gun, unplug both vacuum lines from the distributor, retard your distributor all the way, point your gun at the flywheel and rev the car over 4500 rpms and see where your timing is, this will be your full advanced timing, it wont advance any further from this point. Mine was at like 22 or 23 degrees and i was running 12 lbs of boost on that timing. but to run more boost u have to retard it more, in which you cannot turn the distributor anymore, so take the vacuum advance actuator off the distributor and adjust the rod accordingly so it wont advance as much, again this is trial and error, put it back on the distributor and put the timing gun on it again. Right now im running 15 lbs of boost with 18 degrees of full timing. And yea it does lower your overall timing throughout your whole rpms but it works, i just wouldnt go any lower than 15 degrees of full timing because then your timing will be really retarded while your just driving around and everything will be super hot and turbo will be glowing red. Again this isnt the most effective way of tuning your car but it works and is really cheap. Doing it this way will make your lower end torque suffer a little but i dont notice much difference really, its still driveable.
I have blown my motor 3 times testing the limits of timing and boost levels with this motor and have had it back up and running the next day. Basicly i was seeing how much i could get out of it, and theres still more to be had out of the stock A series, but im pretty content with where its at. Im sure ill get flamed for what im about to say but whatever... each time i blew my motor i figured out which piston or pistons blew and i went to the junkyard and pulled a used piston and ring and stuck it in my motor for 15 dollars. Worked just fine everytime. And keep in mind the reason i blew my motors was because i was testing the limits of my stock motor. Ive been driving for a year straight now with a junkyard piston in my motor on 15 lbs.
I have figured out i can run 12 lbs. (on my turbo, super 60 with smaller exhaust housing) without modifying the distributor, but just retarding it as far as it will turn(roughly 23 degrees full timing). And also i can and am running 15 lbs.of boost with my distributor modified to 18 degrees full timing, and have had it to 18 lbs of boost with race gas on the same 18* timing.

You can make good power by doing this cheap setup i have explained, but you wont beable to make 500 hp if thats what your after. But easily have a 12 second Aseries, but then you might have to worry about breaking trannys or axles.

PS.....Keep in mind 15 lbs on one size of turbo can or will make different power than 15 lbs on another size turbo(for those who may read this and not know).
Im not saying if you make a turbo setup, you can do exactly what i did and it work, because your setup will more than likely be different.

All this info is already here... :dunno:

Yea most of this information is on here but not all and its also all scattered through lots of wrong info in the turbo faqs that shouldnt be in there. If i were new to the game and searching in there i would thing it would cost you 3000 dollars no matter what to turbo your car. And i figured if theres new people searching cheap turbo setups on this motor that this thread would pop up and would give them a better idea and also what et times they could run instead of searching through a thousand threads to piece information together.
But i have searched and searched and i havent found shit about modifying the stock distributor because otherwise you could only run like 13 lbs of boost with the distributor turned all the way retarded unless you have a btm which are kinda pricey. With modifying the distributor i could run like 23 or possibly a little more lbs of boost without detonating, that would be with race gas or a water/meth injection system. i have never tried it so im not sure if the stock motor could handle that much boost, but im just saying, i think that is great knowledge to have for a beginner trying to do a cheap setup. not to mention i havent seen anything about anyone getting into any kind of depth about degrees of timing with certain boost numbers (what you can get by with on stock motor)
hell i couldnt even find out what our stock full timing was on here. That would have made it much easier for me to figure out what timing i could run per boost, but its all good because i figured it out.

This is some good information. So essentially I could go boost without my BTM , I just have to turn the dizzy and/or modify the dizzy. Pretty good stuff. I always knew with good traction and a good setup of 14-16 lbs of boost you could get into 12's with a stock engine. And to be honest, I would be happy with a 12 second streetcar

Man I guess you missed the fact I was running 12lbs on a big16g. It would spike to 16psi at 6k. And to turbo a car safely it does cost a pretty penny. If someone isnt willing to buy new tires, what makes you think they arnt going to try and cut corners when boosting a car?

But I can tell you from having obd0 to soon having a obd1 turbo 3gee, that the obd1 one will be 10x better, smoother, and easier to tune properly.

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Originally Posted by Tdurr

Man I guess you missed the fact I was running 12lbs on a big16g. It would spike to 16psi at 6k. And to turbo a car safely it does cost a pretty penny. If someone isnt willing to buy new tires, what makes you think they arnt going to try and cut corners when boosting a car?

But I can tell you from having obd0 to soon having a obd1 turbo 3gee, that the obd1 one will be 10x better, smoother, and easier to tune properly.

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Well no shit obd1 would be way better, no where did i say it wouldnt be, i was just saying if you are a broke fuck like me you can still turbo your car and drive it everyday as i do on the cheap. i turbod mine while it was and still is my daily driver. if your gonna go through with putting obd1 in your car i think its stupid to not just go megasquirt or something and have total control over everything along with 2 step and would actually be cheaper in the long run. But that might take to much work to have to brainstorm and figure out how to tune, i guess it be easier to just take it to a dyno shop and have them do it.

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Originally Posted by 87turbolude

I have yet to dyno mine but i would estimate im making around 240 whp on STOCK motor. I ran 13.60 with a slipping ass clutch, could easily run 12's on the stock motor.

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I need to see a video of this.

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Originally Posted by 87turbolude

Well no shit obd1 would be way better, no where did i say it wouldnt be, i was just saying if you are a broke fuck like me you can still turbo your car and drive it everyday as i do on the cheap. i turbod mine while it was and still is my daily driver. if your gonna go through with putting obd1 in your car i think its stupid to not just go megasquirt or something and have total control over everything along with 2 step and would actually be cheaper in the long run. But that might take to much work to have to brainstorm and figure out how to tune, i guess it be easier to just take it to a dyno shop and have them do it.

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lol i see why you dont have alot of post on here. but i would like to see a video of this 240whp car also. even with my safc and btm, I personally guessed 220whp. granted i never ran it on a drag strip or raced too many people in a 200ish power range(i always ran 275whp+ cars).

Videos and photos or it didn't happen or even exist.

Well it sounds perfectly legit to me. Epicenter ran a 13.7 @ 105 yearrrrrrrs ago on a stock engine, with stock 195/60/14 tires on it spinning thru first and second gear, up to 60ish mph. Video is still on youtube if you look hard enough. So with traction and 15ish pounds of boost, a high 12's pass isnt unfathomable. And I believe his 'conservative' estimate was around 235ish whp.

Edit : and epicenter ran 60/63 turbo, internal wastegate, safc and msd btm, 440cc injectors, 3" dump tube under the car, clutchnet 6 puck, etc. I have that old manifold too, and soon it will be back to what it was built for. Im basically mimicing his original setup except I have an openloop 270 cam and I wont be running stock 14" all season tires

I also believe he ran 13-16 lbs of boost

I'm not saying that it can be done I've seen builds like that's on Dseries.org. I just want to see prof. Anyone with 11 post and no avatar gonna post prof to there claim to back it up. Just saying

OP makes a valid point, it is a lot of reading to gain any insight on the topic, but that is true with any topic with any forum. The combined experiences of those who write is where good info accumulates. You still have to use your own reasoning skills to make sense of what will work for your application.
Post count has nothing to do with knowledge otherr than the sharing of...
I totally agree we could have a more concise and accurate updated turbo knowledgebase. There are so many ways to get there and too many variances, to say what is the gospe turbol troof :) that makes it hard to put on a bullet list.
D series probably does have easy peasy budget turbo chatter, theres so many more civic type vehicles out there and aftermarket support...probably alot more abandoned projects sold for scrap too.

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Originally Posted by obd0driver

I'm not saying that it can be done I've seen builds like that's on Dseries.org. I just want to see prof. Anyone with 11 post and no avatar gonna post prof to there claim to back it up. Just saying

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Oh so this is how i get my post count up, it all makes sense now^^^^ Basicly i dont spend my time writing pointless ass comments like this, i spend my time actually working on my car, my bad. And for the record im on preludepower, i mainly come here to gather info. not run my mouth pointlessly.

"Tdurr
lol i see why you dont have alot of post on here. but i would like to see a video of this 240whp car also. even with my safc and btm, I personally guessed 220whp. granted i never ran it on a drag strip or raced too many people in a 200ish power range(i always ran 275whp+ cars)."

you said u estimated 220 whp just now and previously u said u were running 12 lbs of boost. im running 15 lbs of boost so dont u think 3 lbs of boost would gain me 20whp over you???? im confused.

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Originally Posted by obd0driver

Videos and photos or it didn't happen or even exist.

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Im finally starting to get the hang of this. My post count will be at 303 posts in no time. im already at 13 posts!!! I really appreciate what ur doing for the community, u make retarded kids around the world feel smart.

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Originally Posted by Charlie

I need to see a video of this.

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I need to see a video of u naked.

Kid you don't know shit about me. Your gonna bad mouth me because you have no prof of your work. I post all my work and I'm also the one that has been test all the prototype parts for chedda's auto to make sure they work and what changes need to be made. Matter of fact messy just posted a how to that I helped him with don't tell me about putting in work. I may only have 305 post but I try best to back up my work/claims from the day got on here.

So step your game up kid post a link to your prof I'd be more then happy to give credit were credit is due that's all I'm saying.

Stop with the bickering guys. Post count has absolutely nothing to do with anything. If anything matters, its how long youve been a member, and how much you help out around here. Shit ive been around over 10 years, but my count is low cause I like to lurk and read. This site is supposed to bring us together as old accord owners dammit

Yeah really, hilarious as that was lets move on

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Originally Posted by 87turbolude

Oh so this is how i get my post count up, it all makes sense now^^^^ Basicly i dont spend my time writing pointless ass comments like this, i spend my time actually working on my car, my bad. And for the record im on preludepower, i mainly come here to gather info. not run my mouth pointlessly.

sed.

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You must have a different name at pp, I didnt see you as a member there or your car? Im Roodelude2

That sounds right about your numbers. Are you planing on converting your car to OBD1? also if you need a good clutch i would recommend Clutchnet or ACT clutch. you might want to get a Carb Transmission because it has longer final drive so you can spool your turbo.

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Originally Posted by obd0driver

Kid you don't know shit about me. Your gonna bad mouth me because you have no prof of your work. I post all my work and I'm also the one that has been test all the prototype parts for chedda's auto to make sure they work and what changes need to be made. Matter of fact messy just posted a how to that I helped him with don't tell me about putting in work. I may only have 305 post but I try best to back up my work/claims from the day got on here.

So step your game up kid post a link to your prof I'd be more then happy to give credit were credit is due that's all I'm saying.

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I think everyone here especially you was missing the point of me making this thread. I didnt make this thread to come here and glote about what ive done, i posted here trying to give people more insight on turboing their a20 on the more cheaper end of things. I was trying to help out the A-Series community not brag upon myself. I dont have to prove shit to you, its not like anything i said was farfetched anyways. The only proof i have is a time slip, but i dont know how to post pictures on here.


2oodoor

My username on pp. is ieatvws4brkfast

"MessyHonda
Re: info on budget turbo setups

That sounds right about your numbers. Are you planing on converting your car to OBD1? also if you need a good clutch i would recommend Clutchnet or ACT clutch. you might want to get a Carb Transmission because it has longer final drive so you can spool your turbo."

Eventually when i have enough money and maybe another car i might go megasquirt. I cant remember which transmission i have, i got it from the junkyard when i did my 5speed swap, it could have been a carbed one, i dunno i cant remember. Thanks for the info.

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sorry my phone takes crappy pics and the 13.64 slip was a bit wrinkled from showin it to people

Does your car have torque steer? I remember that the b16 LSD bolts right in to the a20 transmission

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

Does your car have torque steer? I remember that the b16 LSD bolts right in to the a20 transmission

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Yea it does, but most of it could be me needing an alignment. I do want to get an lsd, i havent searched on them that much though. Thats nice to know, is that a true lsd or the phantom grip crap?

This is for a true LSD we had a member here send his A20 diff to quaife LSD and they said that it has the same measurements as the b16. I would not recommend phantom grip because then you would need to machine your spider gears and it only puts friction on the gears. It would work but might not be able to take a 300-500 hp. We have a member here who has mega squirt and has made a trigger wheel on the crank. Very cool stuff then you get rid of the distributor and have a coil pack.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

This is for a true LSD we had a member here send his A20 diff to quaife LSD and they said that it has the same measurements as the b16. I would not recommend phantom grip because then you would need to machine your spider gears and it only puts friction on the gears. It would work but might not be able to take a 300-500 hp. We have a member here who has mega squirt and has made a trigger wheel on the crank. Very cool stuff then you get rid of the distributor and have a coil pack.

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Hell yea nice, i will definately be looking into that when i get the money. Thats nice info, i searched a little before and i never came acrossed that, that makes me feel better because i know its only a matter of time before i break a tranny, so far its only been 2 axles. And yea my brother used one of those phantom grips in his vw and it was pretty much garbage. Yea megasquirt with no dizzy would be great, pretty much unlimited abilities, again my brother had megasquirt on his vw and it inspired me to some day go that route.

Guys, knock it off and keep it civil. A new guy came and shared his experiences with us. He may have been a bit crass at times, but jeez guys, don't get all butthurt.

There are going to be quite a few more people doing turbo builds with these motors, now that I brought a bunch of cast T3 manifolds over from the Netherlands.

87turbolude, you've learned a fair bit about putting stuff together cheaply. Do you hang out over on HMT or GRM?

Megasquirt is trivial to add to an engine. Unless you need the extra features of MS3, just find an MS2 setup and run the MS2 Extra code.

Lol this is funny. Not trying to bicker or anything but my first turbo a 20th was done on a fresh outta high school budget so I know my fare share if penny pinching. So come correct when you try to info. We are glad u felt the need to update our outdated stickies but when you are new to us and you get defensive when we ask for proof you come off like an asshole. We are all about the sharing of experiences and knowledge. Time slip is coll but snap us some pictures of your set up. We are curious.

Also how much is a megasquirt set up? I'm curious to see how much It even cost, I couldn't find a good price when I looked.

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Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky

Guys, knock it off and keep it civil. A new guy came and shared his experiences with us. He may have been a bit crass at times, but jeez guys, don't get all butthurt.

There are going to be quite a few more people doing turbo builds with these motors, now that I brought a bunch of cast T3 manifolds over from the Netherlands.

87turbolude, you've learned a fair bit about putting stuff together cheaply. Do you hang out over on HMT or GRM?

Megasquirt is trivial to add to an engine. Unless you need the extra features of MS3, just find an MS2 setup and run the MS2 Extra code.

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No ive only been on HMT like once, basicly ive just trialed and erorred stuff. Me and my brother pretty much breathe and live turbos everyday, he has turbo vws. Except for recently, the last 3 years i hardly did anything but messsed with my car and turbo setups with what money i had to do it, which isnt much.

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Originally Posted by Tdurr

Lol this is funny. Not trying to bicker or anything but my first turbo a 20th was done on a fresh outta high school budget so I know my fare share if penny pinching. So come correct when you try to info. We are glad u felt the need to update our outdated stickies but when you are new to us and you get defensive when we ask for proof you come off like an asshole. We are all about the sharing of experiences and knowledge. Time slip is coll but snap us some pictures of your set up. We are curious.

Also how much is a megasquirt set up? I'm curious to see how much It even cost, I couldn't find a good price when I looked.

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Well i may seem new to u guys but ive been lingering around since i was 18, which has been over 5 years, but i guess i just got an account on here a couple years ago. Still yet, whatever u say, some of the info i put on here was not on here, specificly the distributor mod. As far as me coming off as an asshole, thats becuase it pisses me off when people tries to talk to me like im a dumbass. And i think my brother got his megasquirt setup for around $500 with harness and the ecu was already built, could of been maybe $600 i cant remember.

For the MS setup, it really depends on what you need to do. An unassembled MS3 kit with assembled MS3 processor board goes for just under $400.

MegaSquirt-III Engine Management System w/PCB3 - UnAssembled Kit with black case DIYAutoTune.com

MS2 kits are about $100 cheaper.

MegaSquirt-II Programmable EFI System PCB3.0 - Kit w/ BLACK CASE DIYAutoTune.com

Other costs to take into consideration are fueling requirements, and changes to the ignition system, both of which can add a significant amount to the end build cost.

I have been in contact with DIYAutoTune about their PnP products, but there is a 10 order minimum, and we have 2 slightly different EFI systems on these Accords. It would cost about $4,000 to have the first 10 ECUs built.

If you take the path I'm taking with MS and waiting out for deals on used parts, you can get the whole shebang for under $200. You usually have to make board or component repairs down at that price point, though.

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Originally Posted by Tdurr

Lol this is funny. Not trying to bicker or anything but my first turbo a 20th was done on a fresh outta high school budget so I know my fare share if penny pinching. So come correct when you try to info. We are glad u felt the need to update our outdated stickies but when you are new to us and you get defensive when we ask for proof you come off like an asshole. We are all about the sharing of experiences and knowledge. Time slip is coll but snap us some pictures of your set up. We are curious.

Also how much is a megasquirt set up? I'm curious to see how much It even cost, I couldn't find a good price when I looked.

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I had the confusion about a year ago while shopping for Megajolt, it appeared it was discontinued and renamed with improvements but I know thats not the case lol

87turbolude , Tdurr lets call the mud spitting what it is..."we" or anybody by forum human nature , like to see feel touch the good stuff like track times....that troll proofs the entire conversation right? Troll defense is the likely source of butthurting, i think were good here now anyways,
I remember, and its still here, all the insanity of your first set ups Tdurr, you put it all out there for us to rip on lol, it was bad ass all the samethough wern't it:)

87turbolude Im glad that name wasnt taken its a hellova lot easier to type than ieatvw****** lol

Psst a html link to post photos. Nice number's. Messy Is right about the phantom grip LSD I would recommend using the OBX LSD and replacing the bolts that they come with arp blots my buddy's here are using that set up to run 9's in their civics. Plus the obx have a lifetime warranty.

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Originally Posted by 2oodoor

87turbolude Im glad that name wasnt taken its a hellova lot easier to type than ieatvw****** lol

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Dude, my computer passwords are entire sentences.

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Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky

I have been in contact with DIYAutoTune about their PnP products, but there is a 10 order minimum, and we have 2 slightly different EFI systems on these Accords. It would cost about $4,000 to have the first 10 ECUs built.

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For a PnP? Do they have the right connectors available to plug directly into the factory harness? I didn't think they were still available. That would be cool if they are.

C|

A year later and no pics??? Why is this site dead???

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Originally Posted by 203lxihatch

A year later and no pics??? Why is this site dead???

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Cause everyone is on the Facebook group page instead. Easier access. But if you really wanna see this guy's setup, I believe it's on PP.