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Thread: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

  1. #1
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    Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Not sure how i got started looking at this but I saw something on D \.org I liked. Not sure how it fits into the Megajolt part since with COP there does not seem to be anyone that has made it do spark tables as well.
    I like how it uses the stock distributor sensors.

    Part of my research has been how to get away from our distributors all together.

    Couple reading links.

    Honda Rulez, the master of DIY - D-series.org

    COP Controller | ホンダRulez's Garage

    He has a for sale sight and the price seems reasonable.

    COP would take some fabing on out style motors but its seems curious.
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    cygnus x-1's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    I'm a little surprised it's taken this long for someone to do it, as it really isn't that complicated. I switched to COPs with Megasquirt years ago. It's also interesting they are using a stock distributor for the signals. It's not as accurate but it's less disruptive to install.

    I think the plan was for the next generation Megajolt to support COPs, but it's taking forever and who knows when it will be done.



    -enginebaycops-jpg

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    I'd considered doing it before the Richporter distributors started coming out. With all the mechanical dizzies failing, I was looking for a Plan B. It's on the back burner now that I can buy a brand new one from eBay.

    It would still be cool to see someone do it.
    Dr_Snooz

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    as far as the timing accuracy, if a stock dizzy was disassembled and locked out, I don't see how it could be less accurate, I mean it's driven off of the cam, and the timing belt is extremely accurate, if it's accurate enough to keep the cam in time over it's lifespan it should be able to trigger the ignition fine, how is the advance curve being set on these? map sensor?

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    search the megavolt forums. i saw a COP thread. it was linked in the big porsche 924s thread.

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    cygnus x-1's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    as far as the timing accuracy, if a stock dizzy was disassembled and locked out, I don't see how it could be less accurate, I mean it's driven off of the cam, and the timing belt is extremely accurate, if it's accurate enough to keep the cam in time over it's lifespan it should be able to trigger the ignition fine, how is the advance curve being set on these? map sensor?

    The timing belt is not as accurate as you think. Belts do have some stretch, so cam derived timing inherently has some scatter to it. Whether or not it's a significant issue is of course debatable.

    For any fully electronic system there will have to be some kind of sensor for determining engine load. Most likely it would be MAP, but could also be throttle position in cases where the MAP is unusable due to big carbs or a hot cam.

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Yes im curious how the advance is handled mostly.

    Cygnus1 I love your setup I never new you had done COP. made me glad I asked!
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    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    the reason I mentioned the stock dizzy, is Honda thought the timing was accurate enough to put the needed sensors for the FI right in the dizzy itself, instead of on the crank, as far as the timing I would think the advance map could be created though RPM, MAP input, over time.

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    cygnus x-1's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile View Post
    the reason I mentioned the stock dizzy, is Honda thought the timing was accurate enough to put the needed sensors for the FI right in the dizzy itself, instead of on the crank, as far as the timing I would think the advance map could be created though RPM, MAP input, over time.

    It definitely works, and considering the technology of the day it's a reasonable solution. It's also an easy bolt on to an existing engine, and because it's cam driven you can do sequential timing. Whereas with a crank sensor you still need a cam sensor if you want full sequential timing (as opposed to wasted spark).

    I can totally see having just a small sensor module coupled to the cam, connected to a small controller box that drives 4 COP units. The controller has a USB port on it for connection to a laptop, or WiFi for direct tuning from a smart phone app. MAP sensor is also built in to the cam sensor module.

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    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    I know one of the major aftermarket manufacturers is making something like this, but it's only compatible with V8 engines

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cygnus x-1 View Post
    It definitely works, and considering the technology of the day it's a reasonable solution. It's also an easy bolt on to an existing engine, and because it's cam driven you can do sequential timing. Whereas with a crank sensor you still need a cam sensor if you want full sequential timing (as opposed to wasted spark).

    I can totally see having just a small sensor module coupled to the cam, connected to a small controller box that drives 4 COP units. The controller has a USB port on it for connection to a laptop, or WiFi for direct tuning from a smart phone app. MAP sensor is also built in to the cam sensor module.

    C|
    I want one, that sounds dooable. Then somebody can design a cool engine cover that hides everything, that may be challanging

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cygnus x-1 View Post
    It definitely works, and considering the technology of the day it's a reasonable solution. It's also an easy bolt on to an existing engine, and because it's cam driven you can do sequential timing. Whereas with a crank sensor you still need a cam sensor if you want full sequential timing (as opposed to wasted spark).

    I can totally see having just a small sensor module coupled to the cam, connected to a small controller box that drives 4 COP units. The controller has a USB port on it for connection to a laptop, or WiFi for direct tuning from a smart phone app. MAP sensor is also built in to the cam sensor module.

    C|

    Engine Position Module (EPM)

    I think that's what the AEM setup does. Just uses a regular encoder.

    Roodoo check out the price!
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Wholy 3geezus thats nice but be damed msrp. How much of that rig is repurposed gmc parts

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    I been researching on this for my car. Hondata has the S300 with the COP kit. RYwire makes a full kit. I will have to save up some more money because the kit cost over 1k for ecu, coils, adaptor and then you would need to tune it. If you want more spark just upgrade your coil, cap and rotor. you can also upgrade to a MSD ignition box. i had one and it was good upgrade that much cheaper.

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    LXi User obd0driver's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MessyHonda View Post
    I been researching on this for my car. Hondata has the S300 with the COP kit. RYwire makes a full kit. I will have to save up some more money because the kit cost over 1k for ecu, coils, adaptor and then you would need to tune it. If you want more spark just upgrade your coil, cap and rotor. you can also upgrade to a MSD ignition box. i had one and it was good upgrade that much cheaper.
    I've been think about this also. I've done a lot of research on this actually. It's really easy and most Honda aftermarket ecu related companies offer something it just cost a arm and a leg. If your in my shoes and kept the stock a20 and went with the dizzy plate you can use any epm that for a Honda. One step closer.

    Here's some things I've read and places I've seen to buy. I have come across them cheaper because they are used but that's about it. The price tag has been the biggest turn off especially since I'm working on boost.

    I'll give me a couple of days and I'll see if Victor from squad engineering knows if cop work on Neptune

    Link's
    Aem kit
    Coil-On-Plug (COP) Conversion Kit - B-Series Honda Engines

    For people like messy running a Hondata s300 already.
    Hondata coil pack retrofit (patent pending)

    Where to blow some cash. They also sale the components separately. Just ever seen the epm for any cheaper.
    Xenocron Tuning Solutions: Coil-On-Plug (COP) Kit - B-Series

    EPM
    Xenocron Tuning Solutions: AEM EPM Engine Position Module
    Last edited by obd0driver; 01-09-2015 at 02:42 AM.

  16. #16
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Also if you look at my post about the wire harness and talk to Carlos he can add the wire and clips need to add the coil pack system to the loom so it's all one harness.

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    The EMP does not work with Hondata. I first want to get my wiring done and later il see what tuning software im going to use.

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  18. #18
    LXi User obd0driver's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by MessyHonda View Post
    The EMP does not work with Hondata. I first want to get my wiring done and later il see what tuning software im going to use.
    True but they have the version of it you just run the stock dizzy for ckp instead of the emp. The you run the coil packs. All work the same. However I'm starting to think it's got it flaws too. you know that the 9sec ldl car that was having trouble break in to the 8sec. The reason he was having trouble is because the car would lose voltage in 4th and the coil pack would fire right. Grant this is a k series and it's a 8sec car but it's still something to think about.

  19. #19
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Cop is by far more superior but Jesus crist . It's so fucking expensive. I have life time warranty on my dizzy I'm good LOL


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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rendon LX-i View Post
    Cop is by far more superior but Jesus crist . It's so fucking expensive. I have life time warranty on my dizzy I'm good LOL
    same here, I like the look of the regular dizzy on an engine too, I guess it's just me being an old fart lol

  21. #21
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    at some point ill get around to doing it just because it hasn't been done on a 3g let alone a A20

  22. #22

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Bump for updates

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Ethan from facebook got his COP set up running.

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  24. #24

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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    I found it messy. Thanks!
    I thought I would use the search so I wouldn't get flamed.... lol!
    I didn't find anything here so went over there.

    Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
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    3Geez Veteran MessyHonda's Avatar
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    Re: Coil on plug (COP) discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rendon LX-i View Post
    Cop is by far more superior but Jesus crist . It's so fucking expensive. I have life time warranty on my dizzy I'm good LOL
    lol look who is COP now. i still want to go with Acel K series coils they are like 15% more spark but cost 620 with Hondata Cop module from xenocron

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