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Thread: PROJECT , Rear Wheel Drive Accord

  1. #1
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    Post PROJECT , Rear Wheel Drive Accord

    Sup people,.. ive been doing a lot of reaserch on turning my 86 accord into a rear wheel drive,. and i found the perfect candidate to take parts from,. a s2000 and a 98-persent v6 accord,. do yall think its possible and do yall think u can merge a s2000 transmission and a v6 accord motor togeather???? and if u think this is possible what do yall think i could use to get it togeather. thanks for your future help!

    Actually i did all of my homework on this i was just getting other peoples ideas,. just about everything will be from a honda s2000 except the engine,. simply because the dimensions on the s2000 and the 1986 honda accord lx 4 door sedan are pretty much the same,. the with,.. is about a inch difference,. so there for u can use a s2000 differential and axels,. but the driveshaft will have to be custom because the accord is so much longer than the s2000. all i really need is to figure out how to hook up a j30a(98-present accord v6 motor) to the s2000 transmission,. which i figured i would have to make a 2 way bracket that will merge the two,.. thats the only thing i can think of,. and it can be done because i seen Jesse James do it on monster garage. i pretty much have everything down and i know almost everything i need to do except the engine and tranny,. the j30a is a lot taller than a a20a1 so i figure i would need to dry sump it instead of the traditional wet sump. I pretty much am willing to put w/e it takes into doing this simply because im yong goofy and have a job. and its really fucking cool! o and if i make it that far im going to try to get a twin turbo the car,. that would be wild.

    well im not even thinking about puting the engine in the back,. that is beyond insane,.. do u have any idea what kinda fabrication and work it would take to get a engine in a 4 door accord? you would have to re-fab the entire rear of the car. thats a lot of crap,. i mean rear engine is a lot cooler and stuff but that would be pushing the borderline of insane and impossible. truetune,. your a lot of help but u got me on if the j30a and the s2000 tranny spin in the same direction, ill have to figure that out later. and what is a w.e motor? u got me on that,. and do u think it would actually fit into the accord engine bay? im kinda iffy about using a american motor,. because most crate motors are cast iron blocks and thats HEAVY! and all aluminum blocks $$$$.....$,. i thought about using a chevy 305 or a 350,. i mean there the same size just different bore. Im glad there are people out there that arent downing my plan and are helping me and i appreciate that. so just keep telling me what u think and helping me out with this engine tranny problem,. because its the only one left!

    ok first of all think about it,. where would u put the eingine in the 4 door accord???? in the trunk,. i dont think so in the back seat,. ha!! good luck,.. the fact of the matter is put the engine where one already is,. and the exhaust,. it kinda runs all the way to the gas tank then turns right,. which means u can run the driveshaft there and cut another hole in the subframe for the exhaust to go or i could do it viper style. when ur doing rear engine rear wheel drive theres a lot of things u have to do that cost a lot more,. like the tranny,.. have u ever seen a ferrari transmission? have u ever seen the price?!?!?!? and it wouldnt take less time to do. why? because u have to gut the entire car and take out the backs seats wich would pretty much say hey this car is seriously modified dont race him,. which pretty much takes all the fun out of what im doing. i can drop the stock gas tank and put the differential there and put the gas tank in the trunk. which is a lot more efficent and less time consuming that gutting the entire rear part of the car and fabing motor mounts and transmission mounts. changing a car from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive is one thing but changing it to rear engine rear wheel drive is a whole different matter and is crossing the border of insane. and the thing with the all wheel drive,. in a honda accord,.? come on have u ever seen a 1986 honda accord up close? do u know how tight things are to reach? have u ever tried to change the alternator in one of thoes? i had to take off the driver side axel just to get to it. its extremely hard to get around in these cars imagine trying to get that thing to be all wheel drive. Ive thought about this for years. there is only pretty much 1 thing i need to figure out and thats how to get the j30a to the s2000 transmission because the bolt pattern is different,.. but let me tell u my complete plan,.. to make a 1986 honda accord rear wheel drive,. look pretty much stock and not heavily modified. keep it all honda,.. and to where it makes well over 400 hp,. this sounds extreme,. but take it from jleno who did the same thing to a american car and jesse james who does crazy stuff if u have the time and the skill then u can do it,. they didnt say that but they damn sure did it.

    you make a good point,. and thats a really cool civic. but my main reason for doing this and thinking about it and everything is because its different,.. im all about difference i dont like having something everyone else has,. like a civic with rims. its all about the uniqueness of this,. no one has ever done it and thats wildly cool,. and its a lot better than buying parts off the shelf of a store and throwing it in ur car and having the same thing someone else has somewhere out there. one op thats what this is about one of a kinda honda accord. i dont want to and dont plan on and wont use a civic or a accord hatchback or anything its gonna be a sedan because its different and not pratical and its one of a kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by phrenology
    Anyway, cool man, do it because aside from talk, is also cheap...so build it tight and build it right. Any a-hole with money can stick bling bling on a car but it takes a true builder/fabricator to pull off the unthinkable. That's really the drive that I see on this board, because there are hundreds of cars that are faster, cheaper and easier to upgrade, and certainly newer than these cars, but I think I speak for all the 3Geers and old school Honda builders when I say we do it for the love of the car...either that or we can't afford a newer car, LOL
    That trully touched my heart,.. that is the best paragraph i think ive ever read. You are a true inspiration to me and this project. lol but seriously i am going to do this im getting the prices now and look for me in the future,. i think this is my calling i have no other interests in anything other than cars. No more talk this is the time for me to walk,. i cant say when i cant say where but i can say look for a rear wheel drive honda in the future. Thanks for all of your replies and special thanks to phrenology. I love this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 12:52 AM.



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    why not just mount the engine in the back?

    It would cost much less than what you are thinking


    well im not even thinking about puting the engine in the back,. that is beyond insane,.. do u have any idea what kinda fabrication and work it would take to get a engine in a 4 door accord? you would have to re-fab the entire rear of the car. thats a lot of crap
    I see the irony in that, you are saying thats alot of crap? Maybe you dont understand what you are trying to do with your car right now. It would probably take less time to do, and cost much less money to do.

    If you are gonna run a shaft to the back, why not go all out and get a transfer case and make it awd?

    I would give this dude more support, but Ive been around boards for a while now, especially on the J-body (sunfire) forums, although its not fair to relate sunfires to accords in any sense I still think the point behind it is relevant.

    There are so many people that I know of on those forums who have all the ideas, all the plans and everything to get a GTP motor into a sunfire, effectively breaking 13's on a stock motor. Its been done, and can be done again as its not the most difficult project. That is something that takes time, research and lots of development ideas to make work. They usually fail when they see how much money labor would cost, then they think they can do it themselves.... basically the end lines leaves people not even buying the motor and doing something with their weak 90hp 2.2L motor.

    Now I dont know you, and I dont know your situation so take this as it is. I mean no disrespect.

    Judging by your writing and attitude on here my personal judging of you is you are <21, probably not making as much money as you are leading on and arent the best mechanic. That was just my initial reaction to you, again meaning no disrespect if I am honestly wrong but I see people like this all the time, they claim they have much more money and are willing to dump it all into their car because they love it. Which can be true on many cases, I am one aswell. But nothing I would spend "up to $20000" on. Honestly with all the potential problems you will run into with a project like this I can tell you that you would rather own a car on the same page as what you are trying to do, and making it fast.
    I wont offer any suggestions because its pointless and you seem to have your heart set on this.

    However, this happens all the time, someone has a $1000 car and they want to do all this stuff to it. Again, I cant really preach as I am falling into this catagory. Theres usually a reason why it hasnt been done before. You will need to do twice as much work as you are planning on right now. Anything of this magnitude always is, even if you do this professionally, with something THIS huge you are bound to run into so many problems you couldnt have possibly seen before.

    I dont mean to jump on your project, honestly, but you have to realize if you arent serious about this and are just all hyped up you are wasting our time, and yours aswell.

    ok first of all think about it,. where would u put the eingine in the 4 door accord???? in the trunk,. i dont think so in the back seat,. ha!! good luck,.. the fact of the matter is put the engine where one already is,. and the exhaust,. it kinda runs all the way to the gas tank then turns right,. which means u can run the driveshaft there and cut another hole in the subframe for the exhaust to go or i could do it viper style. when ur doing rear engine rear wheel drive theres a lot of things u have to do that cost a lot more,. like the tranny,.. have u ever seen a ferrari transmission? have u ever seen the price?!?!?!? and it wouldnt take less time to do. why? because u have to gut the entire car and take out the backs seats wich would pretty much say hey this car is seriously modified dont race him,.
    That sentance makes me shake my head for the IQ I just lost reading it. The tranny should be the least of your worries for one.

    the fact of the matter is put the engine where one already is,. and the exhaust,. it kinda runs all the way to the gas tank then turns right,. which means u can run the driveshaft there and cut another hole in the subframe for the exhaust to go or i could do it viper style.
    Viper style what? its a 500 cid motor through a transmission that is generally located to a differential in the back. If you said something about the newer corvette with the transmission-differential setup that would be different. I just see the viper claim useless.

    and it wouldnt take less time to do. why? because u have to gut the entire car and take out the backs seats wich would pretty much say hey this car is seriously modified dont race him,.
    Well putting in a big engine non transversly (for lack of better word) you will have to push back the firewall or push the frame forward on the front to fit it (depending on the engine length, this might not be so relevant) either modifying the interior or making new body panels to make everything fit. And you dont push back a firewall overnight trust me.

    What about suspension? Might not be too big of a problem if you get an aluminum block motor to replace your cast iron one maybe the weight difference shouldnt mess up the suspension balance. But still, recommended to upgrade none the less.

    Mounting a differential in the back wont be easy, first finding one to fit wont be very easy (if the s2000 is right) because you cant just ask "Yeah I need a differential that I can bolt onto my FWD accord" and get an answer, you will need exact dimensions. But apparently you have all that figured out.

    Now drifing away from that for a minute because I can go on and on, defending the RR/MR idea, you will need to rip out most of the trunk to get the diff on there anyways, including the front end work that will need to be done, with a rear/mid motor setup, you wont have to modify the front at all, except for building it as a "trunk" if you need. Being a sedan is will have its downsides and a hatch would be much better for doing this, but if you dont want heavy modification to the frame and making new mounts for the front and what not, but it would be less work none the less.

    Anyways, your project man, but I dont think you quite realize all that is involved. Its not just taking it off the s200 and hooking it up. You could probably build your own car, rwd from nothing for the amount of time/money you are expecting to pay to do this. And you could make it look like an accord. 20 grand is alot man, why not invest in a house? Something that will hold equity?

    Unless you own McAfee or something or have some good sponsorship I would keep away from this idea.

    To each his own.

    EDIT: And just thinking that the accord was built as a FWD car anyways, its an FWD platform and the chassis was designed that way. You will need some major subframe bracing to keep the engine from twisting the chassis a different way. It might not seem like an issue at first, but when your car starts going sideways when yo uare driving straight with your "400hp motor" that you want. You fucked the chassis good

    Figure out the bellhousings and build an adapter plate? (assuming they are both to spin the same way, and not have 1 forward and 5 reverse gears)
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 12:49 AM.

  3. #3
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    One thing you will need to do is cut out the floor, from the front all the way to the back right in the middle. You might need to cut our some of the front firewall in front for the tranny. Then you will need to fabricate a metal piece over where your drive shaft will need to go. That is a bit of work there, but if you have the tools, money & time, anything is possible. You would need a rear end (differential) & drive shafts too.

    The only thing I see on the a rear mounted motor is the cooling. There are a few cars that have the motor in the back. VW bug & Pontiac Fiero & a few more I can't think of. If you can keep the motor cool, then go for mounting it in the back, would be more cost effecient. Good luck with it.

    Ok...
    Here is what I've come up to do this with this thread.
    The driveshaft will need the body cut out from the front to the rear in the middle. Then a metal piece fabriacated over it. The firewall more than likely needs some cutting out in the front for the tranny. The spline more than likely isn't going to confirm with the motor to tranny, more cutom work could be needed there. The wiring harness will need re-placed for that "particular" motor along with instrument cluster & sensors needed with it.
    The tranny needs a flange to bolt up with the motor. Need a differential & drive shafts. Need custom motor mounts & tranny mounts. Might need to fabricate some pieces to hold the differential & drums assemblies in the rear. The body re-enforced for the torque in the rear. ECU for the motor, gas tank removed & re-located. Exhaust re-routed. Something done with the front rotors. Need a new spindle that will hold rotors independently without a driveshaft. Remove the rack, it will be in the way of tranny. Re-do the steering all together. Probably need a shift linkage. Who know's if you need to cut out a hole for the shifter if it don't line up on the accord. If I come up with more I'll keep editing this post.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 12:53 AM.
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    oh ive never thought of puttin the B in the back thats a new thought eh. but umm comeon get a fiberglass body shell of the 86 and put it on some space frame chasis with like a C4 rear end or 240 rear end and uses something good on gas but light weight like umm a Flippin B16 or H22 you know shit with lots of HP capablity yet is realtively cheep to maintain. you could even use our A20 cuz if you do your shit right you can have a 140HP car go 140mph with out much effort. 1:1 power ratio thats good right? make your own drivers car for cheep with what you got. some of my shit may be wrong so any one feel free to correct me or comment. now sorry to post whore man just given you an angle that you might not have thought of man. gool luck tough would be tight have like a uber fast car right. Keep it real man.

    ok but twin turbos only good for top speed due to spool up time. chevy shit is ceeper and any good shop would be able to make you a custom drive shaft to work with a S2000 defrential so you could have a T400 trans or a tremec 5 speed trans (there bullet proof) with w.e. bell housing to mate it to w.e. motor you choose. 3.4 V6 has vortech super chargers for them I think and the parts would be soo much cheeper all you would need from the S2000 is rear end assembly and shit like that. now how about your front end what are you going to do up there? mustang 2 fornt end kit with tube subframe connected to the unibodie so you can have custom engine mounts?

    The though of how the pree 98 VW bugs are put together comes to mind when I think about this all.

    Ill give you credit for trying to keep it all Honda. Does the J30A have the same rotation as the S2000 trany?
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 12:33 AM.
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimriC
    ok first of all think about it,. where would u put the eingine in the 4 door accord???? in the trunk,. i dont think so in the back seat,. ha!! good luck,.. the fact of the matter is put the engine where one already is,. and the exhaust,. it kinda runs all the way to the gas tank then turns right,. which means u can run the driveshaft there and cut another hole in the subframe for the exhaust to go or i could do it viper style. when ur doing rear engine rear wheel drive theres a lot of things u have to do that cost a lot more,. like the tranny,.. have u ever seen a ferrari transmission? have u ever seen the price?!?!?!? and it wouldnt take less time to do...
    Well if you had an Accord hatchback that would make a midengine set up a lot more practical. My friend and I have thought about mid engine or RWD set up on a 3G Accord for quite awhile, but its just not practial when you have so many great options for mid-late 80's japanese stock RWD and MR sports cars.

    No offense but the Ferrari transmission reference/argument point doesn't make much sense at all. You would mount your j30a engine transversely, like how it sits now, but moved over the rear axel. Working out the shift linkage in reverse would take some work. I do agree that RWD vs MR is probably more approachable given you have the skills and knowledge or someone that has a one-off custom shop (like Jesse James) and a fat roll of cash to pour into the project. IMO: If you really like the idea of transforming a 20 year old Accord into RWD then I would just as well make it into a crazy built-up dragster with a V-8, or keep it japanese, drop an old Datsun/Nissan straight 6 in there and go drifting. I'm not an engine expert but I think both of those options would have give you more tuning options and raw power over a Honda j30a, if you are trying to make a nice sleeper with a lot of power. But hey keep it Honda, why not?

    Let me be the first to say I don't think your idea is crazy or impossible, but like everyone else said it's an expensive little venture and it will not be a piece of cake to do without lots of time, tools, skill, money and experience. Plus I don't know you but my preminitions say that you are not Jesse James nor are you Leno, none of us are...at least not on this board (Reptile might be the closest w/ the $$$) and Johnny-O with his legendary 10 sec. Accord. Even Jesse James and Leno aren't the end all custom builders. Have you seen Jesse James ever properly hook up some EFI controls or sensors??? I think not...even he says that "He's just a glorified welder" A great welder he is, but a one man design/build team he ain't. Anyway that was my rant. Good luck with your build.

    Here are two prime examples of sucessfully modified Hondas that I have posted about a dozen times. Take a look.



    Mid-engine Custom 84'Civic Hatchback





    See how nicely that Acura V6 sits in there

    2G (82') Accord Hatchback RWD w/Chevy Small Block

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimriC
    you make a good point,. and thats a really cool civic. but my main reason for doing this and thinking about it and everything is because its different,.. im all about difference i dont like having something everyone else has,. like a civic with rims. its all about the uniqueness of this,. no one has ever done it and thats wildly cool,. and its a lot better than buying parts off the shelf of a store and throwing it in ur car and having the same thing someone else has somewhere out there. one op thats what this is about one of a kinda honda accord. i dont want to and dont plan on and wont use a civic or a accord hatchback or anything its gonna be a sedan because its different and not pratical and its one of a kind.
    Sure man do a unique project. I think it would humble and impress a lot of people on this board if you actually do the work and have a full Honda-component powered RWD 3rd Gen Accord. No one has a right to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your car or your build, but a lot of the guys on this board including myself are a bit skepticle about when it comes to complete reverse engineering projects of this magnitude. Just look at all the flame dance around the H22 swap stories, and that's just another direct tranverse Honda motor swap and no one seems to have been able to pull that off. My suggestions were merely to give you an idea what people with money, patience, effort and experience have been able to pull off using old school Honda set ups. In the end even if you have a running concept car, that's all that counts if you are trying to test a theory. And in the end you will have a unique car that you can be proud of.

    Everyone I know is still telling me that I'm insane to pour money, time and effort into rebuilding my old 84' Accord hatchback. Most of my friends were like for the money I've invested into my crappy car, I should have gone out and bought a newer used Accord with a bigger motor and working AC, but I refused because I just like my car. To me the 84-85 hatchback is the perfect Accord, its not too big and it's not to small...its not complicated and its a good body style to modify and do a swap with. But most of all it suites me and that's all I care about.

    I don't think you need to prove it to anyone. But I think you'll find that this holds true on most automotive forums and messege boards that "talk is cheap" and everyone will continue to be skeptics until you have solid proof of your build: pics, verified QTs, videos, and firsthand witnesses to your build. So I encourage you to get your idea off the drawing board and onto the pavement. I think it would be awsome to have a total Honda made RWD 3G Accord. Then you could go drifting in a 3G, wouldn't that be something!!! You know you could just dig up an old RWD Celica and paint it like an Accord, LOL

    Actually its kind of odd that Honda has built such a reputation on FWD, well that and badass bikes, boat motors, generators, pretty much anything with a small motor in it and yet they are the only major Japanese auto company to have never broke into the mainstream market with RWD during the 80's and only recently with the S2000 and of course NSX. They have such incredible F-1 technology, and yet no line of Honda "super cars" (yes NSX aside). I wonder how much a slightly used Honda F-1 motor costs???

    Anyway, cool man, do it because aside from talk, is also cheap...so build it tight and build it right. Any a-hole with money can stick bling bling on a car but it takes a true builder or fabricator to pull off the unthinkable. That's really the drive that I see on this board, because there are hundreds of cars that are faster, cheaper and easier to upgrade, and certainly newer than these cars, but I think I speak for all the 3Geers and old school Honda builders when I say we do it for the love of the car...either that or we can't afford a newer car, LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimriC
    That trully touched my heart,.. that is the best paragraph i think ive ever read. You are a true inspiration to me and this project. lol but seriously i am going to do this im getting the prices now and look for me in the future,. i think this is my calling i have no other interests in anything other than cars. No more talk this is the time for me to walk,. i cant say when i cant say where but i can say look for a rear wheel drive honda in the future. Thanks for all of your replies and special thanks to phrenology. I love this site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Haha, I didn't think it was all that moving, but okay. I would like to see more support from members for other peoples projects. For the most part the users on here are extremely supportive and are happy to share their knowledge and wisdom. I guess it just really gets everyone's goat when people (especially newbies) fantasize without being grounded in reality as to what kind of work and money these projects really take. I think its really counter-productive to flame people, but there is certainly a minimal tolerance level for stupid questions and suggestions, when the answers are already out there. I think you'll find things are very generous here, as long as you do your homework, have good intentions and represent yourself well. Use the "search" tool a lot and never be afraid to give and take with your information and your projects. And stay away from the rice...its poisonous to your ride, LOL. That's my best advice.

    I really can't wait to get out to Cali and start work. Eventually I hope I'll have the time and money to devote to finishing my 2G Accord Rally car. When you get your RWD 3G rolling be sure to visit and show it off...I'm sure the Bay Area guys would dig it.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 12:51 AM.

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    Well, don't just throw away your dreams.

    I mean, if they have complete setups for Tegs to make them RWD for $7500...

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    go for it. but why not just take an f20c while you're at it? that way, you don't have to worry about the motor and tranny not spinning the same way. of course, you probably couldn't twin turbo it. so if you were wanting the v6 for twin turb capability and are wanting to reach 400 horses, why not get the c30a? then you can stick a DOHC VTEC sticker on your car instead of just a VTEC. idk, just some ideas. and your budget might decide if you want an f20, j30, or c30 (although it sounds like you're thinking of deep pockets for the project already).

    the c30a was out of the 91-96 nsx (and maybe later) and has about 270 horses from the dohc version. apparently there may also be a sohc version that makes only 200 from the 90-95 legend. there's also a c32a (or maybe b) which is just a bored c30 that has 20 more horses. i believe that's from the 97+ nsx. here go two sites for honda engine codes that might help you in your choice. pick and choose at will. honda engine codes and honda engines.

    btw, it's only 10:45 out here in cali.

    which generation legend are you talking about? because i think the one from the late 80's is fwd, but then 91-96 one is rwd. that's one sick car, and you can get a 6-speed tranny for it. rare, but available. and it's also v6 already. you could probably swap that in easiest since you won't have to worry about engine/tranny not lining up, etc. and you would probably just have to cut the drive shaft to make that part fit. of course, the dimensions may not be the same.

    for the record, i brought up the idea of just using the f20c
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgar_88
    Hey i aint one to talk, but back off this guy and lets all see what he does. I personally couldnt care because it isnt my money and i like both cars. I think we should back this guy and help him 'cause isnt that what this forum is kinda for?, helpin people out with the same interests? I think it would be cool to have what he is wantin to make, and have thought about a CRV AWD set up on my hatchie myself. I havent the means to go about it, but it would be different and cool nonetheless. All in all, provide the support he needs and back him up yall.
    Thanks for saying that,.. i greatly appreciate that

    Quote Originally Posted by bobafett
    no fucking shit you idiot...notice the " " " " " " " " " " " " " 's around accord... im saying if u want a rwd ugly 80s car, buy one, as opposed to the suggested project.
    Your right it is your opinion,.. but the i didnt ask for negativity when i started this,. i asked for help and solutions

    Quote Originally Posted by ShimriC
    Sup people,.. ive been doing a lot of reaserch on turning my 86 accord into a rear wheel drive,. and i found the perfect candidate to take parts from,. a s2000 and a 98-persent v6 accord,. do yall think its possible and do yall think u can merge a s2000 transmission and a v6 accord motor togeather???? and if u think this is possible what do yall think i could use to get it togeather. thanks for your future help!
    See all i asked if yall could help me find a way to merge the engine and tranny,. some how it ended up being this battle of opinions. Do the math,. find a j30a engine and price it,. find the s200 tranny,. the differential,. axels custom driveshaft(propeller shaft) the brakes brake lines and rotors,.. and the suspension arms,.(upper lower arms) just price everything,. that u would need,... it will be far less than $10,000,. Me personally im in school for cnc machinist,.and i can make any kinda custom bracket i need to fit it so that helps,. believe me i know what im doing,. theres no reason to doubt,.. maybe im not the first psycho to think about this or to attempt it but i dont quit when things get rough,. someone had to start somewhere,. like the v8 chevy s10's im sure someone did that before the first person did then it started catching on,. i dont want this to catch on im just giving a example of if u put your mind and money and have the will to do it then it can be done. Have you ever looked at a s2000 and a accord?? have u ever looked at the dimensions there pretty close togeather,. have you ever looked at the underside of a 86 accord? do you notice how the exhaust runs straight back(in the center of the car) to the gas tank? ok now drop the gas tank and get a fuel cell and put it in the trunk., what about the concave where the gas tank use to be? Have you ever seen the differential assembly of the s2000? If not look at it,. it mounts to the underside of car,. there for you can either weld it to the bottom where the gas tank use to be or bolt it there,..there is enough clerance in there to fit the whole assembly,.. if u dont believe me look for urself. the tranny common sence says it wont fit unless u cut something,... sooo cut the hump there the exhaust runs and make it taller to where the tranny can sit nice and snug in there,. then just use the stock tranny bracket and weld or bolt it to the underside of the car... getting the picture? its not as expensive as ur mind makes it out to be,...thats why i say do the reaserch ive done,. figure out all the numbers and dimensions and nicks anc nacks then come back and state ur opinion to me,. do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by modu03
    why don't you just use an s2000 motor for your s2000 tranny. that would make more sense, and the s2000 engine is a better engine anyway. your gonna have to do some major engine mount reworking for either motor to mount up.

    i've seen both engines removed, and the s2000 is a much smaller motor, it weighs less, and gives you the at least the power of the v6. it would be easier to fit and you won't have to modify the tranny, i don't think you can get the s2000 tranny to link up to the v6 anyway.
    I thought about that but woudlnt the s2000 engine be too long to fit in the accord engine compartment???

    Does anyone know how to mount a transmission to a engine it wasnt built for??????????????????

    Quote Originally Posted by FyreDaug
    Figure out the bellhousings and build an adapter plate? (assuming they are both to spin the same way, and not have 1 forward and 5 reverse gears)
    lol that would suck but how do i know if they spin the same direction can u clarify that?

    Quote Originally Posted by lostforawhile
    the motor will fit i believe there is a lot of things the same as far as undercarriage between the two cars. my mistake on the quint integra, in japan it's the accord/acura vigor series. holy crap it's the same car. just saw a picture looks just like a 3g. got to check into this
    I know that much but um do u know a way i can get the s2000 tranny and the c32a to bolt up togeather?
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShimriC
    do yall think its possible and do yall think u can merge a s2000 transmission and a v6 accord motor togeather????
    why don't you just use an s2000 motor for your s2000 tranny. that would make more sense, and the s2000 engine is a better engine anyway. your gonna have to do some major engine mount reworking for either motor to mount up.

    i've seen both engines removed, and the s2000 is a much smaller motor, it weighs less, and gives you the at least the power of the v6. it would be easier to fit and you won't have to modify the tranny, i don't think you can get the s2000 tranny to link up to the v6 anyway.
    87 hatch (stolen)

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    SEi User halxi's Avatar
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    fitting an accord engine and s2000 tranny is impossible. If you want it to function correctly

    to my knowledge, all accords are FWD, even the v6's, thus having transverse mounted motors (like our a20's) which means the tranny does not attach to the rear, but the side.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by halxi
    fitting an accord engine and s2000 tranny is impossible. If you want it to function correctly
    thats a very ingnorant thing to say. It think what you ment to say is that it is impossible without alot of money. with that said here are the pictures of the RWD C32a 92-95 Legend motor and I am not sure what rear end he used, but I hear it was from a vett.
    Last edited by Legend_master; 07-17-2005 at 08:29 PM.
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  12. #12
    3Geez Veteran lostforawhile's Avatar
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    what about that boxy looking civic all wheel drive? the car was so ugly they are in junkyards all over the place. that had an all wheel drive setup. might be worth getting a complete one. the engine is still transverse which would solve the motor crossmember problem. it might mate up with a different civic motor or integra motor. not sure throwing out ideas. i applaud you thinking outside the box. even if it doesn't work at least you attempted to do it.

    would def do the legend swap, it's no cakewalk but not nearly as bad as trying to convert the car to rear wheel drive, measure the engine bay and make sure it's going to fit, on that civic i had to cut off the front end and make it longer i will never try that again. i'm not sure about weight i know the accord has an iron block, i can't remember if the early legend had an aluminum block or not, i believe the weight difference wasn't too bad. i liked that rear engine civic, someone else is as nuts as me.

    the motor will fit i believe there is a lot of things the same as far as undercarriage between the two cars. my mistake on the quint integra, in japan it's the accord/acura vigor series. holy crap it's the same car. just saw a picture looks just like a 3g. got to check into this

    just drive bass ackwards really fast as Johnny Cash would have said "with a little bit of help from an a-daptor kit, we had that engine running just like a song. ' all kidding aside, you'll just have to try, besides you can't use a transaxle with the s2000, a transaxle has the differential built in.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snow_man_20
    save yourself thousands, the time, and the headache. buy yourself a 240
    Haha My favorite post of the whole thread! I don't know the guys name but their was a guy that tried to compete in the '04 FD series with a rwd integra. He used a b20 (I believe) with the awd transmission and just took off the front trans-axles. Since guys have at least been able to do a b20 conversion to our cars, that might be the better route to go then the f20 which no-one has attempted.(to the best of my recollection) Heck! I bet if you could find the integra guys phone number he would probably give you some hints or advice! Seeing as though he's not trying to sell his "invention" and is no longer competing. Check out superhonda.com forums. I'm sure they would be able to give you better insight on this just make sure you DON'T tell them that you drive a 3g. Just my .02 you would still have to change to a fuel cell and cutstom exhaust. Not sure about the suspension but, most likely.

    Remember that you can always cut out some of your floorpan/fire wall and make a new firewall and floor pan that will let you fit the bigger tranny under the car. Like this _/''''''\_ rather then _____. I know that my gramps had to do that all the time in the 60's w/ his muscle cars. He always tells me the story of the 454 in a Vega.
    Hope this helps a tad. I don't know how serious you are about this but hopefully this could help you a tad.
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  14. #14

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    the engine rotation issue would depend on the differential set-up, would it not? assuming the tranny output shaft turns with the crankshaft, a clockwise rotation would dictate the pinion be on the left of the ring gear and vice versa...or did i mess that up?
    ICHIBAN!
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    I dunno, I was thinking of making mounts for my A20 block (no trans) to mount it sideways just to get an idea of what kind of room we would have, what kind of header we can run, namely one from a chevy modified to fit, and where the trans will be located, but I dunno if I should go over the steering rack or drop the rack lower. Well see. This is just a test.
    I'm thinking in the front of our car, the hood would close on the valve cover if the motor isn't far back enough, but then our motor tilts, which something I wish to keep since that will be closer to matching the tilt on V8 exhaust ports and also allow the motor to have a lower height profile.
    Does out motor spin the right way or will we be doing everything in reverse, I don't want to think that the A20 would end up needing to add more weight just to reverse the direction of the crank before it reaches a trans. All that rotational mass will make our car seem like it weights a ton more then it should.
    But I guess having the motor sideways will bring back the possibility to run a JR-Supercharger. Even that will be a drain on the already limited power of the motor.
    shoot, thats what I figured... I know you could make two gears, one for the crank shaft and one to go on the trans, then automatically the trans will spin clockwise while our motor turns counter-clockwise. It's an interising thing cause making room for the gears means you can offset the trans higher or lower then the engine, which would allow you to lower the engine and raise the trans, all helping in some small way to get clearance.
    The tilt of the motor will be the natural tilt of the A20 which is 15*
    Or do you mean when the car is moving... how the g forces and such will affect oil pickup, cause of the oil pans design. I'm not going to tilt the motor past it's original point cause I'd still like to use the stock carb manifold.
    I figure I could use the A/C bracket mount on the motor and from there build up a mount either to the side or to the front.
    I believe the rear dog bone braces that connect to the motor can be utilised in some fashion since most of the motor mounts will end up being on the passenger side of the motor. The top engine mount by the head on the pully side is qustionable, if I can I'd rather not use it to give more access to the belts. The rear mount... well there is a spot by the A20A1 name plate with 3 hefty bolt holes that can me my rear mounting point. But like I mentioned before the whole other (now drivers side) side of the motor is without a motor mount or brace... so well see. Maybe the Alternator brace and previous rar mount bolt holes can offer some assistance.
    I'd rather make the mounts so that they can be bolted to an unmodified frame, that way when I'm done with them I can pass them along.
    I think the biggest dellima besides tans location and mating, would be the distributor and thermostat housing.
    Any initial mounts would have to be solid mounts to rule out sagging from weak urethane of other absorbtion coumpounds... I want to get a string from the rear of the car and pull it through the middle of the car, through the firewall and to the front. I'll measure and make sure it's height from the floor is fairly even.
    I'll use that line and the surface of the firewall as a means of keeoing the engine fairly level and straight.
    If there was a way to make a reverse output shaft for a clockwise trans, maybe it would have to be independent of the trans or engine lubrication... the gears to reverse the output would for the most part bolt in the nook where the flywheel would be and add a few inches of length to make it's own new flywheel enclosure and bolt holes for the trans that would be used. Anyways the oiling of the gears will operate as a turbo oiling setup would perhaps... but it would probably require it's own restriction for the oil drain to the pan so that the return line doesn't bleed off pressure...
    Quote Originally Posted by smufguy
    Mike, see if your skillz can include a Motor in it to find out the orientation. That would make a lot of sense to me with the motor in the picture.
    I added a new pic, it doesn't show the engine tilting 15* towards the passenger side like it should. The belts will be at the front of the car.
    Would it be possible to remove the differential from our car and move it to the rear... cut up some of the trans that we needed to house the diff and somehow run a drive shaft / pinion to the ring gears from our trans to the differential. I need to look at our trans more but if we could use our trans an differential it would save some of a headache... I wonder If I can modify from suspension parts to the rear... I'll be converting to rear disks at the same time I'm making room for axles.
    I'd rather use as much of the accord parts cause then the lengths and such are already suited for the car.
    I'll post another diagram as I understand it myself... it'll take a bit.
    I was thinking from the countershaft on the Auto Trans to the Differential ring gear.
    Use a dud diff ring gear with the differental gears removed and one side of the axle output sealed off... the other axle will become the output from the dud ring gear to the ring gear on the relocated diff at the rear.
    I think if you have a drive shaft between the engine and trans then the drive shaft will spin much faster then it should right? I'm not sure.
    OMG look at the price of front calipers
    LINK
    $11,749.77

    Hmm, Why not mount the engine in the back... hmm. how much easier would that be... well cept for having to do some mods to the sifter linkage.
    I mean all this trouble with restructuting the car from back to front... and the weight distribution is bad enough at the rear with the weight reduction I did.
    Engine placement will be dictated by there the wheels center is... hopefully the rest of the car will be nice to me.
    Well, the rear doors are the new side hoods... I could make air vents in them or something.

    I'm hoping this will work... if I remove some parts from the rear knuckle and install them on the front knucle. I'm worried though about things getting in the way of the axle... I'm pretty sure as long as I keep both rear arms untouched that the wheel allignment wont be off... I may need a camber adjusting upper arm though.
    EDIT: I may need to swap the front left knuckle to the rear right knuckle... this is because the callipers would need to be on the other side of the disk brake... I think.
    I added the pic up with the other pics... However the image shows the front left knuckle merged with parts of the rear left knuckle, so it doesn't reflect the swapping of the caliper positions.
    Well I'm at the planning stage.
    Here is what I got so far:
    • - Lower Front Cross Member / Beam / Rack Using Spacers & Longer Bolts - Aproximately (-4" to -5") From Original Mouting Base, however 4" is a huge gap to cover, so perhaps I'll do (-1" to -2") since I want to lower my car and I can live with a 3" high bulge in the hood for the valve cover, possibly a hood cowl.
    • .
    • - Move Front Radius Rod From Above Arm & Resecure Using Spacers & Longer Bolts Below Arm - Aproximately (-1 to -2" or More) From Original Mounting Base.
    • .
    • - Create Dummy Differential to Power Driveshaft from trans. Relocate Trans Differential to rear.
    • .
    • - Substitue rear suspension components with spare front suspension, Use stock axles, may need to swap left and right side axles.
    • .
    • - Hybrid Front/Rear Knuckles, Left and Right knucles swap places to place callipers ar rear of disk.
    • .
    • .
    • .

    .
    .
    The Way I see it is I can either lower the Rear Steering Rack and Have the Engine Sit Over That, or I can Lower the Font Beam and Have the Pullies Sit over that. It should give me the 21" I need to fit the block in and bring the block low enough to allow for hood clearance. Remember the trans will not mount directly in line with the crank. it will be higer then the crank to allow for the gear to switch out CounterClockwise output to a Clockwise output for the RWD Trans. I will need room for the Adapter trans to block, this will push the trans further back so I'm assuming I will have to move the engine forward some to make up for that gap.
    The interior Seats will have to be spaced closer to the doors, there will be a considerable bulge the entire length of the car for the trans and for the drive shaft. New support beams will have to be added to make up for the loss of floor structure.
    .
    .
    .
    .
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  16. #16
    3Geez Veteran smufguy's Avatar
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    our motors spin counterclockwise which is already unconventional.

    The only problem we will encounter by tilting is that the oil pickup would be a little out of place. It can be modded, but woudl it be okay once the engine is running and everything properly lubed?

    Mike, see if your skillz can include a Motor in it to find out the orientation. That would make a lot of sense to me with the motor in the picture.

    that looks interesting bro. the other thing which is a minor cosmetic is to get a different intake manifold to have the TB facing forward and see how we can get the side motor mounts (most probably two, one on each side) to sit. also the shift linkage needs to be designed so we can actually change gears but its gonna be a little akward trying to make a shifter linked to the side of the left of the tranny (with the above picture shown). It would take a lot of customizing to make it actually driveable.

    So in my opinion, i think a motor/tranny swap from a rwd car like the s2000 would be a better choice.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:16 AM.

  17. #17
    LX User 88eyeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    If there was a way to make a reverse output shaft for a clockwise trans, maybe it would have to be independent of the trans or engine lubrication... the gears to reverse the output would for the most part bolt in the nook where the flywheel would be and add a few inches of length to make it's own new flywheel enclosure and bolt holes for the trans that would be used. Anyways the oiling of the gears will operate as a turbo oiling setup would perhaps... but it would probably require it's own restriction for the oil drain to the pan so that the return line doesn't bleed off pressure...
    You ***MIGHT*** be able to use a type of idler gear, but how it could be setup I'm not sure of.

    Edit: a reversal in the differential output direction might allow you to bolt the tranny directly to the motor, but you would run into the same problem when you tried to reverse the differential. it would probably be more cost effective to use the s2000 motor and tranny, like smufguy said.

    you might lose a little torque if you ran a driveshaft to the trans, theoretically. but it should turn the same speed if it is drectly mounted to the flywheel. it seem that that would cause problems with clutch operation in our cars, though...i'm having a little problem visualizing that part.

    just out of curiosity, how were you planning to attach the axles to the rear discs? that woud require cv joints since we have indep. rear suspension.

    use a 3sgte from an mr2

    seriously though, putting the engine in the rear of the car would probably be the most efficient way of getting it done. it would just look more like stock if it was up front...
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:22 AM.
    Four cars (and one motorcycle) in three years and not one with a cupholder...this is the story of my life.

  18. #18
    SEi User Strugglebucket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    Would it be possible to remove the differential from our car and move it to the rear... cut up some of the trans that we needed to house the diff and somehow run a drive shaft / pinion to the ring gears from our trans to the differential. I need to look at our trans more but if we could use our trans an differential it would save some of a headache... I wonder If I can modify from suspension parts to the rear... I'll be converting to rear disks at the same time I'm making room for axles.

    I'd rather use as much of the accord parts cause then the lengths and such are already suited for the car.
    I'll post another diagram as I understand it myself... it'll take a bit.
    moving the transmission to the rear would help your weight ratio, kind of like a porsche 944. could you run a driveshaft straight from the clutch disc to the mainshaft? it would be a pretty steep angle though, might put too much strain on a u-joint.

    i'm not sure either. the sheer magnitude of this project kind of boggles my mind. it might be worth researching some cars with front engine/rear transmission setups, although i don't know of any off the top of my head besides the 944.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 01:24 AM.
    Originally Posted by Justanothermike
    my A20 is not SLOW. ur A20 is slow.

  19. #19
    SEi User phrenology's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    Would it be possible to remove the differential from our car and move it to the rear... cut up some of the trans that we needed to house the diff and somehow run a drive shaft / pinion to the ring gears from our trans to the differential. I need to look at our trans more but if we could use our trans an differential it would save some of a headache... I wonder If I can modify from suspension parts to the rear... I'll be converting to rear disks at the same time I'm making room for axles.

    I'd rather use as much of the accord parts cause then the lengths and such are already suited for the car.
    I'll post another diagram as I understand it myself... it'll take a bit.
    Those are some pretty nice looking diagrams...keep up the good work. It looks good on paper, but challenges lay ahead in the clearances, mounts, and transmission issues. Finally some real tech specs on this project as opposed to the several pages of nonsense that proceed it. Go mike!

    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    Hmm, Why not mount the engine in the back... hmm. how much easier would that be... well cept for having to do some mods to the sifter linkage.

    I mean all this trouble with restructuting the car from back to front... and the weight distribution is bad enough at the rear with the weight reduction I did.

    Engine placement will be dictated by there the wheels center is... hopefully the rest of the car will be nice to me.
    Hmmm look into that one. It would be great if the rear seat pan could craddle the motor with little modification. Mid-engine sedan? I like but you'll have to work on a rear firewall and bye bye use of rear doors. Maybe you'de be better off with a coupe or hatchback for mid engine set up?

    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    Here is the method I planed to use to merge the two knuckles together...

    I assume if I keep the front and rear tires alligned that I wont have to worry about messing with the axle length I'm using.

    The jig pictured is not the complete jig, I didn't add in the part for the lower arm to go. It should give you an Idea though.
    That looks good but how are you going to attach the bottom of the knuckle to the trailing suspension arm at the rear or are you completely doing away with the existing rear suspension? If you wanted to go ape-shit you could look at the rear wheel steering knuckles from the 4WS Prelude. Have you seen those up close? It has a second hydrolic rack system but the rear wheels only turn a few degrees. It was a similar suspension set up to the 3G Accords, I think? I didn't look super close cause I'm usually only searching for technology that I can adapt to my 2G.
    Last edited by A20A1; 08-17-2005 at 04:38 PM.

    "The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer

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  20. #20

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    The top and lower arms should be the same.. unless one of the arms interfers with the axle... the spring/strut will have to be moved though.
    The jig will include as much of the rear knuckle mounting points as it can.
    I'll cut those parts off, leave them in the jig and weld them to the front knuckle.
    I wasn't able to draw all of that in the pic....
    Lower Arm A & Lower Arm B will be welded together... then on one of the arms will sit the support for the strut/shock/spring.

    Question is, is there enough room for the front knuckle's axle hole to fit and still allow the bolt for rear lower arm A & B to fit?
    The bolt passes very close... in fact If I were to merge the two knuckles I may be biting into the bolt hole... I'll have to wait till I can remove them to see for sure.
    - llia


  21. #21
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    Wow man you're really taking this project to heart. Keep at it. Are you going to attempt this project on your own Accord or are you working with a dummy Accord? If you make this thing work I think you deserve a prize!

    "The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer

    "speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by phrenology

    Wow man you're really taking this project to heart. Keep at it. Are you going to attempt this project on your own Accord or are you working with a dummy Accord? If you make this thing work I think you deserve a prize!
    I've only got one left.
    But I have two motors... if only I had two transmissions I could stick the other on in the back and leave one up front. 4wd baby! Thought I'd need spare suspension and motor mounts. and another set of axles.
    I was measuring the distance between the rear strut towers...
    39.25" ___ 996.0 mm ___ Rear
    37.50" ___ 952.5 mm ___ Front

    Brand New thought :
    I've deciced to use the lower damper mount on the rear knuckel as the new support for the lower arms.
    I support the car
    I remove the rear strut/damper assembly
    I start off by adding two metal flat bars on the inside of the lower rear arms. These bars will have a hole in them to use the fram mounting bolt for the lower arm... I'll try and keep the lower arm installed to maintain allignment.
    From there the flat bars will be angled down to meet the bolt for the lower damper mount. On the bolt wil be 4 spacer washers... two will be welded to the Knuckle, the other 2 will be welded to the flat bars.
    Now the lower arms can be removed and cut... now the length of the lower arms can be adjusted to meet the lenght of the flat bars. With the lower arms welded back together we can now use the same bolt originally used for the lower arms to connect to the knuckle but between each arm and the new mounting point will be spacers.
    This little deviation will give greater room to have the axle fit...

    Nah, I've switched to a mid engine RWD setup.
    - llia


  23. #23
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by A20A1
    I've only got one left.
    But I have two motors... if only I had two transmissions I could stick the other on in the back and leave one up front. 4wd baby! Thought I'd need spare suspension and motor mounts. and another set of axles.

    I was measuring the distance between the rear strut towers...

    39.25" ___ 996.0 mm ___ Rear
    37.50" ___ 952.5 mm ___ Front
    I'd help you out cause I have a treasure trove of A20/3G shit back in FL...but I'm here, the stuff is back there, and you're waaaaaaay over there. Damn geography. Yeah if it didn't cost like $$$ to send it your way and I was back in FL you could have all my extras. Maybe you should work on a matter transport device first then you can have all my 3G stuff and transport my friggin' car here. I miss my car...waahahaha, damn California.

    "The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer

    "speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning

  24. #24
    SEi User gr3k0sLaV's Avatar
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    Mike, I respect you and all and I think your a smart bloke. But seriously maybe this project isn't really worth it? I have no doubts that this is possible and do-able.

    How much is it going to end up costing you in the end? and is it really worth it?

    As someone pointed out there are a number of other 80's RWD japanese sports cars to use as a platform. Maybe this project just isn't worth the effort.

    Another annoying matter is the distributor (in a RWD setup) would be touching the firewall.

    And transmission wise you'd obviously need to have a custom bellhousing.

    Curse the asshole who invented Front Wheel Drive.

    Nothing wrong with modding the accord, but maybe this is going too far.
    Cocaine's A Helluva Drug! - Rick James
    I really fracked things up for you Bill - Colonel Tigh
    Girl we couldn't get much Higher! - Light My Fire

  25. #25
    SEi User phrenology's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by gr3k0sLaV
    Curse the asshole who invented Front Wheel Drive.
    That would be the guys that invented the original Mini... Great little car but you just gotta hate the transversally mounted engine... :flipa:
    You know it was the very first production FWD car on the market. The Japanese just perfected the art of FWD and managed to cram even more shit under the hood.

    "The Future is Unwritten" -Strummer

    "speed costs money, so gaffer tape and cable ties will suffice"-Peasant Tuning

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