asking for advice on how to bulid a20

[snoopyloopy]

i only have cold air intake,4th gen sensor, adjustable cam gear and exhuast with cat and muffler and my car is making 3 more hp to the crank than stock.....and my engine has 147k miles on it.

hahaha

but yes, like messy said, get the full compliment of bolt-ons. header, intake, exhaust, cam gear, cam, and b16 im should just about max out bolt-ons. you could do that on the engine you have now if it's running good and strong. do a compression test and if it check out ok, i wouldn't worry too much about a rebuild or replacement motor just yet.

[MessyHonda]

^^^^lol....one day i will be making b20 power on my a20

[hanginbyaccord]

yea , I might just do that. a compression check. What should it check out too? I still want to doa rebulid just so I know everything is good.

[rjudgey]

Short Shifter - pacesetter with modified main pipe to 2.25"
Clutch,Pressure Plate, Flywheel - clutchnet all the way
Spark Plugs & Wires - I like Nology silver resistorless plugs splitfire leads
Cam Gears - See group buy if any left
Cams - anything with 272 degrees or more of duration and 10-11mm lift
Intake Manifold - custom with ITB's or Weber DCOE's
Pulleys - Just use stock and have the P.S. and A/C pulleys machined off and fit a trigger disk for aftermarket ingnition
Throttle Body - won't need one as you'll have four
Radiator Hoses - stock are fine just get new ones
Lifters - oem are fine upto 8500rpm you have no choice anyway
Motor Mounts/Inserts - Beef up the bushes in the torque bar on top of engine i used duck tape wrapped around the bush then used some wd40 on it and bashed it in place with metal mallet
Piston Rings - Sealed power, or total seal if you can get away with burning a bit of oil (race use only really unless your hardcore)
Rocker Arms & Studs - same as lifters stock are fine
Valve Springs, Retainers - upto 8k rpm carbed 2nd Gen prelude springs and retainers
Injectors - won't need em if using webers or ITB's can have any size
Fuel Pump - Not sure what are good makes in U.S. Facet maybe or Holley?
Fuel Rail - will come with ITB's or webers use rubber hose nice and cheap!!
Radiator - Stock new one or rebuilt are still more than upto job as copper cored
Connecting Rods - eagle H rods for B18 steel or better titanium
Head Bolts - Convert to studs using ARP
Head Gasket - honda gaskets are rubbish use Felpro Blue only
I want to port and polish the head, any advice? Look on my cardomain site that will give you some ideas then send me a e-mail
Raise or Lower Deck Height? - Shave the head and deck .5mm on deck upto1mm on head but you'll need the cam pulley to correct timing on camshaft
How Many angle valve job? 5 angles with radiused edges

Added to your list:
Valves - exhaust valves converted to inlet valves at 33mm custom made exhaust valves at 37mm in diameter
Pistons - Forged using 83mm bore size pistons from B18 teggy engines custom crowns with flat top and only 3 matching valve pockets from JE or Wiseco will do
Wrist pins - custom titanium from Paeco
Ignition - Mega Jolt if carbed or injection with Megasquirt for ECU for EFI

That little lot with a good tune will see you to nearly 250bhp at the flywheel but will set you back probably around $7-10k in parts and machining work alone depending on who you know and prices you can get.

If you want 200bhp flywheel which is bit more easily and a lot more cheaply attainable then you need the following

Engine re-built with stock Honda parts, honda rods shot peened and polished with titanium wirst pins, all rotating assembly all balanced and piston rings from Sealed power hand gapped to the best end gap possible (will give you specs), little extra bore clearance on the piston to cylinder gap.
Block is still decked .5mm
Head still shaved 1mm
Headwork still with big valve conversion little bits of welding, 5 angle radiused valves seats and custom inlet manifold like the one on my cardomain site
ITB's or Webers
Pacesetter Header with 2.25" main pipe conversion
2.25" mandrel bent exhaust or better design a straight through and out the middle setup
Camshaft with cam gear
Ignition and ECU if going ITB's
Rev limiter set at 7-7500rpm any higher stock rods will break at the neck
Air cooler for engine oil
Teggy gearbox conversion with lsd maybe
Still use clutchnet kit
And reinforce engine mounts
The above will be good for easily 200bhp with someone who can tune the Air to fuel ratio properly if you have to run a cat then maybe a little less. All depends how good the headwork turns out really can make a difference of making only 190bhp to making 210bhp!!

So there you go i have spoken P.S. if you rag on the engine a lot and don't stick to 7krpm the stock honda rods if new will last about 30-40k miles before they'll snap off at the neck you don't need ARP rod bolts stock ones are as strong if not stronger than ARP ones. If you use titanium wrist pins this will increase mileage and rpm limit on stock rods as they have a lot less weight on the top of the rod necks compared to steel pins.

[cygnus x-1]

I want to rebulid it but that would probally cost more than buying a running engine and just putting it in. If I do decide to rebulid the motor in my car where would I start? how much am I looking at ? what all would need to be done? hone ? It has 266K on it but runs perfect, could I rebulid it to make it more stronger and etc?

Dropping in a running engine will always be cheaper, but that's because it's a used engine. When you rebuild you have effectively a new engine.

As for whether or not to rebuild the engine you have now; I would say no. I say this because junkyard engines are dirt cheap, and you can take your time working on the rebuild while still driving the car. Then when you're ready just swap engines. I found a complete engine for $90 on ebay that was within 2 hours drive. Now in my case I was unlucky and couldn't use that block because it needed too much of a rebore to be able to use OEM Honda pistons. Had I used after market pistons it would have been fine though (long story).

You could take your chances and try to find a good low mileage engine and just do a few mods to it and then drop it in. But again, it will be a used engine and the chances of something going wrong are higher. And if you only want to do a few mods then you may as well just use the engine you have already.

Cost will vary greatly depending on the work that needs to be done and what parts you put into it. Assembly is pretty straightforward, but can you do machine work yourself? Valve grinding, cylinder honing/boring, head porting, balancing? Those are the things that really jack up the cost. If you look at the link I posted it has the cost listed for the machine work that I had done during my rebuild. As for total cost, it could run from maybe $500 for just a simple gasket/re-ring job to many thousands for a high performance race build. These are very rough cost estimates though as it's impossible to predict the cost unless you have a plan for what parts and work are needed.

C|

[hanginbyaccord]

thanks

[89T]

Pistons - Forged using 83mm bore size pistons from B18 teggy engines custom crowns with flat top and only 3 matching valve pockets from JE or Wiseco will do
Wrist pins - custom titanium from Paeco

for clarification purposes, You are saying 83mm b18 pistons and rods are a direct fit for the a20 or they are a direct fit with modification to the valve pockets.
the reason i ask is this is a huge Grey area in this forum.

[rjudgey]

Depends on the rods your going to use, if your going to get aftermarket rods the piston pins are different size so an option is to get B18 pistons but as the crowns are designed for 16 valve they'll be different positions and extra pocket for the extra valve that we don't have. To be honest your just better off ordering the ones from Diamond if your after high CR then get them to make a set with just 3 valve pockets and not 4 to keep it nice and high as possible, if your turbo charging then doesn't matter go with the design they have allready.
Some one here has checked B18 rods with B18 pistons the height checked out fine it was just because it was a smaller B18 piston so was real sloppy in the cylinder which was 82.75mm. but B18 pistons can be bought in 83mm over size so in theory this would fit but as i said you'd have to get blank crowns and have them custom pocketed to get a nice fit and CR ratio.

[89T]

don't get me wrong i do have 10.5:1 JE pistons with Eagle H beam rods. I am looking for definite clarification on this for the 3geez community it self.
i also was questioning why my pistons were made with 4 valve pockets.(you answered that for me thanks)
I purchased the JE pistons from a member on 3geez, and i lost the box and documentation when i moved. I am going to start another turbo build and this would point me in the right direction for my next set.

To be fair: b18a/b 83mm pistons adjoined with proper b18a/b aftermarket rods will defiantly work for an A20 build.

you have enlightened me and the community my thanks to you sir!

[MessyHonda]

the only thing is that...you wont know what the CR will be with aftermarket b-series pistons...i seen some go as high as 12:1

[89T]

the bore and stroke will be the same,the only difference would be the head volume.
anyone know the cc difference between the two?