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Thread: honda prelude dirt track car

  1. #1
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    honda prelude dirt track car

    Hey everyone,
    I have a (i think) 90 prelude 4ws with a a20a3 engine in it but i believe it has the a18a head with dual carburetors, bought it that way and i havent even tried tinker with it except for the fueling. I want to know what kind of performance/ benifits/ tips i could recieve from everyone here. I would love to do an engine swap (as everyone else out there runs 94 eclipses and 94 preludes that have efi and chips) but simply i want to try to out run the mods they have with a n/a build. The rules behind the build though are max compresion 180lb hot off the track, no vtec, no awd, stock steel flywheel no mods to it, no turbo/ supercharger, no alcohol fuel, we could lock the differential, and change gear ratio and do anything that is not listed above lol. I think the track is a 1/4 or 1/8 mile circle dirt track. If some of you that have done a build or have any tips let me know i would greatly appreciate it, ill post pics of the car as soon as i get them off my phone. Thanks!
    Last edited by mikal34chez; 05-29-2014 at 11:57 PM.



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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Welcome... i am also new here...
    Waiting your pics...

  3. #3

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Swap in a complete intake, wiring harness from a b18a (ls integra) with all sensors. You will need a a20a3 exhaust manifold with the o2 sensor bungs. Also get a d16 distributer. you can modify it to work on your head. Dont forget thw ecu from the integra. Next would be engine management. Crome, hondata, or Neptune.

    It's not as easy as it sounds but all the info is on the board.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Post the rule book, I'll find the exploits.

    3rd gen Preludes never came with carbs in the US, and they all came with a B series "bastard B" engine. 4WS only came on 3rd gen and 4th gen cars, IIRC.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky View Post
    Post the rule book, I'll find the exploits.

    3rd gen Preludes never came with carbs in the US, and they all came with a B series "bastard B" engine. 4WS only came on 3rd gen and 4th gen cars, IIRC.
    B20a3 was carbed, I just learned this myself recently, allegedly is sohc as well! It came in prelude S, im not sure about distribution sales.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Mini stock rules 2014

    Definition
    The work “STOCK” will mean unaltered and as originally factory produced and installed for year, make and model.

    Competing Models
    1994 or older American or Foreign cars, 2-door or 4-door. Front engine cars only.
    NO vans, convertibles, Jeeps, mid-engine, rear engine, two seat sport or exotic models (i.e. MR2, Porsche, VW, Etc.) allowed. CRX & similar models subject to official’s approval.
    Maximum wheelbase~ 108”. No bolt on tops allowed. No fiberglass or kit cars.
    Four (4) cylinder engines only. No 4-Wheel drive. Dual overhead cams, ok. Skid plates are allowed. NO all-wheel drive.
    Pickup trucks OK, but must conform to all Mini Stock mechanical rules.
    Must be a mini truck. 6’ bed max; tail gate required: metal cover over the bed required; and fuel tank must be filled from inside bed.

    Weight
    Every competing car must weigh at least one (1) pound for each cc of engine displacement, with a min. weight of 2300 lbs. for Rear Wheel drive cars and 2400 lbs. for Front Wheel drive cars. Added weight must be block shaped, painted white and have the car number on the weight. Weight must be fastened inside body panels to frame or roll cage.
    Engine displacement in cc’s must be lettered on the front fender near the windshield post

    Engine
    Front Wheel Drive cars must have stock factory engine and components. O.E.M. parts ONLY.
    No engine interchanges between makes of cars. No rotary engines allowed.
    Stock factory carburetors ONLY. No racing equipment of any kind. Fuel injection OK, if O.E.M. equipped. No modification of any kind to either carburetor or fuel injection system. Aftermarket Air Cleaner lids allowed.
    Rear Wheel Drive Cars. No engine interchanges between makes of cars. NO rotary engines allowed. Fuel injection ok, if O.E.M. equipped. May use a Holley Carburetor up to and including a 500 cfm. May remove choke plate only. Nothing else may be altered on Carburetor.
    Factory delivered fuel systems only.
    Stock steel flywheel. No aluminum, cutting or special racing type flywheels allowed.
    Engines must be in the stock position.
    Front Wheel Drive cars to have O.E.M. intake and exhaust manifolds only.
    Rear Wheel Drive cars to have O.E.M. intake and may have an aftermarket header installed.
    Mufflers and tail pipes mandatory, with a rating of 95 decibels at 100’.
    Cranking compression, hot off of the track 180lbs.
    No Turbo or Super Chargers Allowed
    No Alcohol Fuel Allowed

    Bodies
    Must be complete and stock, including bumpers and all sheet metal. Cars must remain stock in appearance. Dents should be straightened for a clean appearance. Stock steel roof mandatory,
    No bolt-on.
    Inner body panels may be cut out.
    Grill may be replaced with wire screen.
    Removal of all plastic and upholstery required
    All doors must be welded shut or riveted shut.
    No external reinforcing bars.
    Factory body components only. Stock appearing nose pieces allowed.
    No car will be allowed to run without hood in place.
    Hoods and truck lids may be outer skin.
    22 Gauge metal appearing to be OEM may be allowed for body panel replacement

    Firewalls
    Rear Firewall: A metal rear firewall, built with min. (1/32) thickness steel or (1/8) inch aluminum. Must be securely installed and completely closed off the truck compartment. All holes to be sealed.
    Front Firewall: All holes in engine firewall must be covered with same Spec. metal as rear firewall and securely fastened.
    Front Firewall must be in stock location.

    Frame
    Stock. No alterations.
    Reasonable front frame or radiator protection OK. Must be concealed.

    Bumpers
    Bumpers must be welded or bolted to frame horns and to frame. Bumper straps required front and rear. NO Exceptions. Max. Size 2”X8”X1/8” affixed from bumper to quarter panel.
    Warning. Cars losing REAR bumpers will be black flagged for the remainder of the race.

    Roll Bars
    FOUR-POINT ROLL BAR REQUIRED…. Four-point “cage type” roll bars shall be a minimum of 1 ¼” .095 wall, 1 ¾” OK tubing. Base of upright members shall be solidly electric welded to frame rails of car. Cage shall be braced to rear frame kick ups and diagonally side to side between front and rear cage uprights on driver’s side, overlapping outside of upright bars. These may be connected vertically as well. Inside door panel may be removed to accommodate side bars. A center overhead bar is required, running fore and aft between transverse members connecting uprights. Gussets must be used at joints of all principal members.

    Transmissions
    Must be stock.
    Drive lines must have safety straps at front and rear of drive shaft made of metal straps of 3/16” by 1” Min. size.

    Drive Axle
    Must be stock. Make of vehicle. No floaters or quick change.
    Locked up Differential’s OK. May be locked up by welding of spider gears or min spool.
    Gear ratio optional.

    Suspension
    Aftermarket steel stock mounted Non Adjustable, Non Rebuildable shocks OK.
    No cutting, heating or modifying of components.
    No relocating of suspension parts. OEM location only.
    No adjustable suspension parts.
    No weight jacks. No coil overs allowed.


    Steering
    Steering quickeners allowed.

    Brakes
    Factory stock. Hydraulic on all four wheels if original specs provided for hydraulic. Disc if specs provided for disc. No brake shut off valves permitted.

    Wheels
    Front Wheel Drive: Steel wheels not to exceed 7” wide.
    Rear Wheel Drive: Steel wheels not to exceed 8” wide
    No oversized wheels which have an increased circumference of the bead flange.
    14” wheels OK for use on cars that had 13” wheal OEM
    OEM factory aluminum wheels ok.
    All four wheels to be same back spacing and width.

    Tires
    Front Wheel Drive: Maximum 7” tread width
    Rear Wheel Drive: Maximum 8” tread width
    No grooving or shaving of any kind.
    Must be street legal DOT approved tires.
    All four tires to be the same size.
    No aggressive tread patterns. All tires subject to approval.
    No racing tires.
    ALL tire pressures must be minimum of 15 lbs

    Radiator
    Only one (1) radiator.
    Must mount in stock position.
    No fill holes cut in hood; hood must close in stock position.

    Electrical
    Any 12 volt battery permitted. Battery must be moved to inside of vehicle, must be fully enclosed if in driver’s compartment, and must be securely fastened to floor or roll cage.
    Ignition to remain stock. No MSD components or equal allowed.
    Kill switch must be labeled and visible and easily reached from both sides of car.
    Electric fuel pump shut off must be wired through an oil pressure switch. Loss of oil pressure will disconnect power or ground circuit to fuel pump.

    Fuel Cell
    Approved fuel cells mandatory. Completely enclosed in minimum 18 gauge metal box. Fuel cell mounting will be at discretion of Tech. inspector.

    Seats
    Racing seat mandatory. No Fiberglass.

    Glass
    Removal of all glass mandatory. Approved protective screen across windshield opening, optional. Windshield bars protecting driver, MANDATORY.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    I know it has a a20a3 in it and it has the double carbs. Im not sure what exact year it is just that it has 4ws, a20a3 that is carb injected and a manual tranny.
    @89t i would do all that and make it efi but i want to be able to beat them the way it is pure carb management.

  8. #8

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Gut the hood and trunk lid. If you haven't already, replace your brake lines and all runner safety parts, plus new pads and rotors.

    What's wheel bolt pattern you're working with? There's a sub-10 pound Miata stock wheel that might do you well.

    Run a lawn tractor battery. $30 and they weigh nothing. I can start my car on a 20wh backup power supply battery that weighs 2 pounds.

    Tokico Blues and most KYB shocks are both acceptable in the rule book, because they can't be rebuilt, and they are steel bodied.

    Aim for a lower than minimum weight, and add ballast. That allows you to move weight around in the car and can provide a handling advantage since you can't run an adjustable suspension of any kind.

    "Stock appearing nose pieces" leads me to believe that a fiberglass front shell may be legal.

    Add the skid plates allowed, too. Not much to add, but they provide extra protection in case you have an off-track event.

    I'm a rulebook exploiter. Budget classes typically leave a lot open, but you're pretty limited on what you can do, and I can see that's due to running costs.

    Check the rule on tires, too. Some tires do better than others. Nothing says you can't run snows, which might give you a traction advantage for the loose stuff.

    There's probably a bajillion things I'm forgetting, but that should get you started.

    Another question I have is about same make swaps? Can you install another Honda engine and use OEM equipment to make it run?

  9. #9

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    What about hyd. Hand break for the rears? It may help maintain a higher speed in the corners. Next would be camber kits and wheel spacers. The rule states the wheels have to have the same backspace but it doesn't say anything about spacing them out.
    The camber kit will help you adjust for corners.
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    Last edited by 89T; 05-30-2014 at 12:14 PM.
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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    I have gutted to trunk and hood already, i have weight ballasts in the car already, i this there is 2 20lb lead weights in the back seat driver side, and another 2 in the trunk on the pasdenger side. And i believe same make swap meens i can take a engine from a prelude older then 94 and swap it into the car. Also for the tires i think they said snow tires are an over aggressive pattern and are not allowed do to that. Suspension i have adjustable springs and have them set up the perfect way for cornering. And as for engine wise i could do anything to it as long as i dont go above 180lbs hot off the track. One question i have regarding that is what can i do engine wise to make it not go above that? And how can i increase mid range power? What would a dohc engine provide, it seems everyone runs them and are always out in front.
    Last edited by mikal34chez; 05-30-2014 at 12:23 PM.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    I have the hand brake cables but not leaver to activate it. And as for a camber kit, would installing it make the car "hook" more into the corners or helps steer into and out of it better? Sorry im kinda a noob in suspension set up and these honda engines. I know in our monte carlo dirt track car we have the suspension down for it, and in our chevelle we bought, it has a huge negative camber and some other suspension work in it that we have not explored into, and it seems to hook into the corners and just turns for it self. Would applying a negative camber in my prelude do the same?

  12. #12

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Cam, adjustable cam gear , ram air, carbs or a holley carb if allowed. 2.5 inch exhaust. Fuel injected cars have shorter trans gears.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Where can i get a cam from? I cant find anywhere that offer them for the a18. I would love to get rid of these carbs and put a single holley on it but i dont even know where to get a manifold for one at. I need to open up the exhaust more as welded up a 3 sieres flowmaster on it so it would be legal (it had nothing on it) it was beyond loud.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Quote Originally Posted by mikal34chez View Post
    I have the hand brake cables but not leaver to activate it. And as for a camber kit, would installing it make the car "hook" more into the corners or helps steer into and out of it better? Sorry im kinda a noob in suspension set up and these honda engines. I know in our monte carlo dirt track car we have the suspension down for it, and in our chevelle we bought, it has a huge negative camber and some other suspension work in it that we have not explored into, and it seems to hook into the corners and just turns for it self. Would applying a negative camber in my prelude do the same?
    That's exactly why suggested the camber kit. It's all about the contact patch. Negitive on the right and slight positive on the left. You lose most of your speed on the corners. Sorry the pic is sideways but this is ahyd hand break.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    http://www.cncbrakes.com/hsb.asp?grp...412&subseries=

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    You can get allot of good ideas from www.speedwaymotors.com

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Quote Originally Posted by mikal34chez View Post
    I know it has a a20a3 in it and it has the double carbs. Im not sure what exact year it is just that it has 4ws, a20a3 that is carb injected and a manual tranny.
    @89t i would do all that and make it efi but i want to be able to beat them the way it is pure carb management.
    Not to be negative, but you are either wrong about the engine, the year, or the 4WS. A series motors never existed in 3rd gen Prelude (88-91). Yes, the B20a3 was in fact a SOHC dual carb available in 88-90. There's no such thing as an A20xx dual carb unless someone swapped an A18 head onto an A20, which would mean your car is a 2nd gen (83-87) and cannot have 4WS. Some pictures would help. Again, not trying to be rude, but nobody can really offer any specifics until we know exactly what you have.
    Simple test..is your alternator on the intake or exhaust side?
    If it's on the exhaust side, it's a B20a3, and I'd recommend you make a thread in the 3rd gen section at PreludePower.com.

    If it is a B20, you could swap B20a5 DOHC head. Nobody makes manifolds, it would have to be custom.

    Edit: based on your interior pic, this is definitely a 3rd gen, and is surely a B20a3.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    It is an a20a3 block with a a18 head dual carb set up. My car does have the 4ws it has an older engine swap inside it which make it possible to have the a20a3 and the 4ws. Ill post pictures of the car after i get them off my phone.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Quote Originally Posted by knifemind View Post
    Not to be negative, but you are either wrong about the engine, the year, or the 4WS. A series motors never existed in 3rd gen Prelude (88-91). Yes, the B20a3 was in fact a SOHC dual carb available in 88-90. There's no such thing as an A20xx dual carb unless someone swapped an A18 head onto an A20, which would mean your car is a 2nd gen (83-87) and cannot have 4WS. Some pictures would help. Again, not trying to be rude, but nobody can really offer any specifics until we know exactly what you have.
    Simple test..is your alternator on the intake or exhaust side?
    If it's on the exhaust side, it's a B20a3, and I'd recommend you make a thread in the 3rd gen section at PreludePower.com.

    If it is a B20, you could swap B20a5 DOHC head. Nobody makes manifolds, it would have to be custom.

    Edit: based on your interior pic, this is definitely a 3rd gen, and is surely a B20a3.

    Exactly. I want to see pics of the car and/or engine... I will chop my right nut off it isn't a 3rd gen lude with b20a3!
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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    i have the pics off my phone just trying to figure out how to post them, ill have to go out to my grandparents house to take more pictures of it and the motor or i will once i get my axles in and bring it to my house.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Photobucket

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Yeah, I'm not surprised to see it have an A series, but it's not going to have mounts that I would consider legal with that rule set. If you do have a 2nd gen, there are a lot of update and backdate things that are shared between the 2nd generation Prelude and the 3rd generation Accords that will pass tech every time.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    Quote Originally Posted by 89T View Post
    Photobucket

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    Thanks completely forgot about that place!

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car

    I think that puts it back up to 4 or so users, including myself. Most people I know use imgur.

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    Re: honda prelude dirt track car


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