why are old hondas so overlooked, etc

[2oodoor]

Nice, according to theorys presented, that makes for an incredible insight Conozo!

In other markets the lights did not flip up, that's for pedestrian safety if they were hit by a car. The impact had to be a certain distance from the belt. Since we had high waisted jeans at the time the lights could be higher, thats why we have flip up headlights. So blame the styling on the pants.

[Vanilla Sky]

Most of you guys haven't seen how popular the 3geez facebook group has become. Lots of younger people doing engine swaps, turbo builds, good paint jobs, pretty much anything you can think of, to these cars. They're paying quite a bit more money for them, too.

[Dr_Snooz]

This thread is going off in the direction of american vs japanese, but one of my biggest points was the 3gs vs the civics, not so much 3gs against camaros, etc.

Well see the thread title says "old hondas," so I got confused. As for the Civic vs. Accord, you might be expecting too much. The Civic has come in various race car versions since 1983(?). There has been the Si, SiR and Type R Civics with special styling and high performance tuning. The Accord never got a performance tune. It got leather and Bose sound. If you were hard on for tuning, then the Civic is what you bought. The Accord is what your Dad bought after his promotion. It's what your Mom bought for taking your kid sister to school in the mornings. To put it another way, you're basically asking why everyone wants to hot rod Firebirds and not Buick Rivieras. Pretty silly question, right?

[TNTumbler]

I have a 1989 Honda Accord LX Sedan in B49-M Laurel Blue Metallic as a "project car" and "show car" at the same time. This one even carries Antique Tags on her. She does get some rather inquisitive looks and on occasion people will come up and ask what she is. I've had several of these cars, I actually was half way through a restoration on an 1986 LX-i before it was destroyed by an EF1 Tornado. I love my older Hondas especially the 3Geez. There is only 4 generations of Accords that really turn my head faster than if say a Porsche 911 Targa drove by. They are 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th generations. The 4th and 5th generations are alright (the 5th generation is growing on me since I did build these cars from 1994-1996), but the 7th through current generations look like homogenized jelly beans to me. I've restored many of cars over the years, but the Accord always has a soft spot in my heat. The styling is unique and very 80's which goes great with my favorite music which is also from the 80's. No, I don't dress like I'm from the 80's but I have once or twice just for a car show (which it was required as you would be judge as one with your car). Civics are ok, but just don't churn cream into butter for me. CR-X's on the other hand I find extremely sexy but to me they are sports cars, not family haulers. Preludes are slick, sweet, and have sex appeal written all over them for me (I've owned a 1979, 1984, 1988, and 1991) as the are spirited, have room for 4, and have great character lines.

As for American cars, I've restored a few in my time. But there is one over the rest that just catches my attention and almost makes me break my neck like an Accord does. That car is a Pontiac Grand Prix. I've owned 9 of them in my lifetime. Camaros are nice, so is a Mustang, but they are overrated and over blown. Same with the 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air (which was my very first car), and some of these other cars out there. People want these cars because they are popular subjects for these "Reality Shows." Which makes stupid people famous and they over pay for a rust ridden pile of crap. Doesn't make since.

In conclusion, I've shelled out at least 2k on my 1989 Honda Accord since Sept 2013 and somewhere in an upwards of $4 or 5k on my 2002 Grand Prix since April 2007. Do I regret it? No, Its passion and a love in an artful sort of way to me. Do I enjoy these cars, absolutely YES! I wouldn't own anything else (especially a Mustang, LoL). The last time I had the Honda appraised I was shocked to hear the guy say "I'm going to be brutally honest here. This is by far the best example of an "Older Honda" I've seen to date. I'm placing an appraisal value of $8,500 to as much as possibly $9k, if the right person came along, on it." But in truth, you can't put a price on love. Either you love these old cars, or you hate them.

[Accordtheory]

Iupwards of $4 or 5k on my 2002 Grand Prix since April 2007

I just sold my '02 GTP. Out of the 15 or so vehicles I've owned, that was my favorite one. I always liked the style, and the 97-03 has good reliability, is easy to work on, has the same common problems which are easy to diagnose and fix (MAF, wheel bearings (get the TIMKEN) front strut mounts, etc) It also has a very good combination of power and mpg, and goes right through the snow like it isn't even there. I've driven a lot of newer, much more expensive cars, and always used the GTP as a benchmark, and they usually never beat it in the real world. No wonder they are incredibly popular in the midwest, pissing off a lot of people how GM killed pontiac in favor of Buick, yuuuck. Buicks are ugly old people cars that don't handle, have horrible ergonomics, and ugly style, inside and out.

Well, over 100 views and no one bought my a20 manifold, still proving my point, 3gs are overlooked..

[Vanilla Sky]

Right now, the market is flooded with the Mosselman turbo manifolds. I had quite a bit of trouble getting my group buy together back in 2012.

[conozo]

But then look at the popularity of the civics. They don't cost much either. I've always hated civics, I've always hated everything they are and everything they represent. They're boring, mainstream, designed as cheap commuter cars, underpowered, even the B16 in a civic is slow as hell...and yet they were, or still are to a lesser degree, incredibly popular. Why?? Then you look at the old accords and preludes, better build quality, more unique, but they don't catch on. Why? If it's just because of all the vacuum lines, etc, I don't get that either, because it's just as illegal to mod a civic as it is an old prelude in an emissions controlled state or county.

If anyone can explain this to me, please do!

Here you go
https://www.3geez.com/forum/classic-h...et-racers.html

[86AccordLxi]

Cheap speed. A b16/b18/k20 civic is a relatively bolt-in affair. Making a fast 3g takes lot more effort and fab, and the market has proven that very few people are willing to spend the money to make a real proper 3g.

Plus, while the accord light, it's not civic light (nicer car, obv., etc etc).

The aftermarket has never really embraced accords, anyway, and it's such a small fraction of old ones that are still getting modified that there's no real need to start producing new parts. I mean, even koni got out like 5 years ago? And that was just super simple reds.


I'm up to two well-built s13s now (hooray unlimited aftermarket!) but I find myself shopping for a 3g again just to have a relatively cheap/slow dink around car. At least there are still 5spd Lxi floating around for sale on craigslist in the NW.

[Vanilla Sky]

I had to stop into the parts store today for some PB Blaster, and I was asked what I was working on. I said "an old Accord." The counterman said he always loved the ones with the popup headlights. When I went on to say that's what I was working on, he thought it was cool that people did still work on them other than as beaters, and might look into one himself.

Maybe these cars aren't dead afterall.

[Vanilla Sky]

BTW, I think Koni got out closer to 15 years ago, and it took them until 10 years ago for stock to deplete to the levels that they decided it wasn't worth another run. There are, however, 2 new full-bodied coilovers on the market for these cars. They aren't the best (IMO), but it does display that some in the aftermarket are willing to cater to the less popular cars.

[86AccordLxi]

Ksport and what else? Still pure junk.

If I get another one I'll make come sort of civic konis work because fuck that 1-piece jay-dee-emm (with air quotes) bullshit.

[Vanilla Sky]

D2, the same junk, different color. Bilstein does still make the HD shocks for our application, and if you're honestly serious, you're likely going to revalve them anyway.

[86AccordLxi]

Purple instead of orange. Pass.

Bilstein lists a b6 shock for the 3g and it looks like summit/amazon carry the part numbers, so that's probably the route I'd take.

[cygnus x-1]

There is also Hotbits out of Malaysia.

HOT BITS SPORTS SUSPENSIONS - Engineered To Be The Best


C|

[Vanilla Sky]

It's not like other coilovers don't fit. The D2s came about because they already made the parts, they just had to put them together as a kit.

[lostforawhile]

There is also Hotbits out of Malaysia.

HOT BITS SPORTS SUSPENSIONS - Engineered To Be The Best


C|

for some reason these cars are very popular there, some really nice ones facebook page from over there

[86AccordLxi]

Yeah, more mediocre susp.

I'm a snob (no way!) when it comes to dampers, and unless it's koni, bilstein, moton, ast, penske, kw, MCS or maybe about a couple others, I'll pass.

[cygnus x-1]

Yeah, more mediocre susp.

You have experience with them or just haven't heard of them so they are automatically no good? Not that it matters to me. I'm just curious what you know that we don't.


C|

[86AccordLxi]

Well they make mediocre s-chassis and FC parts, too. Really anything at the $1k price point is not going to be spectacular and if it's at the $2k price point it should be a damper everyone knows to be good or they should be able to provide dyno plots for the shock.


I've never ridden in any of the one-piece coils that rode worth anything. Fortune Auto is probably the best of the off-the-shelf stuff. If they start making a 3g setup that'd be an alright solution, though I think mixing and matching EF/DA konis is probably the way to go and still cheaper.

edit: did more research. Hot Bits is supposed to be a cut above and the rally stuff isn't supposed to be bad at all. Seems that no one is really running their street stuff. Like I said, would rather piece together something from other honda models that settle for something that's more expensive and probably has less r&D, and has no support state-side.

I see them on alibaba, too. Take that for what you will.

[Accordtheory]

After doing a little more internet creeping, I have to say I suspect the whole honda game is dying off, way more than I initially suspected. Changing demographics, lackluster product offerings from honda, and a lousy economy thanks the ever increasing merger of government and corporate greed. But I don't think it is going to stay that way though. I think there will be a rebellion against all this "compete with everyone with money" crap, like grunge as a style will come back. Same with the ridiculously high "beltlines" on modern cars, I laughed out loud thinking that was a reaction to how much everyone creeps these days. Cameras everywhere, constant status updates via social media, etc. Maybe it is nice to be able to hide in a car with such poor visibility..

[Vanilla Sky]

Well, car guys are a dying breed in general. I do, however, see more clean old Hondas on the road now than I used to.

I personally emailed D2 back when they first introduced the coilovers for our cars, asking for a shock dyno chart. They asked what a shock dyno was. Just sayin'.

There are still ways to get good dampers under these cars. While you have to work more for it, the project can be done. Hell, we put motorcycle coilovers on a Miata.

[86AccordLxi]

Yeah, d2s have been junk since they started.

I missed on a nice 5spd lxi sedan yesterday but I'm on the hunt. Once I get it, it will get koni'd up shortly.

[Vanilla Sky]

The one I'm getting next Sunday already has Konis, along with a DC front strut bar and an OBX rear. I'm immediately selling the strut tower bracing, and the Sportlines or whatever that are on it now will get flogged off on here. Then I'm going to order 2 circle track 2.5" springs in half the spring rate, but double the length and cut those in half for springs. The coupe parts car I have has Tokico blues on the back, and a set of coilover conversion sleeves, and with a combination of parts and some cheap-ass engineering, my car will end up with a good shock and spring setup.

I also have every stock size sway bar, so I can play with those some. My favorite setup on my coupe with stock springs and struts was no front bar, stock rear bar.

If you hang around people that engineer on a budget, you learn little tricks like that for custom rate springs.

[86AccordLxi]

Can't say I'd ever cut springs in half when new QA1s are $37/ea...

[Vanilla Sky]

$2014 Challenge, $1007 class.