Help!!!!! Please!!

[ADSA20]

Ok so I've got a big issue with my accord.. It's running WAY rich, shaking and not turning over.. Sometimes. It runs like a dream one drive and like a bomb the next. I've had this car in a good shop, the guys checked EVERYTHING. Put it on all the diagnostics, checked fuel pressure, vacuum, map sensor, timing.. The lot. The only bad reading that comes up is the running rich. The only other issue found was a bad 02 sensor and burned out rotor button in the distributor. It's like it's possessed, my last option is replacing the entire distributor or injectors ( which just got cleaned last month ) the mechanic even suggested possible fault in wiring harness. I can't keep throwing money in it, any ideas? Anyone had similar gremlins? I need to get this sorted, it's doing my head in. Any feedback appreciated

[Dr_Snooz]

Are you getting any trouble codes?

[ADSA20]

Was throwing code 1, was a bad 02 sensor. But it's still running way rich, I can't figure it out and neither can my mechanic

[Dr_Snooz]

Did you go through the code 1 troubleshooting procedure outlined in the manual, or just swap out the sensor?

[lostforawhile]

have you thought it might be an ecu issue? they are pretty cheap to get to swap one out, also what about the fuel pressure regulator? if it starts failing it would cause more fuel to be injected because of the higher pressure. regulators have that vaccume diapram in there and they fail on a regular basis

[Dr_Snooz]

also what about the fuel pressure regulator?

Which just so happens to be the first item to check in the troubleshooting procedure for a code 1 in the manual. LOL

[ADSA20]

Did you go through the code 1 troubleshooting procedure outlined in the manual, or just swap out the sensor?

Yes, checked all that. Got frustrated eventually and put it in a shop, everything and I mean EVERYTHING was checked. I've got half a dozen pages of print outs showing it should be running fine.

But... As of today I'm hoping we've found the problem. The intermittent issue with ignition, dirty plugs ( which were recently changed ) and a burned up rotor button have led me to the distributor. I am wondering though if a faulty distributor would cause my car to shake and run rich but at this point I'm willing to follow any lead. I've got a replacement from a wreckers on its way now.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yes, checked all that. Got frustrated eventually and put it in a shop, everything and I mean EVERYTHING was checked. I've got half a dozen pages of print outs showing it should be running fine.

But... As of today I'm hoping we've found the problem. The intermittent issue with ignition, dirty plugs ( which were recently changed ) and a burned up rotor button have led me to the distributor. I am wondering though if a faulty distributor would cause my car to shake and run rich but at this point I'm willing to follow any lead. I've got a replacement from a wreckers on its way now.

What was the cylinder compression and what did the plugs look like?

[Dr_Snooz]

I can't tell from your answer, did you resolve the trouble code or not?

[ADSA20]

Compression was fine according to the report I got and plugs looked quite dark and dirty, as it's running rich.

Yes, resolved trouble code. The first sensor I got turned out to be faulty. It was replaced at the shop and the check light has not come back on

[Dr_Snooz]

It's a tough one. I'd check the resistance on the injector resistor. I'd also inspect the Fast Idle Valve to see if it's malfunctioning. Also check the Idle Air Control Valve (EACV in the manual). I'm assuming this is an injected car, of course. If all the plugs are fouled, then that would tend to indicate that you don't have a bad injector causing the problems. You'll have to think outside the box and learn to test parts before replacing them to keep from going broke. Does the Check Engine light come on for two seconds when you first turn the car on?

[ADSA20]

The air idle control valve was the first thing I blamed. I took it out, cleaned it and put it back in for minimal improvement, but it idles on start up where it should. Just once it's warm at the lights etc it plays up. Yes, through process of elimination I'm at the distributor. We have noted a slight pinging which we've been unable to get rid of. This with the starting issues and fouled plugs I'm almost sure my distributor is shot. I've picked up a pretty decent one from a wreckers so fingers crossed

Yes, the check light comes on for two seconds at start up.

[Dr_Snooz]

If you didn't check the electronics on the EACV, you should. There's a troubleshooting procedure in the manual on p. 12-43. The procedure assumes that you're getting a trouble code, but it won't hurt to test it anyway. There's also a test for the Fast Idle Valve in the manual that's worth doing.

Are you changing the distributor because of a weak spark/missed timing or for some other reason? Have you checked timing, spark and the ICM? Also check the coil. There's a test in the manual. You really want to be in the habit of testing potentially bad parts as thoroughly as possible before spending money to replace them. It will save you a lot of frustration and expense.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but a lot of guys just keep throwing parts at a problem until they run out of money and patience.

Is this problem only at idle? Does your tach needle ever bounce around erratically?

[ADSA20]

If you didn't check the electronics on the EACV, you should. There's a troubleshooting procedure in the manual on p. 12-43. The procedure assumes that you're getting a trouble code, but it won't hurt to test it anyway. There's also a test for the Fast Idle Valve in the manual that's worth doing.

Are you changing the distributor because of a weak spark/missed timing or for some other reason? Have you checked timing, spark and the ICM? Also check the coil. There's a test in the manual. You really want to be in the habit of testing potentially bad parts as thoroughly as possible before spending money to replace them. It will save you a lot of frustration and expense.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but a lot of guys just keep throwing parts at a problem until they run out of money and patience.

Is this problem only at idle? Does your tach needle ever bounce around erratically?

Ok, to clarify.

It idles fine when I turn it over, no dramas when it's in park or neutral. The shaking occurs in gear and the rpms drop, but not all of the time. Sometimes it's fine yet sometimes it shakes and almost stalls. It also sometimes refuses to turn over. Dirty/fouled plugs, burnt rotor button and pinging have been noted. Also it runs rich when it plays up, the funny thing is that while it was sitting in the shop one reading would come back rich, switch it off and go again and it's fine... Why?? We just can't figure it out, neither can my mechanic. He's tested fuel pressure, vacuum, voltages, it all comes back fine. He agreed with my opinion that the distributor is a likely suspect, as adjusting the timing did not get rid of the pinging ( we had it where the manual stated ) it was a little advanced when we first adjusted it. No, pedantic is fine. I've taken every logical step in solving the issue that I can think of hence my asking here where I figured others may have experienced similar issues which may give me clues. I appreciate all feedback in this matter. I have a replacement distributor and time tomorrow, I'm hoping for a positive outcome.

[Dr_Snooz]

Does the car sit a lot?

[ADSA20]

Does the car sit a lot?

No, driven most days. City and highway driving.

Ok so my changed the distributor and a small improvement. The car starts easier and seems to idle a bit better, sadly though it still runs rich and pings under load. After a couple of hours fiddling around adjusting timing and rechecking everything we still have no answer, the mechanic who was helping me out is very puzzled by it. Again, all the diagnostics show it should be running fine. The only answer he can now offer is perhaps a bad solenoid or wiring somewhere, but as he said "I'm just guessing now, we've run out things to test for without spending some money" It's not from lack of been thorough let me assure you!

[Dr_Snooz]

You might use a mechanic's stethoscope to listen to the injectors. Have you tested the coil and ICM?

[firefighterwhite89]

The ICM can start causing intermittent issues under load and at times at idle after it warms up when it's on it's way out the door. IIRC, the coil should be around 11,000 OHMs of resistance. Anything much less is a sign it's going bad. It can also start to fail after it warms up. I had a similar issue with running rich/pinging. Turned out to be the FPR. The vacuum diaphragm was intermittently failing. Sometimes it would have too much pull it felt ike, sometimes it was perfect and rarely it felt like it was starving for fuel. Bought a glowshift FP gauge and realized at times when i'd crank it, i'd have 80PSI at the rail at idle(Which is pretty ridiculous), and other times I would have 40PSI at the rail, which is still high. You could have put a bucket at my tailpipe and saved fuel sometimes. lol. It was intermittent though. Bought a BLOX FPR, installed it and problem solved...until Injectors started failing one after another(I'm assuming from running 80+PSI randomly. Our stock FP is 32PSI @Idle and 38PSI @WOT IIRC. Could be slightly off some digits though.

If you're wondering if you're injectors aren't firing electrical wise, use a noid light. They plug directly into the harness and light every time it gets a signal and you can see each duty cycle from idle to however high you rev. If you're wondering if the injectors themselves are failing, either a stethoscope mentioned previously would work or just replacing the injectors themselves. Honda sells a whole kit of 4(I think with all orings/bushings) for around $110. You can also scoop some airtex injectors off ebay for usually around $22-30/each depending on how lucky you are. I went with airtex. When i got them, they had a lifetime warranty as they came from a parts store in cali...a lifetime warranty on injectors is nearly unheard of.

[gfrg88]

Yes, checked all that. Got frustrated eventually and put it in a shop, everything and I mean EVERYTHING was checked. I've got half a dozen pages of print outs showing it should be running fine.

But... As of today I'm hoping we've found the problem. The intermittent issue with ignition, dirty plugs ( which were recently changed ) and a burned up rotor button have led me to the distributor. I am wondering though if a faulty distributor would cause my car to shake and run rich but at this point I'm willing to follow any lead. I've got a replacement from a wreckers on its way now.

You try another yet? I had this happen to me. It would sputter and almost not run at all. missfiring horrible, runs rich, timing is way off due to faulty dizzy.

[ADSA20]

Hey guys, first of all thank you to everyone for the ideas and advice. I've been flat out at work and looking after sick patents but YES! Through a lot of persistence and the help of an old school mechanic friend we solved the issue. The distributor was bad, replaced that but the problem persisted and we ended up finding that the timing was a tooth out. How? I don't know, not long ago had it done and had checked it before! so possibly jumped? I'm not sure. But that stopped it running rich, shuttering and pinging. Totally different car, ran like a dream.

Sadly it's now started stalling under braking, or dropping rpm under brakes then stalling when I go to take off ( I swear to god it's trying to test my resolve ) So I replaced the fuel filter which was dirty, replaced the plugs ( white ends, yeah clue.. Too much air?) checked the vacuum lines, found no leaks, pretty positive anyway since its not long been tested in the workshop. The little valve wasn't long replaced either so I'm thinking a bad brake booster? but pumping the pedal and it seems ok. Could it still be faulty? Can they play up intermittently when they go? Only other clue I have to go on is I'm losing about 800ml of coolant over 3-4 weeks. It has heated up on me twice now until I top it back up. I'm wondering if this could be a related issue.

NOT giving up on this car, spent too much time on it and feel I'm sooo close to having it purring like a kitten.