SE-I rear brake upgrade

[running strong]

Hello everyone,
I was thinking of doing the swap to disc brakes on my little DX due to the brakes feeling soggy, and i need new brakes anyways. I have a few questions before I start finding parts.
1. What parts should i get from the junkyard? Obviously i will need to get the hubs and parking brake cables, but what about rotors and calipers? I'm worried that calipers could be seized.
2. How long does the swap take, and what is the difficulty level? I just want to make sure I'm not going to be overwhelmed. The how-to sounds pretty straight forward, but that doesn't always translate to easy.
3. What about front brakes, are the DX and SE-I the same?
4. Will my 13 inch tires fit the new system? I don't know if the SE-I had bigger rims.

Any help you guys are willing to give will be greatly appreciated.

[derolph]

I can only comment on the wheel size. I have an 88 LX-i and the LX-i's have 14 inch wheels. So, I'm quite sure the SE-i's were also made with 14 inch wheels.

[gp02a0083]

the SE-i rims are 14"

The front brakes:
you will need the knuckles from a 88-89 LX-i / SE-i due to the mounting location differences for the caliper. Not sure if this applies to all but even my 87 lxi had the smaller front brakes. When swapping the front brakes the brake lines can be reused however they will be very tight / short and require a stand off to be made to mount the hydraulic line to the knuckle.

Master cylinder:
there has been debate that this is not required for the swap. IMO it couldn't hurt to swap out the 7/8" master cyl for the 15/16" one. However on my 87 lxi i needed the larger master cyl even when i upgraded my front brakes

Rear setup:
Many members state that you need the whole trailing arm assembly with it, not sure exactly. I did my swap with only the rear knuckles and re-used my existing lxi hatchback trailing arms. Pretty much everything from the upper control arm down to the lower's in the rear. Knuckle, caliper, caliper bracket, dust shields ect. Also remember the e-brake cables and the pins used to connect them to the e-brake lever on the caliper.

Overall the swap is easy and can take a weekend to do. Remember to use new ny-lock nuts or loc-tight on the trailing arm to knuckle bolts.

look around in my thread

https://www.3geez.com/forum/project-c...ml#post1156398

[running strong]

So i will have to get 14" rims

[running strong]

Do i have to replace the front calipers?
Do i have to replace the upper and lower control arms to support the bigger knuckles?
Also i was looking at brake lines at the auto store, what do they mean by inner-outer and outer-inner?
Is there a place to buy the whole set of lines, i just want to make sure the 12 bucks i saw was for the whole line from master cylinder to the caliper.

[carotman]

If you have an Accord DX, you will get more stopping power from upgrading the front brakes with the 88-89 EFI models. This will require new discs/calipers/knuckle.

If you only want to swap the rear discs, you could leave the front alone.

[running strong]

If you have an Accord DX, you will get more stopping power from upgrading the front brakes with the 88-89 EFI models. This will require new discs/calipers/knuckle.

If you only want to swap the rear discs, you could leave the front alone.

Thanks for all the info guys. I just want to make sure once the car is dismantled, i can do the swap one go.

Most people are saying that i have to change the front brakes to either SE-I or LX-I . if i can leave them how they are, then it should spare me having to buy wheels. (i read on another post that the 13" wheels will fit the rear disk brakes but not the front. Can somebody verify this?)
I saw another post that said i don't need the trailing arm or the parking brake cables either. I don't really need extra stopping power, but there are hills and i don't want to compromise my ability to stop. Will it mess up the balance too bad?

[carotman]

You will need the parking brake cables for sure. I doubt it will mess the balance. The rear discs will just fade less with heat compared to the drums.

In other countries, they used the rear disc setup with the smaller front discs that you have (they had dual piston calipers though).

[markmdz89hatch]

ok, here goes...

Carrot and gp already said most of it, but...

86-87 All models used the smaller front brakes and rear drums, and can all fit 13" wheels without issue.
88-89 is where it gets interesting...
88-89 DX & LX - Same smaller front rotors/calipers as the 86-87. Rears (all drums) are identical to 86-87 as well.
88-89 LX-i - Larger front rotors/calipers. MINIMUM 14" wheels are required to clear these brakes. (Some very slight exceptions will allow 13", but definitely not stock). The front knuckles in the 88-89 LX-i are different than the 86-87 All and 88-89 DX, with a slightly different hub and different mounting points for the calipers. Rears are the same drums as 86-87 All and 88-89 DX/LX. The master cylinder uses a larger bore than the 86-87 All and 88-89 DX/LX.
89 SE-i - Same front brakes (and knuckles) as 88-89 LX-i. This is the only model (US spec of course) that came with rear disc brakes, which use a different knuckle than any other model. The SE-i uses the same master cylinder as the 88-89 LX-i. The SE-i also (IIRC) used a different proportioning valve. The SE-i e-brake cables are specific to the SE-i, as the ends are different to work with the calipers.


So, I recommend doing the following:

Find an SE-i parts car at a junkyard.
Pull the loaded rear knuckles (i.e. including hubs, rotors, calipers, brake lines [if possible])
pull the e-brake cables, or buy new ones

Front brakes can be sourced from the same SE-i, or from any 88-89 LX-i.
You'll need:
Proportioning valve (arguably)
Loaded front knuckles (including calipers, rotors, hubs, brake lines)
At this point, I'd suggest buying new lower ball joints and having the new ones pressed into the donor knuckles (when these lower ball joints go [and they do go], it's not a pretty sight. At the age of these cars, it's well worth the insurance of replacing these ball joints.)
Get a new Master Cylinder from rockauto or another parts resource.


I know BF Goodrich use to offer braided stainless lines for these cars, but I've been out of the game for a while so I don't know if they still offer em. Either way, I'd suggest buying a good set of braided lines. I only recommended pulling the rotors and lines from the donor to have them to mock up. Sometimes you get lucky and the rotors are good, in which case, just use 'em and expect to do a brake job at some point in the future.

The larger front calipers are a much better design (imo) than the smaller DX/LX ones, so there's a decent chance you'll get a set that'll work well enough for now. If not, just use them as cores and buy new ones at a parts store. The rear calipers (at least a couple years ago) were not easy to get as rebuilds, but look around and I'm sure you'll find them. I believe they're the same caliper as the 1st Gen Integra, but have a different mounting arm. A trip to a local parts store with a good guy behind the counter may help you compare the parts if they only have the Integra rears.

[running strong]

ok, here goes...

Carrot and gp already said most of it, but...

86-87 All models used the smaller front brakes and rear drums, and can all fit 13" wheels without issue.
88-89 is where it gets interesting...
88-89 DX & LX - Same smaller front rotors/calipers as the 86-87. Rears (all drums) are identical to 86-87 as well.
88-89 LX-i - Larger front rotors/calipers. MINIMUM 14" wheels are required to clear these brakes. (Some very slight exceptions will allow 13", but definitely not stock). The front knuckles in the 88-89 LX-i are different than the 86-87 All and 88-89 DX, with a slightly different hub and different mounting points for the calipers. Rears are the same drums as 86-87 All and 88-89 DX/LX. The master cylinder uses a larger bore than the 86-87 All and 88-89 DX/LX.
89 SE-i - Same front brakes (and knuckles) as 88-89 LX-i. This is the only model (US spec of course) that came with rear disc brakes, which use a different knuckle than any other model. The SE-i uses the same master cylinder as the 88-89 LX-i. The SE-i also (IIRC) used a different proportioning valve. The SE-i e-brake cables are specific to the SE-i, as the ends are different to work with the calipers.


So, I recommend doing the following:

Find an SE-i parts car at a junkyard.
Pull the loaded rear knuckles (i.e. including hubs, rotors, calipers, brake lines [if possible])
pull the e-brake cables, or buy new ones

Front brakes can be sourced from the same SE-i, or from any 88-89 LX-i.
You'll need:
Proportioning valve (arguably)
Loaded front knuckles (including calipers, rotors, hubs, brake lines)
At this point, I'd suggest buying new lower ball joints and having the new ones pressed into the donor knuckles (when these lower ball joints go [and they do go], it's not a pretty sight. At the age of these cars, it's well worth the insurance of replacing these ball joints.)
Get a new Master Cylinder from rockauto or another parts resource.


I know BF Goodrich use to offer braided stainless lines for these cars, but I've been out of the game for a while so I don't know if they still offer em. Either way, I'd suggest buying a good set of braided lines. I only recommended pulling the rotors and lines from the donor to have them to mock up. Sometimes you get lucky and the rotors are good, in which case, just use 'em and expect to do a brake job at some point in the future.

The larger front calipers are a much better design (imo) than the smaller DX/LX ones, so there's a decent chance you'll get a set that'll work well enough for now. If not, just use them as cores and buy new ones at a parts store. The rear calipers (at least a couple years ago) were not easy to get as rebuilds, but look around and I'm sure you'll find them. I believe they're the same caliper as the 1st Gen Integra, but have a different mounting arm. A trip to a local parts store with a good guy behind the counter may help you compare the parts if they only have the Integra rears.

I was thinking something like, cut the brake lines at the front rubber part and doing like you said and just taking the hubs. Are the brake lines run through the the models the same. I could just follow the path of the lines in my car to the new knuckles.

There aren't any SE-I's at the junkyards here, there are tons of lxi's though.

Am i correct in thinking that the rest of the suspension is the same (control arms, and tie rods)

I am no longer worried about the wheels. I can get them at the yard as long as they don't have to match. I'll probably slap some Honda hubs if there aren't any for the accords.

[markmdz89hatch]

I was thinking something like, cut the brake lines at the front rubber part and doing like you said and just taking the hubs. Are the brake lines run through the the models the same. I could just follow the path of the lines in my car to the new knuckles.

huh? You don't need to replace the entire line from the master to the caliper, just the rubber line from the fitting in the wheel well to the caliper. I can't remember if the DX/LX and efi models have slightly different lines.

There aren't any SE-I's at the junkyards here, there are tons of lxi's though.

consider yourself lucky. With all the salt and 'magic salt' [i.e. Like magic, watch your fender disintegrate] they load up the roads with, nearly all the 3G's have gone to the junkyard, then the crusher/shredder long ago. I might see a 3G 5-6 times a year now. 10 years ago I couldn't go a day without seeing one.

Am i correct in thinking that the rest of the suspension is the same (control arms, and tie rods)

For the most part, yes. However, I'm nearly positive the forks for the front shocks are beefier on the 88-89 efi models.

I am no longer worried about the wheels. I can get them at the yard as long as they don't have to match. I'll probably slap some Honda hubs if there aren't any for the accords.

I'm lost. What don't have to match? At the min, you have to have a matched pair of front wheels/tires (tires should be the same, but at min should be the same size), and a matched pair in the rear. All 4 don't have to match. By Honda hubs, I assume you mean hubcaps?

If they're available and cheap (most are at a j/y), find a set of old Ford Escort wheels or BMW "bottle caps", or for that matter, any car with aluminum wheels with 4x100 lug pattern. (Civic, Integra, etc)

[gp02a0083]

the front knuckle lines are routed the same, the smaller brake system the hoses are a little shorter.

the rear body to trailing arm line is routed the same way, however this goes to a intermediate hard line that connects the end flex line to the caliper itself

not sure if BF still makes the lines, i went and spoke with Paul from techna-fit about the SE-1 brake lines, was about $170 with my choice of color for the SS lines and I had the rear knuckle to caliper line extended about an 1 inch to keep the line from pinching and a tight radius. Best part: lifetime warrenty and very good hardware supplied.

as mark mentioned most of the conversion parts can be salvaged from an 88-89 lxi. I dont recall the strut fork being different when i did my swap on my 87 lxi. but the front knuckles, calipers, and master cyl can be found on the lxi's. the 40/40 prop valve , rear knuckles / calipers / e brake cables and additional flex line are only on the SEi IIRC

[running strong]

Thank you again gp and carot.

I was browsing through the u pull and pay website, it said that the brake rotors from the 88-91 preludes are interchangeable with the 86-89 accords. How true is that?

Are they similar to the se-i's?

I'm having some difficulties finding any.

[MessyHonda]

Wow looks like the OG members already covered this Topic from top to bottom. In my Experience you can just upgrade the rear disk. Only 89 SE-i set up will work. no prelude parts bolt on. you can still run 13 inch rims in the rear they only upgraded to 14 inch because the 88-89 fuel injected models went with a 10.3 inch rotor and larger caliper. If you really want to upgrade to a bigger rotor you should look up LegendMaster upgrade thread.

[derolph]

you can still run 13 inch rims in the rear ...

So, the end of tire rotation. That would suck, in my opinion.

[MessyHonda]

Thats why I run 15 inch rims because I have a bigger rotor in the front. I would only use 13 in the rear if I had no choice