84 accord hatch b16?

[nissanjon]

hello, i'm glad i found this forum, hopefully you can help answer some questions. i currently drive a 2000 Si and have recently helped my buddy with a pretty crazy hybrid swap in his civic.

now he has an old b16 sitting in my garage that pretty much just needs new rings and bearings...being a car nut, and going back to my roots (my first car was an 84 accord 4dr) i wonder if i can drop this b16 into an 84 accord hatchback.

or would i be better off starting out with an 86 accord hatch?

what kind of options do i have as far as mounting the motor/tranny, finding axles that will fit, shift linkage, and ecu/wiring harness? i found an 84 accord hatch for dirt cheap so i want to know if this swap is possible with the same ease as doing this swap with an 86 model.

also how much does an accord hatch weigh? (both 84 and 86)

any info is greatly appreciated, feel free to reply or email [email protected] if you have any helpful tips. thanks!

[88turboaccord]

Well if you do an 86-89 accord, they make motor mounts so you can drop that motor right in. Plus a few guys on this board have already done the swap so if you run into any problems, there is help here for you..

[Sean]

you could bolt a a20a into that 84 with some work. i hope andy pops in he knows about 2nd gen accord.

[nissanjon]

thanks guys, much appreciated. any other thoughts or info? thanks!

[88LXi68]

Maybe I am wrong, but if you can fit an A20 into the 2nd gen accord couldnt you use the Place Racing Mounts to put a B-Series in? Maybe I am missing something though??

Another thing, unless you are willing to convert that 84 Hatch into Fuel Injection then I think the Vtec engine would not be good. From what I have read Vtec and Carbs dont mix. You could use the b18a1 with some dual webbers. I think that would work real well.

[Sean]

nope the a20a bolts directly to the a18 mounts. but the 3g mounts wont fit in a 2g application.

[88LXi68]

Yea I wasnt sure how that worked. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[PhydeauX]

The easy choices for a 2g are the a20a and the b20a. The a20a will bolt in with just some bracket swaping and a little mix match of the accessories. The b20a will go in simarly, though I have no expierence with that so I can't say its going to be 100%. I'd get one from with the brackets from a 2g prelude, the engine bay is the same as the 2g accord and that one will definitely fit. That is the jdm/euro 3g accord/ 2g prelude b20a, not the 3rd gen prelude. You can find plenty of info on that in some of the other threads.

The b16a is going to be an all custom job. There is a chance that the place raceing gen3 mounts could be modified to work. The engine compartments are similar, diference being the front mount is a diferent style and the frame rails are diferent. I don't know what you're going to have to do with the axles. I know the 3rd gen axles don't work with the b16 trans. I don't know whats the cause of that though. The 2nd gen axles have smaller splines then the 3rd gen, but other wise are the same. Place racing makes 3rd gen axles, but 2nd gen ones will problaby have to be custom.

For the efi conversion, if you're lucky enough to find an 85 sei then you can get what you need to convert to efi, otherwise its going to be more custom work. The 2nd gen already uses an external pump which makes things alot simpler, but it doesn't have a return line so there is going to be some fabrication involved.

I don't think a b16 has ever been done before in a 2nd gen, you're getting into uncharted waters. But I wouldn't let that stop you. The 3rd gen swap is easier, you can buy the harness, mounts, axles, shiftlinkages, accessory brackets, everything you'll need from place racing for a premium and you can have a pretty strait forward swap, but where is the fun in that. The 2g accord is ligher, but it lacks the suspension refinement of the 3g. Thats not saying the 2g accords suspension sucks, its 4 wheel indpended with mac phearsons on all 4 corners. I have coil overs on an other wise stock suspension on mine and it works quite well.

If I were doing the swap I'd go for the second gen. The torqueless b16 will like the lighter chassis. I'm a fan of the 2nd gen accord so I might be a little biased.

If you do stick with the 2nd gen ask me about some suspension and brake upgrades.

If you're wondering about the possibilites of the 2nd gen here's the story on mine.

The motor is an a20a3 lifted from an 88 accod LX-i. The cam has been reground by colt, 272° .402" on the intake, 292° .413" on the exhaust. Its fueled by a pair of weber 45DCOE carburators on a custom manifold. Power goes to the ground via a hybrid gen2 prelude/gen3 integra transmission with a phantom grip limited slip. Fuel is supplied by a holly red pump though a custom fuel system. Stopping comes from stock breaks in the front and 86 prelude si disks in the back. It has some modified civic coil overs on all four corners 450lb up front and 350lb in the back. Suprisingly its not that bouncy even though it still has the stock shocks. Ride hight remains stock, you can't lower a gen2 with out camber problems. Eventually I'll get aroung to droping some koni insers in them and I have a set of whiteline swaybars on the way for it.

andy

[nissanjon]

wow thanks guys, this forum is great, quick replies and helpful info.

looks like i'll have to do a little deeper research and familiarize myself with the older honda chassis/motors.

and you guys brought up another thing i forgot to consider...fuel delivery...i certainly forgot about that - now the tough question is go for efi with variable valve timing, or go dual carb....

damn...did the 85 se-i only come as a 4door, or did they have a hatch version too? i really want a 2g hatch for the sleeper effect...but it looks like a 4g civic hatch would be an easier swap. too bad everyone and their mama already has one. i do want to go for something different. i'll just keep researching. please dont stop the helpful info from coming, it's all new to me.

thanks!

[88LXi68]

i would not rule out the 86 Accord Hatch LX-i can be found for peanuts with a blown engine and then go to town on that.

[nissanjon]

wow phydeaux that sounds like a mean little hatch. is it a dependable daily driver?

and to 88lxi68 that's a pretty good point about finding an 86 in need of a motor anyway....would make things simpler, would still be a pretty rare sleeper, and the interior is pretty much a newer cleaner version of the 84....

does anyone know what the weight differences are between the 84 and 86 hatches?

[Sean]

84 is 250lbs lighter to start with.

[PhydeauX]

It was my daily driver for about 6 months. Dependability was ok. The cam and carbs don't make it a fan of being cold. Its not really suited for daily driving and it gets terrible gas milage so I just drive it for fun now, once the suspension is done and I chace out this ignition gremlin thats turned up its going to be run in scca solo2 street mod.

andy

[nissanjon]

so after some digging i found that an 84 accord 4dr sedan weighs 2300 lbs...how much less does the hatch weigh?

that's pretty encouraging considering my b16 pushes a 2600+ lb civic.

[PhydeauX]

Its shorter then the sedan so It's most likey lighter. I don't have the numbers off hand.

andy

[nissanjon]

i got a reply from placeracing.com, they only make mounts for 86-89 b-series swaps.

where can i find info on the motors/chassis found in 2 and 3 generation accords?

thanks

[PhydeauX]

The only info you're going to find is whats in the manuals and what you can pick out of my brain. There is next to nothing on the internet and the only knowledge I have is from me tinkering with the thing. I thought I had already said that there were not mounts available. But anyway the over all layout of the two engine bays is similar. The 3rd gen's bay is longer and a little bit wider then the 2nd gens, but most things are in the same place. The bottom tranny bumper, rear mount and the torque arm are the same. The drivers side mount is completely diferent, but in the same place. The front mount is a revised liquid filled version. Its in the same spot but how it bolts to the crossmember is diferent. It maybe possible to adapt the place racing mounts to work. The most work would be to the drivers side mount and at the very least will require some welding. That is if you want to to toying around with a set of $600 mounts (They're something expensice like that). The other option is to fabricate your own set of mounts. I've never done it and assume its a pain in the ass. A competient fabrication shop should be able to take care of the axles and shift linkages. I don't think the modified shift linkage that placeracing sells will work in a gen2. From what I understand you have to lengthen it and change the bend slightly to get the shifter to sit right, don't quote me I haven't done it myself. You can use their power steering adapter plate to keep you're power steering though, it mounts the same as the gen3's.

If I were you I would get a 2nd gen and grab some 3rd gen mounts from a junkyard. See if you can fit them to the second gen. The 2nd gen and 3rd gen motors are dimensonaly the same and the mounts atach to the block in the same places. Do one at a time to make sure the engine is still sitting in the right place. Once you've done that you should be able to use the place racing mounts for the 3rd gen. That would probalby be the easiest since you would only have to modify 2 mounts one at a time.

andy

[nissanjon]

thanks a lot andy. i'm going to go take a look at an 84 hatch tomorrow, and maybe hit up some honda junkyards this weekend. i'll try to pick up any available service manuals i can find. i appreciate your helpful replies. i'll be back for more help in the near future.

[Tim Yoak]

Go with the 86 hatch, this was the last generation (86-89) and in my opinion the best looking hatch and most refined. In 86 they gave it a brand new suspension and engine, and redesigned the whole car. they look much better then 85s. The 86 accords also won a bunch of awards. If they had put that b series (160 horsepower) in the car for the US, it would have been a clasic sports car. I've owned a first generation,a second generation, and a third generation. also an s-600.

[Tim Yoak]

Go with the 86 hatch, this was the last generation (86-89) and in my opinion the best looking hatch and most refined. In 86 they gave it a brand new suspension and engine, and redesigned the whole car. they look much better then 85s. The 86 accords also won a bunch of awards. If they had put that b series (160 horsepower) in the car for the US, it would have been a clasic sports car. I've owned a first generation,a second generation, and a third generation. also an s-600.