Mystery morning no start

[wheelhorse2347]

Hello All

I have a 1988 Honda Accord LXI with 154k miles. Daily Driver I bought this car last year, this time.

I've been having an issue that's been driving me insane, and making me late to work. In the mornings it's been getting down to about 45 degrees the past few days. I leave at 530 am, and when I go to start the car, it just turns over with not so much as a sputter or a hint of starting. This car has a new distributor, and a new ignition coil, new wires, new plugs. It appears there is NO spark when this happens, but I need to get my tester on it to make sure, and you can hear the fuel pump turn on and smell the gas. I've already resoldered the fuel pump relay under the dash and I checked it to make sure everything was kosher.

I've been having to ride the motorcycle in (COLD LONG RIDE) to make it to work. When I get home around 330, and go to start it, it starts right up and runs great like nothing was wrong with it.

I can read electrical drawings, and use a multimeter, so I'll be trying to find some today to try to troubleshoot, but as you know, it's hard to troubleshoot a problem after it's fixed itself. I suspect it has something to do with some important bit loosing connection due to contraction or something like that. Can the ICM be bad? I kept the original one from my old distributor.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Shane86]

Hello All

I have a 1988 Honda Accord LXI with 154k miles. Daily Driver I bought this car last year, this time.

I've been having an issue that's been driving me insane, and making me late to work. In the mornings it's been getting down to about 45 degrees the past few days. I leave at 530 am, and when I go to start the car, it just turns over with not so much as a sputter or a hint of starting. This car has a new distributor, and a new ignition coil, new wires, new plugs. It appears there is NO spark when this happens, but I need to get my tester on it to make sure, and you can hear the fuel pump turn on and smell the gas. I've already resoldered the fuel pump relay under the dash and I checked it to make sure everything was kosher.

I've been having to ride the motorcycle in (COLD LONG RIDE) to make it to work. When I get home around 330, and go to start it, it starts right up and runs great like nothing was wrong with it.

I can read electrical drawings, and use a multimeter, so I'll be trying to find some today to try to troubleshoot, but as you know, it's hard to troubleshoot a problem after it's fixed itself. I suspect it has something to do with some important bit loosing connection due to contraction or something like that. Can the ICM be bad? I kept the original one from my old distributor.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Put your original distributor on the car and enjoy it

[wheelhorse2347]

Put your original distributor on the car and enjoy it

The original distributor blew up into a confetti of metal shavings (the bearing went kaput). The only thing I was able to save was the vacuum diaphram, the ICM, and what I assume is a hall sensor of some kind.

[Shane86]

The original distributor blew up into a confetti of metal shavings (the bearing went kaput). The only thing I was able to save was the vacuum diaphram, the ICM, and what I assume is a hall sensor of some kind.

If you got one of those remanufactured distributors off eBay that cost about $90 I would look into getting another distributor. Or find another known working distributor

[wheelhorse2347]

If you got one of those remanufactured distributors off eBay that cost about $90 I would look into getting another distributor. Or find another known working distributor

The new distributor is from Autozone (bleh), but are they really that bad? I can't imagine the electronics would be affected that greatly from a +/- 10 degree difference. I know when it IS running, it runs a thousand times better than the stock one with the blown out bearing, so there is at least that.

[Shane86]

The new distributor is from Autozone (bleh), but are they really that bad? I can't imagine the electronics would be affected that greatly from a +/- 10 degree difference. I know when it IS running, it runs a thousand times better than the stock one with the blown out bearing, so there is at least that.

if you got a warranty on that new distributor swap it out with another one

[wheelhorse2347]

if you got a warranty on that new distributor swap it out with another one

I do have a warranty on the distributor.Just to clarify, the +/- 10 degree in my previous statement was referring to temperature, not to timing.

[wheelhorse2347]

You'd think whatever issue is happening, would keep happening regardless of what time of day...I'll be checking some grounds when I get home maybe.

[Shane86]

You'd think whatever issue is happening, would keep happening regardless of what time of day...I'll be checking some grounds when I get home maybe.

I've had the same exact problem if you don't have any check engine codes going off change the distributor

[wheelhorse2347]

Yep, no codes whatsoever. Autozone appears to be out of them locally...

[Dr_Snooz]

Well, if you got the Duralast NEW distributor, then it's probably a rebranded Richporter, which is good. If you got the Cardone REMAN distributor, take it back and see if you can get a Richporter.

In the manual (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vzcxevmh7x...anual.pdf?dl=0), there are a number of good tests in ch. 24. You can test the coil, ICM (p. 24-9), distributor timing, wires and plugs. If it's a no-spark condition, then you're bound to turn something up there.

Good luck.

[Oldblueaccord]

I would be looking at he main relay for a no start condition.

You can check for spark thru the plug wire with one of those AC stick checkers (death sticks) it picks up the pulses or a timing light.

[wheelhorse2347]

Welp, started up yesterday morning, but this morning it was colder and it didn't start again.

I have one of those spark testers. When it doesn't start, it shows no spark.

If I remove the wires from the distributor and the coil, and I ground out the primary, I can get the coil to spark no problem. There is power going to the hot side too.

My distributor is one of the NEW ones, not the reman. I need to call today, but i believe I have a warranty exchange sitting up there right now. I'll swap it out, see if the problem persists, and if it does start checking EVERYTHING ELSE. It acts like whatever sensor is in the base of the distributor isn't sending a signal to the coil to close the circuit and fire. In the mean time, I guess I'll be getting new tires for the van, because it's WAY to cold to be riding the motorcycle to work in the AM, and I'm tired of being late.

[wheelhorse2347]

I finally downloaded the wiring diagram, and took a look. Its way simpler than I figured it would be, and since the hot from the ignition switch stays hot when it is a no start, It's either the distributor, igniter unit, or the radio condensor, though this diagram in the manual I think is a bit simplified. It could also be a ground on the black wire from the Igniter.

[Oldblueaccord]

I finally downloaded the wiring diagram, and took a look. Its way simpler than I figured it would be, and since the hot from the ignition switch stays hot when it is a no start, It's either the distributor, igniter unit, or the radio condensor, though this diagram in the manual I think is a bit simplified. It could also be a ground on the black wire from the Igniter.

Jump the spark side of the main relay out next time it happens. There is a diagram in your DL book and online and here someplace in the EFI section

Solder only fixes the connection not the relay internal coil,contacts etc. its 2 relays in one one for the fuel pump and one to see if you have spark,pulse from the coil to stay latched in.

[DanJDT]

I would say replace the main relay if its not that. put the good one if you glove box and save it till you need it.

An idea i just had was if you dont have time to check on it when its cold. Try throwing the part in question in the freezer for a few hours and see if you can duplicate the results?

[wheelhorse2347]

Jump the spark side of the main relay out next time it happens. There is a diagram in your DL book and online and here someplace in the EFI section

Solder only fixes the connection not the relay internal coil,contacts etc. its 2 relays in one one for the fuel pump and one to see if you have spark,pulse from the coil to stay latched in.

Good point, and very interesting. I will try this!

After work today, I'm going to pick up a new distributor anyway (because warranty, and why not). I'll jumper the relay and try. for sure. I double checked the coil, and it definitely has power across the primary, and the coil sparks when the negative is briefly grounded out. SO the main relay basically tells the fuel pump to turn on when it receives pulses from the distributor? I know when I turn the key to ON I can hear the pump turn on briefly.

[Oldblueaccord]

Good point, and very interesting. I will try this!

After work today, I'm going to pick up a new distributor anyway (because warranty, and why not). I'll jumper the relay and try. for sure. I double checked the coil, and it definitely has power across the primary, and the coil sparks when the negative is briefly grounded out. SO the main relay basically tells the fuel pump to turn on when it receives pulses from the distributor? I know when I turn the key to ON I can hear the pump turn on briefly.

The pump only runs for about 3-5 seconds if there is a no fire condition. I click the key on and the click of the relay and then the whir of the pump.

If you do jump it out it is there FOR SAFETY so get it fixed correctly. You dont want the pump running if your in a car accident.