Warm restart issue

[Shane86]

It was the 2 prong closest to the head.

The car wouldn't start again Thursday night, and I actually had a chance to do some proper diagnosis. Pressing the pedal to the floor did nothing this time. I'm definitely getting fuel, because I can smell it. And I'm definitely getting fire. Sort of... The spark is underwhelming, coming in a 22k volts when it should be closer to 30k if I'm understanding things properly. My coil is new, so I doubt it's that. Nor do I think it's the dizzie because I tested before it too and got the same meager 22k volts. So I'm thinking whatever is wrong is happening before the dizzie. I've noticed that when this happens, the starter doesn't run as strong, like the battery is tired. I've also had a few starts where the entire electrical system is dead when I turn the key. No dash lights, no start, no nothing. If I turn off the key, jiggle it and try again, it starts normally. Thus, I have a new ignition switch coming.

I need to get snuggly with the wiring diagrams today to see what's happening before the coil. I think that fuel pressure gauge above is a good idea too, so I'll order that, just to be sure of what the fuel is doing.

This is the weirdest thing. The car will crank, but not fire. It won't even try to fire. It doesn't cough, sputter, choke or anything. It just spins.

All thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

I may be wrong but I believe on 88-89 the TW switch is the green plug the one that's not closest to the Head. On 86-87 the green plug is closest to the Head

[Dr_Snooz]

if you get low like under 12 volts the car will crank but not fire. I got mine to fire off at 11.5 volts but just as I let the key off it fired. Thats 11.5volts at the battery at rest,cranking voltage could fall to 9 volts.

Long shot I doubt thats your problem.

I can test it, right? I have the tool here. I'm also thinking a Big 3 upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea. Or cleaning up my existing ground connections at least. They aren't dirty, but after 30 years on those tiny wires, who knows?

New ignition switch arrived today. Not sure when I'll get it swapped.

[JDMhotboi]

I’ve been having this issue too.

[Oldblueaccord]

I can test it, right? I have the tool here. I'm also thinking a Big 3 upgrade wouldn't be a bad idea. Or cleaning up my existing ground connections at least. They aren't dirty, but after 30 years on those tiny wires, who knows?

New ignition switch arrived today. Not sure when I'll get it swapped.

yeah with a meter even at the battery will show you voltage drop etc.

Double check what Shane said you changed out the correct TW sensor.

EDIT looking at Niles post in the link above its the green connector sensor.

On the quick I would unhook it and see if you get code 6. I think the no start trick is to jump the connector with a paper clip of unknown length and origin to get the resistance close enough for the ECU call for the correct fuel.

[Dr_Snooz]

I don't know. I replaced the sensor the manual identified as the TW sensor. When I disconnected it, the engine immediately died. The other is a thermoswitch, for the fans I assume. I'm pretty confident that I got the right one, but who knows?

Work is killing me with the overtime right now. It's a good problem to have, so I'm not complaining. Just tired. I bought the big battery tester from Harbor Freight and it should tell me a lot. I'll test it when I can get a chance. Hopefully tomorrow, but we'll see.

Thank you everyone for the help.

[Shane86]

When you unplug the TW switch you should automatically get a code 6

[Dr_Snooz]

I bought the eBay fuel gauge (thanks Shane!) and put it on today: 9 psi at idle. I ran it around the block and got it up to 7 psi.

OMG.

I can hardly believe that's right. Would the car even run if it were that low?

[Shane86]

I bought the eBay fuel gauge (thanks Shane!) and put it on today: 9 psi at idle. I ran it around the block and got it up to 7 psi.

OMG.

I can hardly believe that's right. Would the car even run if it were that low?

Wow stock pressure should be around 34 psi. When's the last time you replace the fuel pump or the pressure regulator

[Shane86]

Here's another little item that allows you to modify your fuel pressure regulator to where you can adjust your fuel pressure. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F113317998206


And here's the how to. https://www.3geez.com/forum/how/6345...regulator.html

[InAccordance]

I had one of those on my Prelude, worked great.
I actually still have a regulator with the top cut off which is what you have to do with those.

[Shane86]

I had one of those on my Prelude, worked great.
I actually still have a regulator with the top cut off which is what you have to do with those.

Yes when I swap to the B16 intake manifold I just swap the part over. And I am still using it to this day

[Dr_Snooz]

Wow stock pressure should be around 34 psi. When's the last time you replace the fuel pump or the pressure regulator

I think they're original...

[Shane86]

I think they're original...

Yeah I would Prime the system up cycle the key let the fuel pump Prime and check for leaks. Fuel pressure should be around 30 to 35. It may be time for a new pump or regulator

[Oldblueaccord]

I bought the eBay fuel gauge (thanks Shane!) and put it on today: 9 psi at idle. I ran it around the block and got it up to 7 psi.

OMG.

I can hardly believe that's right. Would the car even run if it were that low?

I cant see it running that low...even at like 25 psi my car would barely idle and the AFR would be way lean. I think they E bay gauge is junk. You are checking it on the fuel filter banjo bolts?

[conozo]

I don't think that's right either.

I installed one of these cheap universal fuel pressure regulator with a guage and it's works well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Jdm-Adjusta...981?nav=SEARCH

[Oldblueaccord]

I think they're original...

Pulling the vacuum line off the regulator should give you full fuel pressure like stated about 38 psi.

My cars not holding pressure at all but it starts fairly well warm just a few extra cranks to get it going. Cold it needs to be primed up a few keys clicks to fire off cleanly.

[Dr_Snooz]

I have my precision instrument Harbor Freight Master Fuel Injection Pressure Test kit here so I can verify the reading. The kit is pretty accurate as far as I can tell. It's pretty sad that the kit I bought from Harbor Freight is 1/4 the price that my local mechanic paid for the kit he got from some pro vendor, yet looks exactly the same. Do the jokers running these companies not understand how this ends for them? They're charging 4x what they should to mail me the same stuff I can buy in town, same day, for 1/4 the price? It's like they WANT to go out of business.

Here's the deal though. I pretty much just piddled around on the car yesterday. I swapped in the new ignition switch and cleaned up the ground wires on the car. I didn't do anything fancy, just wire brushed the contact points for each ground and greased them with dielectric grease. There was the tiniest bit of rust on the contact surfaces. More like discoloration than dust. Nothing even remotely crusty. I also put on new brake pads, front and rear, Wagner QuickStop, and installed the new fuel pressure gauge, obviously.

Today, I've had 2 clean warm starts, as in 3 cranks and the car fires up. There was no roughness or sputtering. It may be coincidence, or it may be something I did to the car yesterday, but I think the car is happy about the rims. ;-)

[Dr_Snooz]

Well, two more warm starts today without issue. I guess this problem is solved. I'm not sure what I did, but you can take your pick from the above. I'm glad it works again.

[InAccordance]

ignition switch probably lol

[AC439]

So Snooz, is your fuel pressure back up to spec now ?

When I was troubleshooting my still occurring 2k rpm shake, I did the fuel volume flow test (was low so I changed the fuel pump) and then tested fuel pressure with the Harbor Fright fuel pressure testing gauge taped to the windshield so I can read it under different condition.

But even when my volume test was about 50% below spec, the car ran fine. I could not believe your engine can run with only 7-9 psi.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's running so good now, I didn't even test it. It's one of those maybe-I-don't-want-to-know-right-now kind of deals. I really need to replace the rack before I do much else. I bashed it pretty good when I hit the curb. It's not functioning well.

What a remarkable car that it can have awful tires and half wore-out parts and accident damage and still put a big grin on your face. My brother test drove a new Civic Si recently and was completely unimpressed. I wasn't especially impressed with it either. How can so much engineering go into these new cars and they still be so much worse than an old beater that's barely hanging together?

[carotman]

So, the problem isn't there anymore but it should still be there? I hate those.

[Dr_Snooz]

I don't know, honestly. The car is old and I'm finding that things are deteriorating without my realizing it, like the injectors. There's probably a lot of things contributing to the warm restart issue, with the grounds and ignition switch being the worst offenders. Replacing those is enough to get me running right again, so I'm content to leave it there.

There comes a point in the life of a car when you have to replace entire systems from stem to stern. I'm definitely at that point, which is why I'm looking into engine swaps, asking about coilovers, etc. My wheels were in the worst shape with two wore out tires, two crappy Chinese tires, 1-2 bent rims and a tire size that no one offers anymore. I've handled that now, which leaves my steering as the next big project. For that, I need to replace everything: rack, pump, hoses, reservoir, everything. Coilovers and front suspension are probably next. Brakes are on the list too. Other stuff, like grounds and wiring, is getting patched up until I can get to it in a more holistic way.

The whole process is a tricky one. My desire is to replace everything with new OE parts. Sadly, Honda took that option away 2 decades ago. I'm having to figure out how to retrofit stuff in, but I want the retrofitted stuff to be reliable. Reliable in the sense of it working well and not breaking, but also in the larger sense of my being able to find replacement parts and technical support when it does finally break.

TMI, TLDR, I know. Executive summary: The original problem is sufficiently solved that I'm not going to worry about it anymore.

[InAccordance]

Sad part is that most of the parts that are available are Chinese knockoffs that dont fit right or wear out quickly. I put spanking new calipers, hydraulic hoses, pads, rotors, the works... already having a caliper drag after a few months.
Just cheap parts.
I think dropping 400$+ on those wilwoods would actually be the best option in the long run. At least they would last a long time.

[Dr_Snooz]

I agree. The quality of the hot rod stuff is incredible. That's why I'm trying to retrofit their stuff in. It's the best of the best, and a lot of the suppliers have been around since I was a kid: Holley, Edelbrock, MSD, Wilwood, B&M, Hurst, Enkei, etc. They are US-based companies who create good jobs for their people. They run good businesses. You can call them on the phone with a problem and be talking to a US-based engineer in the same call. No run around, no BS. Will Honda ever do that for you? They'll yank the rug out from under you without a second thought. Which is great because all these evil corporations are going out of business now. They've earned it and I won't miss them.

I'll try to call Wilwood and see if they still offer those calipers and more importantly, if they intend to keep making the pads and parts for a long, long time.