Warm restart issue

[InAccordance]

Summit has them for 399$ last I looked.

[Dr_Snooz]

Moving the discussion over to a dedicated thread: https://www.3geez.com/forum/suspensi...ml#post1212677

[InAccordance]

word

[Oldblueaccord]

I don't know. I replaced the sensor the manual identified as the TW sensor. When I disconnected it, the engine immediately died. The other is a thermoswitch, for the fans I assume. I'm pretty confident that I got the right one, but who knows?

Work is killing me with the overtime right now. It's a good problem to have, so I'm not complaining. Just tired. I bought the big battery tester from Harbor Freight and it should tell me a lot. I'll test it when I can get a chance. Hopefully tomorrow, but we'll see.

Thank you everyone for the help.

I unhooked my TW switch today and the car keep running and I can restart it.



Unhooked and code 6 running at idle and at 2 grand for 1 min its noticeably richer. It starts at 13.6 and runs down to 12.8 pretty quick.

[Shane86]

I unhooked my TW switch today and the car keep running and I can restart it.



Unhooked and code 6 running at idle and at 2 grand for 1 min its noticeably richer. It starts at 13.6 and runs down to 12.8 pretty quick.

Just to confirm so the green plug is the TW switch

[Dr_Snooz]

From the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual:



From the Service Manual:



TW sensor is closest to the head. The other is Coolant Temp Switch B. It's one of 2 switches that operate the cooling fans, at least on my '89 EFI AC equipped car.

Wiring diagrams and explanations for the cooling fan circuit are on p. 202 of the '89 Electrical Troubleshooting Manual. Diagrams and explanation for the EFI system and TW sensor are on p. 248 of the same. I can't speak to individual cars, or model years other than 88-89, but this is what Honda intended to come out of their factories, and barring industrial sabotage or corrupt union intrigue, that's probably how they came. I'm not trying to be combative; I just don't want people chasing their tails needlessly. Electrical troubleshooting is hard enough without going down blind alleys.



In looking at this more closely, I found that the wires going to my TW sensor (closest to the head) are completely severed in 2 places! I don't know how that didn't trip the CEL, but even if there were enough stray strands connecting together to prevent a CEL, there weren't enough to give a clean signal. That's probably why the car has more power some days than other days, why the idle occasionally becomes rough and my warm restarts are iffy. Now that I've found the opens, the CEL is lit. Thanks for being a day late and a dollar short! I'll replace that connector and see what happens. I do still have some roughness occasionally on warm restarts which I don't like.

Does anyone know if this connector would work for that application?

Thanks for your help guys!

[Shane86]

From the Electrical Troubleshooting Manual:



From the Service Manual:



TW sensor is closest to the head. The other is Coolant Temp Switch B. It's one of 2 switches that operate the cooling fans, at least on my '89 EFI AC equipped car.

Wiring diagrams and explanations for the cooling fan circuit are on p. 202 of the '89 Electrical Troubleshooting Manual. Diagrams and explanation for the EFI system and TW sensor are on p. 248 of the same. I can't speak to individual cars, or model years other than 88-89, but this is what Honda intended to come out of their factories, and barring industrial sabotage or corrupt union intrigue, that's probably how they came. I'm not trying to be combative; I just don't want people chasing their tails needlessly. Electrical troubleshooting is hard enough without going down blind alleys.



In looking at this more closely, I found that the wires going to my TW sensor (closest to the head) are completely severed in 2 places! I don't know how that didn't trip the CEL, but even if there were enough stray strands connecting together to prevent a CEL, there weren't enough to give a clean signal. That's probably why the car has more power some days than other days, why the idle occasionally becomes rough and my warm restarts are iffy. Now that I've found the opens, the CEL is lit. Thanks for being a day late and a dollar short! I'll replace that connector and see what happens. I do still have some roughness occasionally on warm restarts which I don't like.

Does anyone know if this connector would work for that application?

Thanks for your help guys!

Here's a link where you can get the terminals to crimp to the wire. Motorcycle .090 - 2.3mm Connector and Terminals the two pin HV 90

[Oldblueaccord]

Just to confirm so the green plug is the TW switch

For my car a 1988 J code car I would say yes. its gave code 6.

I suspected it would run rich and it seemed to running 2000 rpms for about a min more. I was stationary just running it in my driveway.

[Dr_Snooz]

I replaced my connector today and I can verify that the eBay connector above works. It also comes with a nice length of wire attached, which makes it easy to replace, especially if you have to cut off a long length of hard crusty wire from your old loom. The old wire was pretty hammered on mine. Multiple breaks and very hard. I can't believe it never gave me a CEL like that.

I unhooked my TW switch today and the car keep running and I can restart it.



Unhooked and code 6 running at idle and at 2 grand for 1 min its noticeably richer. It starts at 13.6 and runs down to 12.8 pretty quick.

Out of curiosity, I did the exact same test with my car today after replacing the connector and got the exact same results with the opposite sensor. I pulled the new connector while the car was running. It coughed, recovered and flashed a code 6. The idle went up and it smelled richer. I tried pulling the other connector and nothing happened. Technically Blue, our cars should be the same. It's not like a 86-87 vs. 88-89 difference. I'm flummoxed. Mine was made in the US, so maybe that explains it?

[AC439]

I broke both connectors and repaired them by soldering and JB/epoxy. Next time may get new connectors.

[Oldblueaccord]

I replaced my connector today and I can verify that the eBay connector above works. It also comes with a nice length of wire attached, which makes it easy to replace, especially if you have to cut off a long length of hard crusty wire from your old loom. The old wire was pretty hammered on mine. Multiple breaks and very hard. I can't believe it never gave me a CEL like that.




Out of curiosity, I did the exact same test with my car today after replacing the connector and got the exact same results with the opposite sensor. I pulled the new connector while the car was running. It coughed, recovered and flashed a code 6. The idle went up and it smelled richer. I tried pulling the other connector and nothing happened. Technically Blue, our cars should be the same. It's not like a 86-87 vs. 88-89 difference. I'm flummoxed. Mine was made in the US, so maybe that explains it?

Huh well i had to read that twice...I thought I removed the connector on the other one but maybe I didnt. Im with you the wire and connectors are at the end of there life I dont like messing with them. I messed up the temp wire just knocking around in there.

[Dr_Snooz]

Wire problems are a real headache. Looms are expensive and wire problems are difficult to track down. I keep boxes of various sized split loom on hand and make sure to keep all my wires covered as much as possible. The loom gets brittle from the heat, crumbles and falls off and I replace it when that happens. Basically, the split loom crumbles and falls off instead of your wire insulation. As an added benefit, the split loom makes it harder for the field mice here to eat the wires inside. (Grrrrr...) Still, there' a finite lifetime for everything, and while wires deeper in the loom appear to be fine, the wire on the ends is hard and brittle, especially in that area around the coolant neck.

As a complete aside/threadjack, I really hate crimp connectors. They are fat, clumsy and ugly. They add bulk to looms and keep wires from fitting inside their split loom covers. I'd try soldering, but what I've read says not to do it in an engine bay because the vibration and heat cycling can cause failure. This time I stripped off the big fat plastic cover from my crimp connectors and used the metal barrels alone, covered with heat shrink. I'm much happier with the results, but i'd still prefer something sleeker. It's just me being overly fussy. Again. Anyway, tomorrow is another week of commuting, so we'll see how well my repair holds up.

[carotman]

As a complete aside/threadjack, I really hate crimp connectors. They are fat, clumsy and ugly. They add bulk to looms and keep wires from fitting inside their split loom covers. I'd try soldering, but what I've read says not to do it in an engine bay because the vibration and heat cycling can cause failure. This time I stripped off the big fat plastic cover from my crimp connectors and used the metal barrels alone, covered with heat shrink. I'm much happier with the results, but i'd still prefer something sleeker. It's just me being overly fussy. Again. Anyway, tomorrow is another week of commuting, so we'll see how well my repair holds up.

I now use these:

https://kojaycat.co.uk/15mm-1mm-U-Jo...to-Cable-Crimp

It's even better than solder and this is how the OEM loom was made.

[Shane86]

I now use these:

https://kojaycat.co.uk/15mm-1mm-U-Jo...to-Cable-Crimp

It's even better than solder and this is how the OEM loom was made.

I use these as well

[Dr_Snooz]

You send away to England for them? What crimper do you use?

My warm restart issue has returned, BTW. It seems to resolve if I wiggle the battery cables. I'm putting a Big 3 upgrade on the list. Anyone have a pretty way to crimp battery cables?

[Shane86]

I get my stuff in the United States here's a link to the called splices. Splice Terminals


And I use a open Barrel crimper tool. Just the cheap one off eBay I can't afford the 200 for a real one. Or small pair of pliers will work. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F133102062423

[Oldblueaccord]

You send away to England for them? What crimper do you use?

My warm restart issue has returned, BTW. It seems to resolve if I wiggle the battery cables. I'm putting a Big 3 upgrade is on the list. Anyone have a pretty way to crimp battery cables?

The bolt and screw place I goto makes battery cables so they have all the crimp stuff. If I buy the ends theyll crimp onto used wires for me anyway.

Else use a vice and rig up some jaws to do it.

[Dr_Snooz]

I get my stuff in the United States here's a link to the called splices. Splice Terminals


And I use a open Barrel crimper tool. Just the cheap one off eBay I can't afford the 200 for a real one. Or small pair of pliers will work. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F133102062423

I actually have one of those crimpers. LOL

The splice terminals are nice. I'm going to pick up a bunch of those. Thanks guys!

[InAccordance]

I was having ground issues that would cause non restarts. I just took a 12g wire and stuck some ring terminals on it. One end to ground on battery and one end to a random bolt on the car body. Never happened again.

[Dr_Snooz]

I think it's the fuel pressure regulator.

I've had the luxury of ignoring this issue, and have made little progress on it. Work is an hour away, one way, and my daily drive involves going out in the morning when the car is cool, starting it up and driving straight to work. In the evening, I go out again when the car is cool, start it up and drive straight home. It's a problem, but one that doesn't really impact me. Even so, it's been hard to ignore the problem getting steadily worse to the point that even cold starts are becoming sluggish. I made the mistake today of driving the car for my weekly shopping run (and not the truck like I usually do). When I came out from my first stop, I was hosed. The car would not start no matter how much I ground it, or held the throttle open. As I troubleshot and cursed, I noticed that the valve cover ground wire was unusually hot, which confirms that I need a Big 3 upgrade. I grabbed the jumper cables from the trunk and rigged up my own ground, which did nothing. So a Big 3 upgrade won't help this issue. What I couldn't ignore was the overwhelming stench of fresh gas every time I cranked the starter. It was BAD. I pulled the fuel injector fuse and the car started right up. It died again immediately, but hey, that's progress. I confirmed on the web that vacuum controlled regulators can go bad and flood the engine. So I got tricky and unplugged the main relay, started the car and plugged it back in immediately, which worked great for every start after that! So at least I have a workaround while I order an FPR. The only real problem now is that these regulators run $85-$100 at the parts stores around here. Thank God Rock Auto has them for $32. I just hope they work well.

TLDR, I know, but if anyone has any input, it's welcome.

[ShiRen]

Going full return and fitting my car with something like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-27001/overview/ has always interested me

[Oldblueaccord]

I think it's the fuel pressure regulator.

I've had the luxury of ignoring this issue, and have made little progress on it. Work is an hour away, one way, and my daily drive involves going out in the morning when the car is cool, starting it up and driving straight to work. In the evening, I go out again when the car is cool, start it up and drive straight home. It's a problem, but one that doesn't really impact me. Even so, it's been hard to ignore the problem getting steadily worse to the point that even cold starts are becoming sluggish. I made the mistake today of driving the car for my weekly shopping run (and not the truck like I usually do). When I came out from my first stop, I was hosed. The car would not start no matter how much I ground it, or held the throttle open. As I troubleshot and cursed, I noticed that the valve cover ground wire was unusually hot, which confirms that I need a Big 3 upgrade. I grabbed the jumper cables from the trunk and rigged up my own ground, which did nothing. So a Big 3 upgrade won't help this issue. What I couldn't ignore was the overwhelming stench of fresh gas every time I cranked the starter. It was BAD. I pulled the fuel injector fuse and the car started right up. It died again immediately, but hey, that's progress. I confirmed on the web that vacuum controlled regulators can go bad and flood the engine. So I got tricky and unplugged the main relay, started the car and plugged it back in immediately, which worked great for every start after that! So at least I have a workaround while I order an FPR. The only real problem now is that these regulators run $85-$100 at the parts stores around here. Thank God Rock Auto has them for $32. I just hope they work well.

TLDR, I know, but if anyone has any input, it's welcome.

So too much fuel pressure?

Im not understanding.


if you were really cranking on the car the cables can get hot. A hot starter and heavy battery draw the amps can go over 200ADC pretty easy.

[Dr_Snooz]

Going full return and fitting my car with something like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-27001/overview/ has always interested me

Very intriguing. I'm not sure how I'd mount that to the existing rail but it's interesting. If the FPR coming from Rock Auto doesn't work out, I may look at that more closely. I'm not excited about spending $100 on an OE regulator, but for a rebuildable, quality aftermarket part, I'd be willing.

So too much fuel pressure?

Not sure. I don't know how this regulator works, honestly. It could be too much pressure, or not enough so the gas isn't atomizing properly? I know the car is flooding out real bad and this is about the only thing left that could be doing that. I've already replaced the injectors, and the pump pressure is within spec. We'll see what happens.

[Oldblueaccord]

Very intriguing. I'm not sure how I'd mount that to the existing rail but it's interesting. If the FPR coming from Rock Auto doesn't work out, I may look at that more closely. I'm not excited about spending $100 on an OE regulator, but for a rebuildable, quality aftermarket part, I'd be willing.



Not sure. I don't know how this regulator works, honestly. It could be too much pressure, or not enough so the gas isn't atomizing properly? I know the car is flooding out real bad and this is about the only thing left that could be doing that. I've already replaced the injectors, and the pump pressure is within spec. We'll see what happens.

The regulator restricts the return fuel hence making pressure before it. I would think if it would fail it would be open and make less pressure...open flow.

I use an AEM adjustable and run flat 40 psi.

https://jhpusa.com/products/aem-high...or-honda-acura

I agree if you smell gas its flooded for sure. I still suspect the temp sensor or even maybe the main relay...just a connection week someplace. Something is making the injectors get confused and flood on start.

[ShiRen]

If you dont use a Honda style fpr like that AEM you can always make a fuel rail. Thar one was just my choice because im carby, but I also picked it for turbo and I probably wont go down that road.