Notes on Rack Replacement

[Dr_Snooz]

I hope everyone's Thanksgiving was good.

I had a 4 day weekend this week, so I replaced my rack. It was a lot easier this time than when I did it on my '82 Accord more than 2 decades ago. Here is what I learned:

1. The "steering joint," those couple u-joints that connect the steering column to the rack, were where I struggled the most last time. Honda says to "disconnect" the steering joint as part of the removal process. But that's ambiguous, leading me to believe that loosening the bolts would be sufficient. It wasn't. You need to loosen and REMOVE the retaining bolts entirely. The lower bolt rests in a groove cut into the rack's spline shaft. If you don't remove the bolt, you will never get the rack separated from the steering joint. That little tidbit took me 2 days of violent, uncontrollable swearing to figure out on my '82. What a fiasco.

2. The hard lines are difficult to re-connect and will require some mild bending to align them properly. Don't be afraid to tweak them as needed.

3. Starting fluid is magic. When I did the replacement on my '82, the rack had been leaking badly for some time. The mess was everywhere and fell all over me as I worked. It was the dirtiest job I've ever done. Possibly even dirtier than some of my junkyard odysseys spent rolling in the oily dirt to wrestle out transmissions. The filthiness of the rack job sucked soooooo much. Starting fluid magically removes oil, slimy residue and all. It's like magic. I did my timing belt last week and had a leak so bad it soaked the belt. Everything inside the timing cover was drenched. The block there is so uneven, there's no way to wipe it off, but fifteen seconds with a can of starting fluid left the block looking like there had never been an oil leak at all. A can costs $3.50, which is a small price to pay for not turning yourself into a Superfund site when you do a rack replacement.

Anyway, hope that helps someone else.

[AWH]

Good job there,thanks for the details of it.
I am not up to date.but last I knew,your 3G Accord wasn't running as far as I know. Is it running now,and was this rack for that car If so.nice.

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[Oldblueaccord]

Hey did you think the U joint was worn at all? Is there a replacement available?

its one of those things I always wanted to change out along with the rack bushings but never got around to it.

[Dr_Snooz]

Good job there,thanks for the details of it.
I am not up to date.but last I knew,your 3G Accord wasn't running as far as I know. Is it running now,and was this rack for that car If so.nice.

This car was a victim of the infamous Canola Oil Incident. The engine was almost new when that happened and the bearings got banged a little bit. I replaced the oil with Mobil 1 and they were still banging, so I parked the car and gave up for four years. Poverty and discouragement were too overwhelming at that time. When I got a new job a couple years ago, it came with a 90 mile daily commute, which was not appropriate for a 13 MPG truck. I dusted off the Red Car, fired her up and she acted nothing had ever happened. Sometimes miracles do happen. Even for me. She runs like a champ every day now.

Anyway, I've done a major re-think and am now in the process of replacing all the subsystems of the car. Pretty much everything is worn out and tired, and mostly irreplaceable. So I'm getting what I can and shoehorning alternatives in where I can't. I've just done the steering. Brakes and suspension are coming. Eventually I'll have to figure out how to swap another drivetrain in. Probably a K20 from an RSX Type S, but that's a ways off still.

Hey did you think the U joint was worn at all? Is there a replacement available?

its one of those things I always wanted to change out along with the rack bushings but never got around to it.

There's some slop but nothing that caused real alarm. The steering in these cars is so precise that you can have a lot of slop and still be miles better than a GM truck. I'd be surprised if you could find a new joint anywhere.

Since you bring it up, I think we'll have to figure out how to put another kind of rack in there before we'll have to worry about replacing that joint. You can't find new racks anymore and the remans are a pretty sorry lot. I'm holding my breath to see if my reman works. Anything newer that we put in will probably not fit in our subframes without modification. None will offer ports for a hydraulic speed sensor either, so we'll have to figure that out too. It might be easier to change to a manual rack. Anyway, after all that, fabbing a different steering joint will be the easiest part of the job.

BTW, does anyone know if I should put in Honda PS fluid or something else in my fresh new system? Both the new rack and pump bled red fluid, so I don't know. The rack does say to use OE fluid. But that would be incompatible with the trans fluid that appears to be in there now.

[Dr_Snooz]

Does anyone have a complete list of all suspension bushings? All of mine are original and need to be replaced.

[InAccordance]

I got the a-1 cardone remand (I know but it's been fine so far) and it came with red fluid in it too. I assume it's like when you get new rotors and they're covered in oil, just an anti-rust/coorosion sort of thing. The guy who did mine ran some fluid through and bled the red stuff out. Then fill with ps fluid.

[InAccordance]

I wonder if we could adapt a wheel sensor for speed. It's what the high end Holley fi systems use. Would have to adapt an electronic speedometer as well.

[Dr_Snooz]

Well, there's the magnetic pulser in the speedo that produces 4 pulses per revolution, I think. You could maybe adapt that signal with a lot of hacking and coding. Not bloody likely. Failing that, CV axles with toothed wheels are ubiquitous now. Just mount a magnet and you're golden. You'd also have to figure out what kind of input the controller would want. There might even be a PS kit you could buy from Summit or someplace. My official plan is to find an '05-06 RSX Type S, then simply move all that stuff over in one go: toothed axle ring, speedo, ECU, TCU, seats, brakes, whatever. No real hacking needed then. It's the only way I'd get it to pass smog here too, so that helps. You basically just pretend that the car is an '05 RSX when you go to smog.

[InAccordance]

Always wondered if a manual rack out of a 1st gen CRX could be made to work..

[AC439]

.....Anyway, I've done a major re-think and am now in the process of replacing all the subsystems of the car. Pretty much everything is worn out and tired, and mostly irreplaceable.....

BTW, does anyone know if I should put in Honda PS fluid or something else in my fresh new system? Both the new rack and pump bled red fluid, so I don't know. The rack does say to use OE fluid. But that would be incompatible with the trans fluid that appears to be in there now.

I feel the same with my LXi too. Things are worn out and tired and it is hard to find parts to replace.....

I did my steering rack 2-3 years back and it was a job I don't want to do again. I use Honda PS fluid after replacement. Somehow, after the replacement, the steering assist is heavy and there is occasionally a little bit of leak. I re-torqued all the hard lines and they all good. For the steering effort, I bought that 40mm rack guide tool. I have been loosen the rack guide screw up a little at a time trying to lighten the steering effort (but still not back to the way it was). I have also rebuilt the pump cause people are saying the pump can be weak but no difference after rebuild. I can only say by process of elimination, the reman rack has the rack guide screw in too tight. There is some power steering but definitely not as light as typically Honda cars.

[conozo]

I bought all Moog suspension bushings a few months ago, I looked at moogs website and Rock Auto to make sure I had them all. Haven't put them in yet but it looked like I've got everyone. My bushings are all original btw.

[Dr_Snooz]

You got the bushings that hold the trailing arm to the rear spindle?

[conozo]

I'll get out the box and check them all to see what i got tonight.

[Oldblueaccord]

You got the bushings that hold the trailing arm to the rear spindle?

Yeah I have never seen those either.

I never have never done a lot to the rear suspension of our cars because there is some type "rear steering" toe out? condition on compression that makes our cars special in my eyes. Its like Dave Colmen and the new Miata's. I think its all done with the bushings.

The only things I have done to the rear:

1. Energy Suspension sway bar bushings

2. Ingalls upper control arm with poly bushing,more for adjustable negative camber. I haven't see these available in a long time. I want to change the poly joint to the body to a sperical joint but I need a spare set to do it with.

3. Solid bushed the lower shock mount,but now the K sports are poly I think.

[InAccordance]

Rockauto still sells the adjustable rear arms. I have them in mine and so far no problems.

[Dr_Snooz]

I never have never done a lot to the rear suspension of our cars because there is some type "rear steering" toe out? condition on compression that makes our cars special in my eyes. Its like Dave Colmen and the new Miata's. I think its all done with the bushings.

Say what? That's sounds like black magic there. I agree that there is something so magical about the suspension that I don't want to do anything to it. The way I can throw it around and it doesn't care is so rare. I've never seen it in another car. I just need to get the power up in mine.

[gp02a0083]

You got the bushings that hold the trailing arm to the rear spindle?

Ive been collecting a few of them over the years, they are a very difficult part to find. Over the christmas break i should take the calipers to it and spec it out to see if anither vendor has an off the shelf item that will work. Otherwise probably would have to make them. Maybe hockey pucks lol?

[AWH]

Say what? That's sounds like black magic there. I agree that there is something so magical about the suspension that I don't want to do anything to it. The way I can throw it around and it doesn't care is so rare. I've never seen it in another car. I just need to get the power up in mine.

Something isn't right here ,my name is above the quote, but is was InAccordance who replied that to you.

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[Dr_Snooz]

[Oldblueaccord]

You got the bushings that hold the trailing arm to the rear spindle?

the book calls them knuckle bushings

[Oldblueaccord]

Say what? That's sounds like black magic there. I agree that there is something so magical about the suspension that I don't want to do anything to it. The way I can throw it around and it doesn't care is so rare. I've never seen it in another car. I just need to get the power up in mine.

Dave explains all.....6min mark on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMyoaICX5Fk#t=6m51s

[Dr_Snooz]

Like I was saying: black magic. LOL