Sudden drop in power then lurch

[AWH]

For that AB Prelude it was one line indeed. So it's not the right one for yours,you need two. Pic.was just to show example and possibly an adress or something.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn E5823 met Tapatalk

[AWH]

Check for correct mounting base too.

[ShiRen]

The VC339 looks right, but for some reason 30104-PC7-663 for the Prelude does not cross to 30104-PH4-664 for the Accord. Both are a vac advance for a TEC distributor, I don't know any reason they would not be interchangeable.

[AWH]

More there. Check for Vacuum Advance Distributor. Honda....

Verstuurd vanaf mijn E5823 met Tapatalk

[AWH]

Did you search on Accord ones

Verstuurd vanaf mijn E5823 met Tapatalk

[Dr_Snooz]

Vac advance seems like a long shot to me. You can do a hillbilly check by removing it, pressing in the plunger, holding your finger over the hole and seeing if the plunger rises. If it does, the thing is bad. I'd spend some quality time with the manual, checking all the little dash pots, solenoids and other assorted wizardry attached to the carb. Do you notice any changes in the smell of the exhaust when this happens? Like smelling rich, lean, etc?

[Sandwich]

Vac advance seems like a long shot to me. You can do a hillbilly check by removing it, pressing in the plunger, holding your finger over the hole and seeing if the plunger rises. If it does, the thing is bad. I'd spend some quality time with the manual, checking all the little dash pots, solenoids and other assorted wizardry attached to the carb. Do you notice any changes in the smell of the exhaust when this happens? Like smelling rich, lean, etc?

Cheers for the help guys, in terms of the vac advance I;ve narrowed it down to the VC333, VC339, VC414, VC411 & VC283.

Juggling the car and coursework is interesting atm, but plan is to check timing and then test the Vac Ad this weekend, got a few more suggestions from aerodeck owners, I am considering buy a whole new dizzy if it is the vac ad thats bad, since then I know the seals and gaskets aren't gonna go next...

Its Fuel injected not carb FYI, other bits im gonna look at after are: control valve and thermovalve, maybe idle boost solenoid valve. These Fi cars dont have a choke right?

Cheers!

[AWH]

As far as I know they do have an automatic choke. Controlled by a wax element if I am correct. One of those two vaclines from advance is for cold idling. Not sure which one.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn E5823 met Tapatalk

[Sandwich]

Really no clue whats going on now... I'll talk through what I did today, thanks for bearing with me! Feel like its totally fcking fcked...

Started initially to test the vacuum going to vac ad diaphragm as per 12-56 in the manual. Both #12 and #15 have vacuum at idle. Let it idle for a while to warm up (replaced fan thermosensor although that didnt trigger so was waiting a while for fan to turn on), ended up having to cut the ignition because the temp got quite high as fan didnt turn on. Through this first test the car was idling well, from the high idle at startup to normal idle at ~800 RPM, throttle response seemed good too. Lot of white smoke coming from exhaust initially, reduced to nothing eventually, been like this the last 4 months of me owning it. The engine got quite hot, yet this didnt seem to detriment idle at all weirdly? i.e. I couldnt recreate the issue I had previously at a warm temp, I didnt drive it although it was definitely warm. see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/g5XF4FTRUx9VPSt88

After cutting it, I let it cool and shorted the thermosensor plug so fan would be auto on (which worked). Started the car and straight away idle worse. see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wo3wxyMJT8Pg5hPA7
I could hear a dull whine as it dropped below 750RPM, you can hear it well here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XuLyKwCW3XAZrWux6
When putting my foot down the response is much worse, it can't hold revs and theres some pops and bangs as the RPM falls to 2k-1k. see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zKunDzvfa4WkDmyc7
As I let it idle for a while (was trying to find the timing mark to no avail) the idle got worse & the sounds got worse, couldnt hear that original whine, now more of a squeek/squeal, and causing the exhaust on the car to shake a decent bit. see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lty2mpMshPsxNb5E7
The vacuum on #12 was also oscillating quite a lot now, is this linked to the unsteadiness of engine revs?

The revs ended up dropping to flicking between ~250-750 and the whole car sound pretty dire. Throttle response was ZERO, I'd put foot down and nothing happens, maybe a slight inclination that its open but would immediately disappear again, I tried at the intake manifold too but no. see here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/P37dyCMDdk74AxGn9


My current thoughts have changed. Why is it bad on the second run but seemingly fine on the first, at all temps? What are all these horrible noises coming from the underside of the car, is it that dreaded rod knock some1 mentioned? i.e. is it totally fckin fcked.
Now I'm thinking its an air leak at the intake manifold...perhaps, still cant explain those noises. Weird because I couldnt hear them at all the first time round, and it was running quite nicely.

Anyone ever had anything like this?

[Oldblueaccord]

Well on the short...when your car gets really hot like that it faults to running really rich and may have fouled the spark plugs.

I would pull them and look at them and replace with new NGK plain copper plugs gapped to spec on the under hood sticker.

If it has over heated before it may have indeed blow the headgasket and your getting occasionally water in the combustion chambers.

[Oldblueaccord]

On the last video your check engine light is on...check the code. It's probably false since the poor running could cause the o2 sensors to fault.

Gas Guage is at zero...it's got petrol in it?

[Sandwich]

On the last video your check engine light is on...check the code. It's probably false since the poor running could cause the o2 sensors to fault.

Gas Guage is at zero...it's got petrol in it?

Cheers old blue, I replaced the plugs as an attempted fix a few weeks back so will have a look at how theyre getting on, they're NGK 5EY-11 which I think are the right ones for my A20A4. I prodded the intake and vac lines with some butane but couldnt find any glaring air leaks at all.

In terms of check engine light, had a look and didnt see it on in vid, only handbrake light. Did check the ECU anyway and got just 1 flash, does that mean o2 like you say or is it a sanity flash?
Dont worry about fuel gauge, the 'hanger' I think its called (the sensor for it), is stuck at zero, yet to get round to looking at that!

How would being 1 tooth out on cambelt be? It ran fine for 400 miles or so after the change until this started happening. Same time I was never 100% confident I lined it up perfectly, since it was hard to get an idea of level.

Cheers!

[Oldblueaccord]

Well I would let it cool down completely, unhook the battery to clear the codes, and do a restart. I'm interested in how I think starts and runs ice cold like the first video.

Do check oil and coolant levels of course while everything is cold.

I don't like the motor noises but the rpm is so low and it's fighting to idle it will rattle the exhaust and miss fire sounds awful combined with low oil pressure at low rpms.

[Oldblueaccord]

Checking the timing belt alignment would not hurt at all.

[Sandwich]

Well I would let it cool down completely, unhook the battery to clear the codes, and do a restart. I'm interested in how I think starts and runs ice cold like the first video.

Do check oil and coolant levels of course while everything is cold.

I don't like the motor noises but the rpm is so low and it's fighting to idle it will rattle the exhaust and miss fire sounds awful combined with low oil pressure at low rpms.

Good shout, I'll pay good attention to how it starts from dead cold tomorrow and get a video of how it changes hopefully. I've got my hands on a timing gun now so should be able get a better idea of how thats looking. Will update. Cheers!

[Oldblueaccord]

Good shout, I'll pay good attention to how it starts from dead cold tomorrow and get a video of how it changes hopefully. I've got my hands on a timing gun now so should be able get a better idea of how thats looking. Will update. Cheers!

Further explanation in general terms:

When fuel injection engine is started cold the ECU uses a fixed set parameters and ignores a lot of the sensor inputs until the engine reaches "operating temperature" I think its 168 F. This is open loop.

Closed loop is when it takes sensor readings and goes off them to set things like the injector timing. Again ,in very general terms, between 1000 and 5000 rpm it looks at the O2 sensor,MAP, and throttle position to try and get the car to run at 14.7 AFR or Lambada 1.0. So warmed up if it starts going crazy then that tells me something like your O2 sensors is bad giving a bad parameter.

So thats part of the equation. The rest is all the mechanical stuff has to be in fair to good shape as well. LETS HOPE!

So if the timing belt was done 400 miles ago? and was running fine I would look at that area for sure. Taking the top timing cover off looking the belt over some and rechecking where the belt is a TDC.

I have run with the belt 4 teeth off for a short period looking for an oil leak. It ran an idled but made zero power. When I bought the car it was one tooth advanced and would ping quite a bit under load even with premium fuel.

Digest all that. Grab a beer ,read the manual a little more and see what you think.

[Dr_Snooz]

I think I'd start with a compression check on that engine. Rough running + lots of crankcase noise + smoke out the tailpipe = .....

[Sandwich]

I think I'd start with a compression check on that engine. Rough running + lots of crankcase noise + smoke out the tailpipe = .....

Didnt get round to doing anything yesterday

Ran a compression test a few months ago, came back with ~140 ~160 on cyls 2-4, & 130 140 cyl1. Coolant doesn't have any oil in, so my assumption was a poor piston ring...
Another thing to do again I think.

[ShiRen]

If you open the rad cap and run the car until its warm does the coolant bubble? Does your coolant disappear mysteriously? It would not surprise me one bit if you have a blown head gasket.

[Sandwich]

Small update, planning to do more tomorrow. I checked coolant level, which was low although a decent bit did overflow out the reservoir tank when it got quite hot the other day. Otherwise it hasnt really been drinking coolant when I've checked it previously, one to keep an eye on. Oil seems about right. No mayo on valve cap.
Smelt the valve area and got a slight tinge of petrol but not massive, mate said to check in case one injector was dumping causing all those pops and bangs and poor performance.

I've attached pics of plugs here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2KGRN3xrdi3LUKqw8
(they should be in order, brick background is cylinder 1)

As for timing, it doesnt look spot on tbh, hard to tell given I couldnt get my phone level for a picture, but I've attached some photos.

[Sandwich]

[ShiRen]

I am confused, you need to rotate the engine a couple more degrees, the crank and cam are both a hair off in your pics, so cyl 1 is not at tdc. Ive found the best way to set timing is rotate the crank to the line on the flywheel, set the cam straight up, doesn't really have to be exact, then pull the timing belt up the left side and rotate the cam slightly ccw by hand until the belt falls in a tooth, this will tension the left side of the belt. Slip the belt all the way on and tighten down the tensioner, give it a few rotations and check again. Looking at the engine from the belt side you have to ballpark the timing, just forget it, set the crank to the timing mark on the flywheel and look at the cam, it will be plainly obvious if it is a tooth off, but you can check with your straight edges if you want. If it is off you are already in position to slip the belt back off and do it again.

[Sandwich]

It's a close as I could get with the piddly wrench I had on the crank, overshot or undershot by couple of degrees, couldnt get it spot on. Didnt actually take the belt off, these are just what it looks like now. Still, I think it is 1 tooth out even with it set bang on TDC. Will get a proper wrench on it tomorrow to line up the crank perfectly.

[Oldblueaccord]

You put it at TDC at the CRANK first. Its off the mark on your first picture. That will move the cam gear alot you will see.

make sure #1 piston its on compression stroke meaning piston at top and BOTH valves close. air comes out the spark plug hole not the exhaust.

[ShiRen]

Don't turn the engine over by the cam, you need to get a socket on the crank through the fender

I wasn't even suggesting the timing is off earlier, you need to line the timing mark up in the flywheel to know. I swear I spend half the time fiddling the crank on that mark whenever I adjust timing, everything moves by A LOT with a tiny nudge on the crank.