Mystery Oil Leak

[Sandwich]

Hey All,

Noticed a small oil leak popped up on the bottom of my oil pan a few weeks ago, seems to have grown a decent bit so investigated, see photos: Shared album - theo jones - Google Photos .
I drove it on Sunday and today is Tuesday, see the size of the 'spill' for size reference. My two thoughts are

a) The washer on the drain plug needs replacing (I didnt touch this after changing oil even though manual says to)

b) Oil is SEEPING through my oil pan as a result of corrosion. This sounds ridiculous at first, but I've had a look around and there doesnt seem to be any constant stream coming from above, furthermore, the whole front section of the pan has corrosion on it and oil seems to coat this bit (higher than the plug itself). Is this even possible? If so I dont like the look of it!

See the photos, Any wisdom appreciated! I wonder if it is the latter what chance I got of bringing this back... any? It doesn't look horrendous to change, and there seem to be some oil pans on RockAuto at least.

Cheers!

PS sorry about all the google photos links, the forum and my PC dont like uploading photos all the time.

[Oldblueaccord]

Im gonna agree with you looks like the pan is rusted thru. They sell them new and the fit pretty ok. The old gasket will be stuck on pretty good and rock hard.

Cheap fix I have used fiberglass patch on oil pans. Pan needs to be cleaned up really well.

[Sandwich]

Im gonna agree with you looks like the pan is rusted thru. They sell them new and the fit pretty ok. The old gasket will be stuck on pretty good and rock hard.

Cheap fix I have used fiberglass patch on oil pans. Pan needs to be cleaned up really well.

Hmm, reckon I'll go all out and buy a new pan if others agree, seems like a literal band-aid that I wouldnt do justice... Cheers

Edit: reckon this is a slow burner or I'm not gonna be able to drive it home for Christmas?

[ShiRen]

Its pretty rusty so you might as well replace it if you are up for it. It is likely your car leaks from other places, but baby steps.

[Dr_Snooz]

The hole appears to be at the bottom of the pan, which is worse than if it was at the top because it will lose all your oil and not just some. And rust always seems to be a lot worse than it looks. Try to jab your thumb through the hole. If you can, then you know it needs to be replaced right now. If you can't, then maybe risk it. It will be awfully expensive if it lets go though.

[Sandwich]

Yeh im hesitant atm, gave it a good prod and didnt go through thankfully, but gonna give it a test run and see how much oil I'm really seeping.

[Oldblueaccord]

Hmm, reckon I'll go all out and buy a new pan if others agree, seems like a literal band-aid that I wouldnt do justice... Cheers

Edit: reckon this is a slow burner or I'm not gonna be able to drive it home for Christmas?

id carry some xtra oil just in case. The oil pan removal on our cars isnt to bad. The rust underneath is going to add xtra to it. The tube from the breather box on the back of the engine to the pan is the worst part probably.

I patched alot of oil pans. I grew up in New York where there is alot of snow and salt damage to vehicles. Chrysler 318 cars seemed to be the ones I did the most. You couldn't get the pan off with out removing the engine so It was the next best thing. Properly done it lasts.

[Sandwich]

Decided against driving it, wouldnt be the best christmas present if it dropped all its oil on the road!

Putting together a shopping list for replacing the oil pan from reading other forum posts, let me know your thoughts/anything you'd recommend I'd do while ive got it and the exhaust off (like oil filter gaskets).

Oil Pan - RA
Oil Pan Gasket - Honda edit: Honda don't have it, gonna go with Fel-Pro I guess, annoying after hearing all the shade thrown on aftermarket Gaskets!
PCV return hose - Is this just generic hose?
Oil Filter housing gasket - RA
Oil Filter housing bolts (do I need this?)
Oil Plug 'crush' washers
Exhaust Gaskets (exhaust to header) & (header to cat)
RTV Grey (I read no silicone but also this recommended?)
or Honda Bond (how does this differ?)
'Lock' Washers (are these for the oil pan itself?)
A Universal Joint (any other useful tools?)

Thanks and Merry Christmas (almost)

[ShiRen]

I don't see any reason to change the oil filter housing bolts, theyre like regular m6 bolts, its not like they put stretch on them from the factory. Idk what you are using the RTV for but Hondabond is not RTV, the difference is it doesn't vulcanize, its strange stuff.

[Sandwich]

I read about people using either honda bond or RTV in very limited quantities to sticky the corners of the gasket, if honda bond is better then ill grab that I reckon

[ShiRen]

Either is fine. I keep both on hand.

[Dr_Snooz]

You talking about something like this, Blue?

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah the fiberglass mesh was what proper shops used...down and dirty on a Saturday night we would just use what we would call Tiger Hair bondo. I really think it was called "cuz". Id patch gas tanks with it too.

[Sandwich]

Hey, does anyone know if the PCV breather hose going to the oil pan is 1 or 3/4 inch diameter?

Also is standard coolant hose alright or do i need something special? Cheers

[Oldblueaccord]

1983-1989 Honda Tube 11854-PC6-010 | Honda Parts Online

I think its this one but the picture shows it going to the oil filter housing and mine goes to the oil pan. I think the 21 mm is inside measurement.

Just to add I just drop the exhaust off the manifold and dont mess with the other connections on the flex pipe or converter.

Hondabond is NON harding sealer. I dont have good luck with it mine hardened in the tube quickly and was very expensive.

I would plan on cleaning and painting some of the parts underneath while you have them off. Fight the rust anyway you can.

EDIT: Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

[Dr_Snooz]

Hey, does anyone know if the PCV breather hose going to the oil pan is 1 or 3/4 inch diameter?

Also is standard coolant hose alright or do i need something special? Cheers

I also want to know this. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that I want to know what standard sized bulk house can be made to work in this application.

[Sandwich]

I also want to know this. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that I want to know what standard sized bulk house can be made to work in this application.

So I bought some generic hose from 'hose world' in the UK. Went with 22mm (7/8 inch) fuelhose, as I read you SHOULDNT use standard heater hose since oil & fuel can degrade it. Looks quite similar and didnt cost much more, think its coated of sorts.

I'll let you know how fitment goes since the prescribed is 21mm, couldnt find anything in that size though and I hope its close enough.

7/8" (22mm) I.D. Fuel hose - FUEL HOSE - FUEL HOSES & TUBINGS - AUTOMOTIVE & MARINE HOSE - Shop

[Sandwich]

Hey.

Couldnt source an OEM gasket for the oil pan so got a Fel-Pro one instead. Was checking how it lines up, looks as though its not quite right, had finger holding over the correct hole, and lined it up in middle and on other side (other photo), see photo:
Shared album - theo jones - Google Photos
Have you guys seen the same thing when replacing pan gaskets or is it not alright?

Cheers.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah thats the fit I remember too.

I used sewing thread to hold the gasket in place in a few spots.

[Dr_Snooz]

Yeah, that's about what I remember too. Fel-Pro is a good brand and the manual does call for supplemental RTV to be used in all those corners.

[Sandwich]

yeh bit of an update, old oil pan says NO

I'm certain I got all 18 nuts & bolts off, tranny dust plate off too, smacked all over (except tranny side ofc) with mallet, shoved a screwdriver in the filler and yanked a load & started prying the seal from the pan. No luck though!

Bought some gasket remover spray will let you know how I get on.

The seal fit got me to buy some Hondabond (semi-dry not high temp) too so hopefully sorted when it all arrives.

[Oldblueaccord]

Block of wood and a big hammer. Since your not using it again whale away.

[Oldblueaccord]

So you blast that thing off there or what?

[Sandwich]

Ok so, took me a bit of time, working in and out of free time and around the rain, working outside isnt the most fun lol.

Oil pan really wouldn't budge after a lot of smacking. The gasket remover worked wonders, sprayed it all round the front side of the gasket (backside hard to access) and slowly pryed a flathead in between oil pan and gasket, avoiding block, took quite a few applications but soon was able to get whole front off, not end of story though... levering a screwdriver in drain hole couldnt do it, ended up jamming the prying end of hammer in the front side and levered it off, didnt care for the pan since im replacing it. Warning on shoving a screwdriver in the drain plug, I bent my oil screen, a part which is deep in the pan and feeds the oil pump. This was a good method I followed initially. Oil Pan Gasket Replacement Outline

Since then I havent put it back on, been messing around with those horrid old coolant hoses connected to the oil filter base. Got that back on today, is horrid to remove with the cooler attached to it. The spark plug style lead for the oil pressure sender was rock solid old rubber so took a bit of prying. Base itself has bottom two bolts blocked by the cooler bit, need the perfect sized wrench, also took removal of the alternator bottom bracket, next was getting through the 32 year old hose which took a big yank.

Was gonna get a o-ring style new gasket for the base... out of stock, cant seem to find it anywhere UK or with decent shipping so... I made my own. Bought an o-ring splicing kit, do recommend its a great bit of kit. These are the results: Shared album - theo jones - Google Photos

The kit itself comes with 2m of about 10-15 different diameter nitrile rubber lengths that can be spliced together with ease. The custom shape that I did, did take a few tries though.

Its good timing since I dont think I could have done this with the PCV breather hose in the way, the hose was shot and doubt it would have lasted long. Lets see if the custom o-ring holds up...

Now to fit the new oil pan. Spending so long under the car, scary to see all the jobs that will need doing on brakes and suspension, lots of old rubber haha!

[Sandwich]

Gonna replace the old rusty bolts on the pan, anyone know if the thread opens on the top side of the block? The original bolts are 14-16mm ish, I got 20mm or 12mm which I dont think is enough, ideally I could fit 20mm that would peak through the top a bit.

Cheers!