Need a 5th Gear

[Dr_Snooz]

My Red Car threw its 5th gear last week. Obviously there aren't any available anywhere. Does anyone have a gear or interchange info or something? It makes me sad when the Red Car is sad.

[conozo]

I'll keep an eye out for one.

I am curious did your gear go out because of low fluid?

[ShiRen]

I know you also had the crunch when entering 5th... dont make me nervous

[Dr_Snooz]

I'll keep an eye out for one.

I am curious did your gear go out because of low fluid?

I appreciate it. Thank you.

I about low fluid too. I'm pretty sure it wasn't low though. It didn't leak and l checked the level only a few weeks ago.

You may remember my terrible travails getting my MT swap done. The first MT was a scrapper from the junkyard that l lovingly cleaned and rebuilt. It repaid my kindness by blowing up within 300 miles. I think the shafts were bent. I then went through another 5 or so scrappers looking for something worth rebuilding. Sadly, it was all garbage. l finally bought this one from mantrans.com. It worked well when I got it, but has developed a lot of problems in the 60k miles since. Fifth gear has gone out, obviously, but first gear takes some effort to get into sometimes and the gear mesh is all pretty sloppy. There's some weirdness to the clutch operation that has me spooked too. It's like the engagement point keeps moving around. Not sure what's going on there.

Still, I don't blame mantrans. It's a wonder they were able to provide me a working trans at all. I know that the core I sent them was an unsalvageable mess of broken gears and shafts.

Aren't MT's supposed to be tougher than AT's?

I know you also had the crunch when entering 5th... dont make me nervous

Funny thing, the crunch went away the week before this happened. I'll just say that if you start hearing what sounds like an alternator whine, you have about 50 miles left.

[ShiRen]

I keep telling myself Ill pop the 5th gear cover off one day and give it a health check

[Oldblueaccord]

Usually you can take out the 5th clusters and still drive the car I believe. Ole 4 speed should be good for about 115 mph.

[conozo]

I've been think of how this can happen. I'm starting to think that your tranny was not assembled correctly from mantrans. There are a few parts that you can actually put in the wrong way. It will work but it allows the shafts to not engage all the way.

I'm partially saying this because when my brother in law rebuilt the tranny, this happened. It might have been as simple as when he put the case on the workbench he didn't realize that the input shaft sticks out further than the case

[Oldblueaccord]

I've been think of how this can happen. I'm starting to think that your tranny was not assembled correctly from mantrans. There are a few parts that you can actually put in the wrong way. It will work but it allows the shafts to not engage all the way.

I'm partially saying this because when my brother in law rebuilt the tranny, this happened. It might have been as simple as when he put the case on the workbench he didn't realize that the input shaft sticks out further than the case

Diving habits also play a part. Lugging the car under 45 mph in 5th killed all those early trans the OD gear was small and cant handle the torque. All the makes in the 80's had this problem.

I dont use 5th under 50 mph in my car and esp up long hills. If your right foot is to the floor in 5th you need to be in 4th your just burning gas and straining you drive train.

Even in my Camaro where the gearing is a little weird and 5th is pretty short gear im in 4th alot in city driving and Im never in 6th,hell Id have to look at the shifter to see where 6th is.

[ShiRen]

I disassembled my trans before it started doing it... Don't think I reassembled it wrong, the only thing I know I did wrong was fight the case on it instead of reading the part in the manual that says to put it in 3rd... yeah that helps a lot.

[bscanlan]

Wow Snooz! I just searched “gear swap” to see what my 5th gear options were. I got a scrapper for my hatch project, and the trans shop who was going over it (I never cracked it open) said 5th was pretty bad. I’d be willing to find something else that works, but in my searches I have not seen this 5th as being used in other transmissions. Has anyone heard of someone doing something different, rather than trying to find an original 5th?

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm hoping someone can provide that answer. It sucks that the entire gear fails and not some replaceable part like a syncro or bearing. Then again, I'm glad it isn't the mainshaft that fails.

[Oldblueaccord]

I'm hoping someone can provide that answer. It sucks that the entire gear fails and not some replaceable part like a syncro or bearing. Then again, I'm glad it isn't the mainshaft that fails.

You dont think some guy put veggie oil in it as a test years ago....asking for a friend.

[Dr_Snooz]

[Dr_Snooz]

I need to inspect that 5th gear though. If it's no good, then I can throw that trans in the trash and go buy a salvage S-Type.

[conozo]

Would you inspect that 5th gear already! Your killin' me smalls!

[conozo]

by the way Azian Garage mentions another 5th gear probably from the prelude will swap over. He mentions it in one of these videos.

A20 Transmission Disassembly Part 1 of 2 - YouTube

A20 Transmission Assembly Part 2 of 2 - YouTube

[Oldblueaccord]

I probably should look at mine too.

I wonder what the cost be to remake the gears?

[stat1K]

So take this with a grain of salt but one of you could order this from amazon and see if it's the right part, Amazon.com: Genuine Honda 23461-PC8-J21 Countershaft Gear, Fifth: Automotive

I found the part number from the diagram and searched it in google, https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuin...1-pc8-j21.html

might be worth a try.

[Dr_Snooz]

Would you inspect that 5th gear already! Your killin' me smalls!

I'm sorry! Buckle up 'cause here come the pics.

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Freaking Microsoft! Their OneDrive won't generate the embed code right now for some stupid reason. My kingdom for a reliable photo hoster!!!! This is what I get for talking up OneDrive in that other thread.

I'll post them later in my build thread "My Hoopty." For now, just know that I cracked the trans open last night and it's beautiful inside. Super clean and lots of life left in it at only 168k miles. Fifth gear is dreamy. BOTH fifth gears (there are 2 apparently) are dreamy, though I can see the weakness in how the splines mate. Kinda rounded and mushy. If you're heavy on the gas in 5th gear, I guess you can wear them off. Ugh. What an unfortunate design flaw. I'm tempted simply to drop this thing in without a rebuild but I probably won't. It's worth replacing the syncros at least.

I really want to crack open the ManTrans unit also and see what kind of job they did. As I've said before, I was just glad to have a working trans, but it still feels like I should have got more then 60k miles out of it.

I'm headed to the trans shop Friday. I have to pre-pay for the rebuild kit because they have to build it out of individual parts. No one makes a kit anymore, I guess.

So take this with a grain of salt but one of you could order this from amazon and see if it's the right part, Amazon.com: Genuine Honda 23461-PC8-J21 Countershaft Gear, Fifth: Automotive

I found the part number from the diagram and searched it in google, 23461-PC8-J21 - Genuine Honda Gear, Countershaft Fifth

might be worth a try.

Does it give anyone else the creeps that there aren't any photos of the actual item?

[Oldblueaccord]

yur /fired

[Havoc_Wolfy]

got exactly what you need right here. "transmission parts warehouse" stocks it. i recently ordered several parts from them for my rebuild.

heres the link to the 5th gear assembly. HONDA A2 & ACURA CG TRANSMISSION 5TH GEAR KIT 36T/25T FITS '''85-'''89 (HON-5) - Transmission Parts Distributors

they do stock all the other parts needed for rebuilding. in both a kit and separately

[stat1K]

82 isn't bad for the set like that either. nice find!

oh and snooz, i've bought various seals i couldn't get from the dealer from amazon with just the part number and both the front main and rear main i've ordered for my 05 were the correct part.

[Oldblueaccord]

got exactly what you need right here. "transmission parts warehouse" stocks it. i recently ordered several parts from them for my rebuild.

heres the link to the 5th gear assembly. HONDA A2 & ACURA CG TRANSMISSION 5TH GEAR KIT 36T/25T FITS '''85-'''89 (HON-5) - Transmission Parts Distributors

they do stock all the other parts needed for rebuilding. in both a kit and separately

Thats a great find!

Did you order a 5th gear set from them I am wondering how well its made. Those bearings they show in there rebuild kits are very poorly made Chinese bearings. I just got done throwing out a boat load of NTN bearings at work.

[Dr_Snooz]

$82 for TWO working transmissions??? So I can have a spare on-hand. Hmmmm...

[Dr_Snooz]

Okay, I promised pics, and by gosh, you're gonna get pics!



Donor trans leaking vital fluids.




Cover off.




Looks clean.







Not new gears, but still lots of life left. I suspect this trans will have a lot less herky-jerky than the one I'm driving.










I did some reading around the forum to see if anyone could say what exactly fails on these 5th gears. I guess what happens is that the splines inside the gear shear off. I didn't find any pics, but I'll get some if I have the presence of mind to take them. You can kinda see the spline mating in these photos. It's certainly not confidence inspiring.