vacuum secondry help ????

[ACCORD EX]

hello guys !
i really need the help of carb experts about my secondry vacuum !
i posted previously in another thread that my car kicks in ( second barell as i guess ) at different rpms through the last week from 2000 > 3000 rpm ! yesterday it was 2200 rpm today it's 2750 ??
anyway i checked the distributer my mark didn't change ( so it's not rotating by it self !
so now i am left with one option ! secondry barell !
i ran the car ( hot ) and looked at the second barel and asked a friend to rev to 3500 rpm , the barell didn't open the secondry diaphram didn't engage ?? the only change i could see that the primary venturi sprayed fuel ! ??
i tested the car and it's still @ 2750 rpm ???
so does the vacuum secondry engage @ car standing ? or the car should be driving ??

well i have an A20A2 engine similar vacuum with some changes !
here is the diagram of it below !
# 28 > vacuum secondry diaphram
# 17 > related

# 2 & # 25 advance diaphram ( distributer )

so heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp guys !

[shepherd79]

so what you are saying is that it won't even move even if you rev the engine?
that is weird.
try this. diconnect the line 28 from the carb and secondary diaphram, and plug it. now connect the diaphram directry to the carb. i don't know if this would help or not. but i want to see if the secondary opens like that.

[A20A1]

It should open like that... I suppose if the thermovalve was stuck open you could be bleeding off all you venturi vacuum.

[DanG86LX]

Just disconnect the line to sec diaphragm (and plug it). Now sec barrel is disabled. Does it make a diff?

Ur test "3500rpm @ car standing" may not open secondary cuz primary is not opened enough, remember there is a mechanical interlock between the two! Engine should be under load..

[ACCORD EX]

that what i was thinking of it dang !
well i 'll try that ! ( plugging it ! ) thanx
thanx for now !


MIKE

[ACCORD EX]

could you guys tell me if line 2 and 25 to the advamce diaphram should have vacuum ( suck or blow ) and when does that happen ! ?

thank you very much guys !

MIKE

[mindlos]

# 2 is the normal advance and that should always have a vacuum signal. The amount of advance depends on manifold vacuum, which depends on rpms and throttle.

# 25 is the cold advance. It should only have a vacuum signal when the coolant temp is below 50* C/ 122* F. When the engine is warmed up there should be no vacuum.

[POS carb]

your secondary isn't going to open up because you need to open the throttle a lot more and if the car is in park/neutral it would rev too much. Pull off the vacuum line and apply vacuum to the opener and (with the car off) open the throttle all the way. It should open when vacuum is applied (it should also hold it, make sure it's not "T'd" off to any other lines (the #17 line on US models I think)

[ACCORD EX]

well i 'll check all of them ! and will be back !

thanx guys !

[ACCORD EX]

man now i am really in trouble !
i took the line on the secondry diaphram ( 28 ) and pluged it and tested road tested the car ! it does the kick !!!!!!!!!!!!!
but it lost some performance ! so may be teh kick is the ignition advance and not the secondry !

and POS CARB how do i apply vacuum ?

anyway i ve seen this diagram ( from A20A1 Mike 's page ) and he said i 'll get more responsive vacuum secondy if i do it this way ( in the pic below )

MIKE

[POS carb]

yes that's how mine was before I did the manual secondary, it' show it should be for best performance. To "apply vacuum" is nothing complex, just suck on the damn hose lol or do it the right way and get a hand vacuum pump.

[ACCORD EX]

i think i am gonna connect teh diaphragm directly to the carb as shown above and see what happens !
any disadvantages from running like that ! will th secondry open when it should be or it will always be open !

thanx a lot guys !

MIKE

[DanG86LX]

ACCORD EX>>> ..connect teh diaphragm directly to the carb as shown above.. any disadvantages from running like that ?
Nope, basically u eliminate that bleeding thermovalve. The thermovalve bleeds off secondary vacuum when engine cold effectively disabling it.

Would u elaborate how ur car kicks in? Is this like when cruising on a road ~ 2500rpm and with a minute push on gas rpms jumps ~ 2800? And the reverse happen when u ease the gas 2800 -> 2500..

[ACCORD EX]

[EDIT]

[ACCORD EX]

i 'll try connecting it like that !

about the kick in > when i am accelerating @ 2500 i get a kick in ( Like pressing a NOS button ) the rpm rises quieker but don't jump ! ( and doesn't stop @ 2800 rpm )
when i ease the gas i don't feel a thing !
BTW i don't feel that in a certain range ! BUT when passing a certain RPM ! ( which is basically my problem , changes every couple of days ! )

thanx Dan !

MIKE

[ACCORD EX]

well i didn't get the chance to try it out before !
so here it is !

the car @ WOT the secondry barell opens ( car is standing )

disabled the secondry ! ( it doesn't open )

did A20A1's trick ( connecting teh diaphram directly to carb ) secondry opens @ WOT ( car is standing )

while running ! NO DIFFERENCE ON ALL THE THREE CASES !?? :gay:

still get the kick at 2000 rpm now !
when i disable the secondry i got the kick but i lost power @ WOT !

so what really makes that kick that i had before at 3K rpm and now is changing ! ??

MIKE

[POS carb]

this would suggest something more like somethihn a loose distributer advance

[ACCORD EX]

and how do i fix that !?

thanx !

MIKE

[mindlos]

no fixin yet...disconnect the #2 and #25 from the advance and plug them. See if you still get the kick.... the more involved and unsuitable way would be to remove the advance diagphram and see what happens...

like I said, its not an answer....

[ACCORD EX]

if i plug those hoses ! where would the kick come from ?
anyway i 'll try it out !



MIKE

[ACCORD EX]

well i checked them out and plugged them ! damn , the car really lost performance and no kick ! ??

MIKE

[Dutchboy]

On sort of the same note.....i just hooked my secondary back up to vacuum instead of manual since it was really killing my performance.....I now have more power again and its alot smoother action instead of the nose dive i was having....

But I have a question on the Advance unit....should both ports on the diaphram hold vacuum>>>??????????

Only one of mine is holding vacuum .. the other leaks away fairly quickly and i tested another at the junk and it did the same...

So are they supposed to do this or is it broken>?

Thanks
BEn

[mindlos]

I'm not sure what you mean by hold vacuum. Are you talking about the ports on the vacuum advance or the lines to the advance? Anyways, as far as the lines to the advance, this is when they are suppossed to have vacuum...

Originally posted by mindlos
# 2 is the normal advance and that should always have a vacuum signal. The amount of advance depends on manifold vacuum, which depends on rpms and throttle.

# 25 is the cold advance. It should only have a vacuum signal when the coolant temp is below 50* C/ 122* F. When the engine is warmed up there should be no vacuum.

[Dutchboy]

Actually i meant the diaphraam itself...

the #25 port holds vacuum when using the vacuum pump but the #2 port doesnt...

So should the #2 port on the diaphram hold vacuum when using a vacuum gauge ???

I never tested the diaprham when the arm was disconected from the inside of the distributor but i thought that since the other one i tried too didnt hold vacuum in that port that its supposed to leak away and that the constant vacuum from the car would keep it pulling and advancing like its supposed OR its acting like a vacuum leak and not advancing right and thats why i got the constant miss..

well thanks for the info Mindlos.....ill have to see what sort of vacuum signal #25 is getting too.....I sure wish I could cure the case of the misses on my car....its really annoying to not having my car running perfect..

[mindlos]

this should give you an idea (looks like you may have a bad diagphram Dutchboy):