engine swaps are a waste of time and $

[guaynabo89]

I've come to the conclusion that one of the major drawbacks with the a20 is lack of tuneabillity. If someone has the knowhow to get a stand alone efi system and tune it correctly then the a20 has alot of potential.

Also if your going to go n/a with the a20 anything less than an 11 to 1 comp ratio won't cut it. If I could get a stand alone efi sys tem I'd swap in some hifher comp pistons real quick ( I have 10 to 1 now)

88llxi68 You really chopped my name man.:lol



This is a really good topic keep the replies coming.

[Inabj2]

I dont know. I have a fetish of working with the engine that the car came with. I mean A supra that does 8 second quarter miles with a super tuned but original engine that it came from the dealer with. turns me on a lot more then the Funny Car That was molded in the shape of a mustang with some strange concoction V8 that was designed for the event. Even tho the V8 runs the quarter in 4 seconds. Why? The "Mustang" Never camed outta the dealer. The supra did.

Well I feel the same way for the engine. I mean i want to be more on the original side. Thats why im routing for the A20. 250 hp with a turbo A 20 aint bad. I originally wanted 350 hp. But I dont see any B16s running that. If anyone runs 350 hp outta a 3 gee id be very interested in knowing how that was pulled that off.

[3_GENCYCO]

:pimp: gotta go with funstick on this one. a20a's are gr8:super:

[pric]

Where did you get your pistons ( 10:1 comp ratio) from and how much?

[guaynabo89]

Wiseco- 10 to 1 , 40 over for $350

[Sean]

ok as for getting larger valves in the head. not really a tough challenge. remachine the guide over a few thousands of and inch and now you have room. as for the exhaust valve don;t think its a handicap its actully pretty efficent. as so what its a single cam that means less friction that a dual overhead cam. the a20a cam has a very large basecircle allowing it to be reground pretty radically. i am trying to get some cam blanks very doubtful i can but i will look nonethless. there are alot of parts out there they can be modified to work just no one has just yet so i geuss i will be the first. i am sick of the swaping topics its really to exspnsive.
the a20a can perform and the stock tranny can handle some abuse. lets try to make the a20a go insdtead of giving up on it if we make a large stand at a import drag event and that will get attention. we need to create a market then manufacturers will come to us. also we really need to get the membership up and prove that the accord can be pumped up alot. some much potential.

[TeKKnoTeKK]

right on funstick, I'm with ya bud

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by funstick
ok as for getting larger valves in the head. not really a tough challenge. remachine the guide over a few thousands of and inch and now you have room. as for the exhaust valve don;t think its a handicap its actully pretty efficent. as so what its a single cam that means less friction that a dual overhead cam. the a20a cam has a very large basecircle allowing it to be reground pretty radically. i am trying to get some cam blanks very doubtful i can but i will look nonethless. there are alot of parts out there they can be modified to work just no one has just yet so i geuss i will be the first. i am sick of the swaping topics its really to exspnsive.
the a20a can perform and the stock tranny can handle some abuse. lets try to make the a20a go insdtead of giving up on it if we make a large stand at a import drag event and that will get attention. we need to create a market then manufacturers will come to us. also we really need to get the membership up and prove that the accord can be pumped up alot. some much potential.

I like your motivation on keeping the A20 alive to the world of performance manufactures, that right there i'm all the way with you! I think more aftermarket support would be great for our engines. It can wake up a hole new world.

One of the disadvatages that these motors have over B series, is R&D.
B series have been the #1 choice for 99.9% of aftermarket performance industries (why?). Do you know how many shops have performed everything and anything possible on these engines? ALOT of time, tunning, development & reaserch have been performed in the "racing world" and has proven to be one of the BEST and most reliable engines out there!

One of the key factors that convinced me in getting this "expensive" swap done, was RELIABILITY! I will have great power without modding anything! Completely stock!
As I start modding my engine, I will always be 1 step ahead of you in "reliability" I won't have to worry about the additional wear & tear due to performance mods. Won't have to worry about breaking down and or fixing engine parts due to over stressing the motor with aftermarket components just to get the additional power.

If you don't mind working and tuning a motor verry freakwently, then an engine swap might not be for you. But if you like working on engines but can't afford to work on them 24/7 then a better more reliable engine might be a good idea.

The more performance you push an engine to produce, the more wear and tear it will create (that is a general rule) known as "take some, loose some"! wich in return you will have a shorter life span on your engine. Unless you start with a powerfull engine to begin with!

Let this be one of the key factors to your decission of an engine swap.

Oooff! I don't usually type this much sorry

[A20A1]

Holy Horsepower Batman!! $350 for the bore and larger pistons

[3_GENCYCO]

squeez all the hp's out of that thing you can. i'm with you. i just purchased a motor for building up. you are motivational.

[Vanilla Sky]

i'm goin for a JDM H22... why not go with the best??? 220 horses, that almost beats anything the A20 can do... and that's with a bone stock engine

Derick

[guaynabo89]

I think you guys should put up some prices for what would make an a20 go. That way you can compare it with the price of a swap.


The way I see it it would probably be around $3,000 for a good head job,(doen't sound to nice:lol ) and all the possible bolt ons you can trhow ar it.

This includes i/h/e, t.b., pulleys, clutch, ignition, coil, regulator and a couple more misc things.

Take into consideration that this is without rebuilding the block! If your block insn't up to spec and you have to rebuild it will run you about 800 for a stock rebuild. More with pistons, rods and such.

Even with all this I think you will only get about 130 at the wheels.

[Sean]

well ive already had sevral cammed up a20a and my new idea is to improve the overall flow of air into the engine. i am going to build a shorter intake work on intake valve flow and rework the ports. the biggest issue with making the intake ports flow more air is the valve angle in relation to the piston and the low entrance for the intake port. it has crossed my mind sevral time to see if there were a way to move the port opening up the head to improve the intake port angle in relation to the valve.

as it is now the short side radious is a 90 dgree turn and for reall perfomance it needs to be more like 60 degrees to get the kind of low lift airflow needed for lots of TQ. so while you are planning swaps i am going to figure out a way to improve this head and when i do things are gonna change. the b16a and most of the other honda engines all have this layout with the sharp hard turn to the intake valve and it needs to be adressed.

as for the a20a taking power it can as long as you don't have detonation but the other honda motors are just a weak in this area as well. stock pistons are a sore spot but as far as i know the a20a bottom end is signifacntly stronger. see ya later.

[3rd GEN]

yup.. I gotta be on the original side too. I am stickin with my A20..

I mean, my baby is still young.. she's only got 169,00, km's... for an 87 thats nothin!!!

but I also agree.. the a20 has some serious potential..strictly because it already has that torque advantage over the b16 and b18s...if ya just boost the horses... it's all in the torque... thats where you get your power from..not only that.. but it's also a lrger engine compaired to the 1.6L b16..

but still.. even doing up the a20 to it's max..will still be pretty damn quick...enough to start turning heads...

enough to blow away any other 3rd gen stock out there..or some others such as 3rd gen ludes, civics ( which I can already beat)...

so you see.... they still have some great potential... they just need more aftermarket support..

[damackz]

B16a all tha way gots to agree with OSS on this one. A b16a swap will cost roughly 3 geez (haha 3geez) and u will have 160hp stock, if u can get that with an A20 all tha power to u. With tha b series u got unlimited potential to go further with forced induction and nitrous. Tha a20 will need a serious rebuild to get it done. When i do or if i do tha b16 swap i am going to rebuild tha motor with JE pistons, Crower Cams, Bore and stroke the engine to 1.8 displacement i mean therez so many things u can do. :pimp: whatever u do tho u gotta spend alot of $$$ and sometimes its just better to buy a faster car

[YK86]

I respect both options. I would rather keep the A20 just because I would like to see how far you can take it (especially N/A) but a swap is sweet too. And about buying a faster car, since most of us have "mod disease", we will always want to make a car faster and look better no matter how new or fast it is. LOL

[Jims 86LXI HB]

the a20 has some serious potential..strictly because it already has that torque advantage over the b16 and b18s.

Well hopefully as modding the a20 moves forward. We have the knowhow to maintain it's lowend torque and not end up creating a engine that has the same lowend weakness as the b16. Intake flow increases usually lend themselves to promoting power increases at the higher end at the expence of the low end. Which is why you see things like the vtecs and dual stage intake manifolds.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Buiding the A20 can be fun, but NOT for the street if your planing on going crazy!

I had hopes on my stock motor as well back in the days.

I had:

JG Throttle Body
JG Radical Cam
Ported & Polished Head
Headers
Intake
Exaust
External Coil Blaster
MSD
External Fuel pump
External Fuel regulator
Centerforce Clutch w/ pressure plate
NGK wires & Plugs
Nitrous (50 shot)

So as you can see, I had my fun with the A20 as well! One thing I found out was that once the A20 was modified, the engine had such a radical idle that I couldn't stand it!
I like a mild engine good enough for the street and powerfull enough for the track, that's where the B16 came into play Nice, smooth idle and lots of punch!

Oh! lets not forget the transmission (our trannies suck) as soon as you "up" the power, the trannies take a shit! That is what caused my hole swap to begin. My tranny took a dump and I had the B16 sitting in my garage looking at me saying "yeah baby" "its my turn now" "look my tranny is good"

[guaynabo89]

Originally posted by OldSchoolSwap
Buiding the A20 can be fun, but NOT for the street if your planing on going crazy!

I had hopes on my stock motor as well back in the days.

I had:

JG Throttle Body
JG Radical Cam
Ported & Polished Head
Headers
Intake
Exaust
External Coil Blaster
MSD
External Fuel pump
External Fuel regulator
Centerforce Clutch w/ pressure plate
NGK wires & Plugs
Nitrous (50 shot)

So as you can see, I had my fun with the A20 as well! One thing I found out was that once the A20 was modified, the engine had such a radical idle that I couldn't stand it!
I like a mild engine good enough for the street and powerfull enough for the track, that's where the B16 came into play Nice, smooth idle and lots of punch!

Oh! lets not forget the transmission (our trannies suck) as soon as you "up" the power, the trannies take a shit! That is what caused my hole swap to begin. My tranny took a dump and I had the B16 sitting in my garage looking at me saying "yeah baby" "its my turn now" "look my tranny is good"

Hey Oldschool:

What happened to the cam still got it?

Remember any of the specs for it?

Was it premade or did you have them grind one for you?

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by guaynabo89



Hey Oldschool:

What happened to the cam still got it?

Remember any of the specs for it?

Was it premade or did you have them grind one for you?

Sold it a while ago. It was a swap (premade) they sent the biggest wildest cam for my engine specs and i had to send in my core.

[guaynabo89]

How did your car idle when you had it in?

Did you have to raise the idle speed at all?

Did you have any problems with stalling?

How much of an increase in hp was it and how did it perform?

[3rd GEN]

ya... I could go either way... like I wanna build up my A20 and see what it's got... and at the same time.. i wanna do a swap..

like a b16, b18 or maybe an h22..

but off course.. that will cost the $$$

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by guaynabo89
How did your car idle when you had it in?

Did you have to raise the idle speed at all?

Did you have any problems with stalling?

How much of an increase in hp was it and how did it perform?

The idle was always a headache and it would stall several times. The performance gain was O.K. but not worth it for the trouble.

[YK86]

Wasn't the cam the cause of the idling problem? Maybe if it was toned down a tiny bit, it would have been a better daily driver?? Just curious because I remember Geoff at Colt Cams saying people ask for the wildest cam, then complain it idles funny and doesn't pass emissions testing.

[OldSchoolSwap]

Originally posted by YK86
Wasn't the cam the cause of the idling problem? Maybe if it was toned down a tiny bit, it would have been a better daily driver?? Just curious because I remember Geoff at Colt Cams saying people ask for the wildest cam, then complain it idles funny and doesn't pass emissions testing.

Yes. The Cam was the one responsible for the rough idle I hated that cam with all my heart! It performed good but it will always either over rev or under rev to the point that it would stall. I adjusted the valves and idle screw multiple times and it would barely fell better. While I was still tuning it (within a few weeks) my tranny took a dump and that's when the SWAP plans came into play.