engine swaps are a waste of time and $

[Sean]

the average swap costs $5000 in a typical honda by the time you get it sorted. then the perfomance end sux as well i mean yr talking what a b16 with around 100lbs of tq why bother???

look there are 2 good options and they booth cost the same but at least you can get axles anywhere. you can force the air in via supercharger of turbo or beef up the a20a it responds to most mods like ported headsand will cost much less to keep alive than a high strung b16 that needs customs axles.

swaps suck. either get a reality smack or give up. no support hardware makes for a very difficult time. as siad before

all engines like air. so improve thsi in one of 2 ways

SHOVE IT IN WITH A BLOWER TURBO NO2 or some other means.

or CAM, COMPRESION,INTAKE, HEAD PORTING AND EXHUAST. stop wasting yr time on other engines they are to large don;t fit well and ruin the geometery and balcne of yr vehicle.

see ya later.

[carotman]

I like my A20A alright...

I raced with a B18A Integra today and we were quite close to each other.... and I got an A20A1

[OldSchoolSwap]

I have to object on your "theory"!

First of all, as soon as I got my swap done without tuning or anything, I went to the track to check on my improvments. I ran 16's!! Came back home, did a nice tune up and adjusted a few things here and there and took it back to the track a few weeks later.... I ran 15's.
No improvments huh!?!?!
When was the last time you saw a stock 3rd gen pulling 15's with a stock motor?

When I was bone stock I was pulling freaking 17's!

Then I added N2O (only 60 shot) and I dropped to high 13's.

Then if I wanted to run a better time, all I had to do then was take it to the dyno, up the Nitrous shot to about 80, tune it a bit and that's it! No internal mods would be needed! Now do you think a 3rd gen accord motor will take 80 shot stock? The answer is NO!

Not to mention all the aftermartket support the B16A has. The B16 has no limit as apposed to the A20. There's only so much power you can get out of it, even if you turbo it you will never have the tunability of a B16 or B18.

Sorry if I got a little carried away, I just didn't understand the hole negative conlution you had and I also need therapy :bh:

[HondaSi88]

a20 vs b16 round 1............waiting for more comments!!!! wheres the guy with the h22 swap? I wanna hear his point!

[Jerren]

what exactly is cam compression or head porting. and what kind of performance gain will i recieve? and I do know you probably know what you are talking about. i do believe you are the one who has a turbo installed in your car. right?

[Sean]

ok oldschoolswap its on i can build a a20a to run 14's without a turbo and still drive it everyday for half of what yr efi cost and have more torque to boot ??? up for the challenge i have a dx thats all stock just waiting for me to find and exscuse to excresise some know how. god i am a horriable speller
LOL. anyways yeah i can do it for less than 3000 and still have most of the engine be stock as for NO2 won;t need it. i gonna do it all motor.

[Jerren]

wth? so tell us!!! how will you do that?

[88LXi68]

Guyanaboy emailed me what he did to his car and he did A LOT. he said he spent around 5k and he dynoed 140 to wheels with a stock cam and cam gear. he also said if he could do it again he would just do a swap. The things your doing to the A20 are building the internals where as that B16 has stock internals! Sorry but I think it is comparing apples and oranges.

[Sean]

my plan revolves around stock pistons and inmproving the head. gonna work on cam and airflow with a new efi computer. also got a short ram intake on the drawing board i gonna at least try it. im sure the bottom end is gonna suck under 3000rpm but i can get it there. the stock pistons are plenty strong until they detonation get to them.


my plan of attack.


work on head flow i have a tig welder at my disposale now so i can change the port alot. also i have plans for larger valves.


gonna work on cam specs with my local cam grinder try a few and see what works best.

as for the short block pretty much stock just gonna balance everything for good measure and replace the pistons with new stock ones.the only real beffing up to be done is replacing the rod bolts with some good arp units.

might be bringing compresion up to around 11.5:1 to get more TQ out of the engine. the only real downside is that the combustion chanber sahpe is very ineeficent. so detonation could be a problem but the aluminum head with its superb heat rejection and some careful programming it should be aviodable.

will definately get the HP i want and i might even be able to get more TQ down low than i think. the a20a is one of the longest stroke motors hondas built and with a better head it could run with the vtecs no problem.

se ya later is oldschool up for the challenge ???

[A20A1]

Bigger vlaves sounds nice... would the length of the valve stems be the same???

How much would it cost to get bigger valves fitted if I sent a head in (minus the rocker assembly and cam)

[RobT5580]

I have been stuck on what to do and i would probably do a B16 or bigger swap if this deal doesnt close soon on a B20A. I am against the A20A because of limited parts and i would say weak transmissions. Although if you have money they can be well improved buy my theory is that i can get parts easily for a B16A and have stock LSD. I do however like the B20A a lot but again limited parts availability but it has relatively high torque and a decent starting hp. It can be a pain having everything custom made and become expensive fast. I do think the A20A can be built to be strong as Justin has proved and i know Funstick knows his stuff but it comes down to your pocket and resources...

[flyngtomato]

why not buy an import 3G with a B20a already in it lol i just picked a stock car up complete for $500 the doors r a bit rusty and it has no bodykit but its gunna be gr8 when its done the B20a in the 3Gs isnt the VTEC though

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Posts like this, should draw a extra dose of caution from all readers. Just be carefull that you don't fall victim to a self promotion that may not benefit from telling you all the facts. Or one that plays the music they think you wanna hear

[Justanothermike]

This engine in a gutted out hatch at max tune should be worth some 14 second passes

[CARBurn]

Gotta agree with Funstick. The A20 has some good potential even though it doesn't have the aftermarket support like the b16. You just need the time and money to put into a project like that, but that is with any engine you have.

[3rd GEN]

yup.. I have also been concidering tuning up my a20.. only thing is.. mine is carb.. so i don't know in the end how much power I am gonna get outa carb.. I ultimately wanna do an efi swap... but I am still contiplating

[OldSchoolSwap]

Here's the main point and what i'm trying to get accross. Everything else will always have its "if's" and "but's"

A stock B16A 160 HP 111 tq psi (1.6 DOHC 16 Valve) will always have more power than a Stock A20 (2.0 SOHC 12 Valve) ecxept torque, a few more psi on the A20 side or about the same.

Head to head
Stock on stock
Same body and wait
The B16 will take it

If you start Striping interior parts and or moding the engine, then that's a whole diffrent world.
Even then, the B16 will be a much better foundation and a start for hardcore builders. As apposed to the A20 where you will run out of mods to do and the B16 will keep "going" and "going" and "going"
To me, running 13's on a full interior 4dr Grand'ma 3rd gen is pretty darn impressive.

As JustAnotherMike stated on his post with the A20 "if that engine is slaped in a hatch and strip the interior" it should run 14's. Again, this is considered major moding of a car.
If I had my engine (B16) in Justin's ride, striped and the hole 9, how much faster do you think I would be able to run?

You guys dig what I'm trying to say?

It all begines with your goals. Where would you like to go tomorrow? light speed or Blitz speed? Both sound fast don't they? But one should be faster than the other.

One engine will always take more stress and power adders than the other... You make the choice of what road to pick.
I know i'm in for the long run! And I was forced to start is all over.

Nuff said!

[CARBurn]

Originally posted by 3rd GEN
yup.. I have also been concidering tuning up my a20.. only thing is.. mine is carb.. so i don't know in the end how much power I am gonna get outa carb.. I ultimately wanna do an efi swap... but I am still contiplating

Start with a weber carb, I got one any you will definitely see a power increase, greatly improve torque. Then do the other work, P&P head, headers, etc.

[Justanothermike]

well the difference between th 14 second A20 and the B16 is $$$$$$$$$. about $1500 in the A20 and about $3000 in a B16 swap

[carotman]

Hey, the B16A swap isn't free.... that costs money. Of course you are left with a stock engine but that swap costs money...


Oh.. and how are you going to put bigger valves in the A20A... those are pretty tigh fitted there!!!

[Lockleaf]

ok so we all agree that the A20A has some good potential. But if you do all of the stuff that funstick listed, then you can't go any farther, at least Naturally aspirated. But what if I take that B16, do the same mods, and then tag on a couple of the super lightweight components that have been developed. I did just as much work plus a couple of bolt ons and again the B16 leads. Or what about an H22. They come stock 195 horse and about 165 lbs. torque. Then I take that and do the same mods, the same lightweight components for the engine. There is no way an A20A can match that power OR torque. Your point hasn't made anyone believe that swapping is stupid. It's just proved that the A20A has some really good untapped potential in it. But once it's been pushed to the max, it's to the max. Then you need a different engine, one with a higher max, to keep going if you want to stay NA. Then comes the swap. The power to be dredged out of the A20A is enough for some of us. And add to just the sense of accomplishment for dropping a 2.2 liter engine into a compartment originally built for a 1.6 liter. A good part of the reason I want to swap in an H22 is simply for the ability to say "I made this." I agree, you can take the A20A far, but everything shows, you can take a different engine farther. Thank you and goodnight. Lockleaf

[PhydeauX]

Well here is the real question, do you guys (mike, funstick) think you can build an A20 that will perform on par with a stock b16 in a gen3 for the same or less then the cost of a swap? Just to make it fun, can you keep the motor smog legal? I know you say the b16 can keep going and going as far as hp oss, but lets keep this all motor. You wont get much more then 200hp out of a b16 na, do you guys think you can top that with an all out a20? I'm not going to knock swaping, a b16 in a gen3 will smoke me right now. But I don't want people to think that the a20 is just a shitty engine that has no potential and should be tossed to the curb if you really want the car to perform. When nitrous or a big turbo start to figure into the equation then I definitely think a b series swap is the way to go, availibilty of good strong parts that can take that kind of abuse is a real benifit that the b series has over the a20.

andy

[Justanothermike]

ok this is where i stand on this B16 vs. A20 issue. The B16 is 1595ccs and the A20 is 1955ccs. How can an engine with such a smaller displacement make so much more power?!? After all the engine that moves the most air will make the most power right? The B16 is a very effiecient engine. after all how do u make 100 hp per liter?! The A20 is not that effecinet compared to the B16. If u where to some how make the A20 more efficient in air flow it will not have a problem making more power. Things like completely custom cams, port and polishes, upgraded intake systems, and larger valves would increase the efficiency level of the A20. the only thing that hurts the A20 in efficiency is the single exhaust valve and the single cam(can't rev as high). The extra displacement should over come that disadvantage tho. Also the B16 has a higher compression to start with. And VTEC does not give any engine an advantage. VTEC is only for streetablity. After all the VTEC lobe is just a lobe which can be created in a nonVTEC cam as well. So I think it all comes down to how much air can u move. The engine that can move the most air will make the most power.

This is also why i say the JDM B20a would be the best solution. i wanna see someone try and compare the B16 and the B20!!ha

Engines in the 3rd Gen Accord(from best to worst)
H22a
B20A
B18A and A20 are tied
B17
B16

Remember its just my opinion

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Mike I agree with your opinion. I'd only put a heightned emphisis on the "streetability" issue, as I hate high strung motors with a passion. I hate driving motors with torque black holes., that have to be abused to get any real power.

[A20A1]

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