a/c problem/question? (its gettin hot now!)

[johnwc723]

hey everyone,
okay i have a 89 lxi and the AC does not seem to work. When i press the button nothing seems to happen in terms of the idle on the engine or anything.

I know that the AC is out of freon because i drained it by accident (i was messing around with it). So i guess my real question is, would the air conditioning not function just because of a lack of freon or is it just messed up? What can i do to test it or fix it if it is messed up?

(does the defroster automatically turn on the AC?, if it does could the lack of freon in the system as it tired to turn on mess up the ac either, i used the defroster much during the winter but now i want AC!!) you get better gas mileage using AC anyways...

[infecto]

How do you get better gas mileage using the AC?

[mindlos]

AC will not engage at all if there is no refrigerant. Thats why nothing happen even though the A/C button lights up. What you need to do is pay tons of money to get R12 (freon) or do a R134A conversion. To do the coversion you need to completely evacuate the R12 at a certified place because it is illegal to release it to the air. Then you need to buy the conversion kit for $40 (says its compatible with residual R12) and a couple of R134A canisters for $7 each (you may not have to use both).

The rear defroster or defroster vents are not tied to the A/C at all. You get worse mileage with A/C coz it leeches off engine power.

[johnwc723]

i know at least with newer cars you get better gas mileage if you use the AC OPPOSED to having the windows down because opening the windows decreases how aerodynamic the car is knocking off many mpgs (many more than using the ac) it might be this way with the 3geez also but im not sure

[Coitis1]

i've never heard that. maybe on the highway, but not in city driving, i would imagine.

[mindlos]

I read that at the autozone website some time ago.

[ACCORD EX]

Originally posted by Coitis1
i've never heard that. maybe on the highway, but not in city driving, i would imagine.

i think he means comparing to opening the windows on the high way !
best gas milage is when the windows are closed on the highway and AC off , little worse with AC on , much worse with widnows open !


johnwc723 : yes AC won't engage when the system is out of freon ! the AC switch won't even turn the light ON ( green small LED )

MIKE

[johnwc723]

i am gettin the light however, oh well, i can go to wal mart and buy a kit for about $30

[DBMaster]

Actually, a mechanic I trust here in town says that Freeze-12 is the best conversion refrigerant. It is a blend and he says it actually cools BETTER than the original R-12 without the issues of R134a.

I also think Auto Cool is worth a look as well.

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/

You cannot just put R134a in if you have the Keihin compressor (Viton seals) and if you have the Nippon Denso you will just have lousy A/C performance and a short component life span.

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Originally posted by DBMaster
Actually, a mechanic I trust here in town says that Freeze-12 is the best conversion refrigerant. It is a blend and he says it actually cools BETTER than the original R-12 without the issues of R134a.

I also think Auto Cool is worth a look as well.

http://www.autocool-refrigerants.com/

You cannot just put R134a in if you have the Keihin compressor (Viton seals) and if you have the Nippon Denso you will just have lousy A/C performance and a short component life span.

My Nippondenso compressor just took a dump the other day, 2 months and 9 days after charging with R134a. Pretty sure it was the shaft seal, or some seal cuz it won't hold freon. I may look into one of those other refridgerants though. I'm also trying to find a Sanden compressor at the junkyard, hehe. I regret not grabbing the one I did find there once (actually twice)!

EDIT: Mike, I just bought 2 cans of that Freeze-12 off ebay (only $16!), so I'll see how it works! Hopefully better than the R134a. That got cold (40* F), but it took about 10 min or so to get there, and didn't always stay real cold. But hey if it'll keep my compressor from going dead!

[johnwc723]

cool thanks guys, maybe i wont go with r-134a afterall
does anyone know where i can get some of this replacement r-12 for cheap, that one website has it for like $40! for 3 cans

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Get it off ebay There's a guy selling a bunch of it for, I think $9.75 per can, and you would probably only need 2 at most. Ebay ownz, yO!

[DBMaster]

Yeah, I have noticed the prices on eBay coming down. $40 for three cans wold have been a great deal a year ago with R12 costing $35 a can at the automotive store. Obviously, as fewer and fewr cars are on the road that use it (auto manufacturers switched to R134a in 1994) the demand drops. You will need the EPA certification to buy it, though. I got mine about nine years ago.

Freeze-12 is a HC refrigerant blend that is actually part R134a. even though the mechanic says he likes it I am still inclined to try Auto-Cool as it is totally compatible with the mineral oil that is already in our systems and requires less and runs at LOWER pressures than even R12.

There are numerous issues with our A/C systems that render them less than well suited to use R134a (condenser design, drier dessicant, hose construction, compressor seals) Convert to R134a and you'll get cool air for a while, but long term - no way. Plus, you'll be totally unsatisfied when you get a really hot day and the air is blowing out your vents at 60 degrees instead of 45.

Jared: I am really interested in hearing about the Freeze-12 performance. It is the Keihin compressor that is specifically listed as not being usable with R134 due to the "Viton" shaft seal. This is the seal that went bad on mine after eight years, anyway. I have the Sanden retrofit kit from Honda with a full charge of R12. It cost me $1,000 four years ago, but it works quite well. I still miss the 31 degree air I could get on my 1972 Pontiac with its 18 year old Frigidaire compressor!

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Mike, I got my system completely flushed, put in new mineral oil, had it vacuumed, and put in the Freeze-12. Now I must say.... IT SUCKS!!!! Fu**ing 65 degrees isn't gonna cool nothin! Oh well, now I know. I think now I'm just gonna take that test for EPA cert so I can buy some R-12. Still a decent amount of it on ebay

EDIT - Well once the sun started to go down and it wasn't quite as burning hot, it got nice and cold (40 degrees). So I'll give it a couple days and see how it does. Maybe it just needed to circulate a little bit or something, or maybe it just sucks when it's hot, lol. I'm still gonna take the test so I can get R-12 though.

[88' Accord Ltd]

Originally posted by ACCORD EX
i think he means comparing to opening the windows on the high way !
best gas milage is when the windows are closed on the highway and AC off , little worse with AC on , much worse with widnows open !


johnwc723 : yes AC won't engage when the system is out of freon ! the AC switch won't even turn the light ON ( green small LED )

MIKE

Yeah even in the accords owners manual it says for best gas mileage use the fresh setting. Don't use the a/c or roll all the windows down. I got bored waiting for my girl to finish practice and read the whole thing.