2nd gen honda?

[RustyHo88]

my 2nd gen honda (84) has been doing weird things lately. its always had this little electrical problem... when i run too many non-essential things (heater, radio, headlights, wipers) at the same time, the car will just die. the problem seems to have gone away. however, now, whenever i come to a complete stop, it dies. i had the same problem (without the stalling beforehand) and my mechanic changed the max air flow sensor, and it has since worked fine. i had him change the same thing on my 84, and it did nothing. what else could it be? ive read other posts talking about the pcv valve, but i dont know where the heck that is on my 2nd generation. any ideas? also... what is the max air flow sensor, where is it, and is it known by any other names. thanks.
-will

[carotman]

The fun thing about the Mass airflow sensor is that teh 84 Accord doesn't have one.... so replacing it will not solve the problem.

Did you try some carb cleaner? The car might not idle fast enough.

[PhydeauX]

Do you have any trouble starting the car? Need to jump it frequently? My first guess would be the alternator isnt putting out enough juice. Second guess would be the idle up solenoid isn't kicking on.

andy

[RustyHo88]

i think i said something i didnt mean. i meant that my mechanic replaced the MAFS sensor on my 3rd gen '88 accord when it had the same problem. now my 84 is having the same problem. so my 84 has no MAFS? oh well. i checked my pcv filter today, it was fine, and i pulled the little hose that the EGR valve is connected to on my air cleaner pipe thing. i used to have problems jumping it, but i havnt since i replaced the batter 14 months ago. i replaced the alternator at 165000 miles, and now it has 231000, so i need to be wary of it, but i checked the charge in the battery, and it was ok. i havnt found any vaccum leaks, but i seem to continuously find more vacuum advance hoses. i also disconnected my ignitor, and noticed no difference in performace. my dad said he replaced the ignitor on the car when he first got it (120000 miles), so... i doubt its that... but like i said, no change in performance when i disconnect the ignitor. any other ideas guys? thanks.
-will

[PhydeauX]

Well if it was a weak alternator you would be having weak battery problems as well. I'll place my money on the idle up then. Does the car have an auto or manual trans? What rpm does the car idle at right now with all the lights and a/c off? Does the idle come up slightly when you turn on the headlights or the a/c? The 2nd gen carburators aren't the greatest things. More then likely you're going to need a rebuild, or a weber kit. The weber is cheaper, easier to install, gets better gas milage, and makes more horsepower. The down side is it's not emissions legal in most states (alot of places will let you get away with it though because the carb runs clean enough to pass a sniffer test). I was having a similar problem with my old 83. I rebuilt the carb twice, never got better. I droped a weber on and it ran like a champ.

andy

[RustyHo88]

the idle up solenoid? is that the little concave cylinder located next to the distributor cap and radiator bleeder thing? if not, where is it, and how do i test to see if it is working properly? my 84 is a 5 speed, no a/c. it idles fine when it has warmed up (1200 rpm) but when i first start it in the morning, it will idle to 2000 rpm or so, and then slowly drop down until it dies. when i turn on auxillary electronics, it dies more quickly when the engine is cold, but when its warm, there is no change. call me stupid, but ive never heard of a weber kit (except in posts). could you give me more info. i know the honda carburators are incredibly complex, i would never want to attempt a rebuilt unless it just doesnt work. but if a weber kit is simpler, then maybe i could give it a shot. im not worried about emissions, michigan does not do smog tests. by the way, when the car has been driven awhile, and i stop, and try to start it again, it usually wont at first. ill turn the key, and it doesnt even try to turn over. when i do it again though, it will start right up. i cleaned my battery terminals, but that didnt help. reading various posts leads me to beleive that maybe my main relay is shot. could the main relay also be causing my idle problem. also, my car will misfire when i try to accelerate too quickly, or is i keep the gas pedal in the same spot, it will just flutter if im at around 2500 rpm. i bet its just my carb... but i just thought id throw that out there. thanks.

[PhydeauX]

1200 is a bit high for a warm idle. I believe the book calls for 700-800ish. Aparently gen2 accords only got the idle up if they had a/c so that rules that out. If you did have it, it would be one of those solenoids on the side of the carb, I forget which one, there are so many.

hey it was a good thing I opend up the book to check that idle speed.

Chiltons 84-95 Accord/Prelude manual
Some 1984 Accord models may develop a stalling problem at idle. The probable cause of this stalling is a sticking slow mixture cut-off solenoid. If this is the case, the solenoid should be replaced with the updated type of solenoid. Additionaly, various cold starting and drivability problems on these cars were cured through the addition of assorted "cold-start" kits from Honda. Consult your dealer's service department for details.

Another thing too look into. I tryed replacing the solenoid on my 83 when it was having similar problems, it didn't help in that case. The weber carb is a replacement kit that comes with a new weber dgev carb, air cleaner, adapter plate, and throttle linkages. There are avaiable from places like Carbs Unlimited or Pierce Manifolds for about $350. You can also buy the parts seperate on ebay and save yourself a good amount. Used dgv series carbs can usually be found on ebay cheap, and they are very simple and easy to rebuild. If you're buying used a strait dgv carb has a manual choke, a dgav carb has a thermo choke, and a dgev carb has a electric choke. The electric choke is the easiest to install because the wireing is already there from your old carb. The adapter plate to fit the carb to your manifold can be bought from the same places you can get the whole kit for $50.

andy

[cruznz]

Originally posted by RustyHo88
[B]i think i said something i didnt mean. i meant that my mechanic replaced the MAFS sensor on my 3rd gen '88 accord when it had the same problem. now my 84 is having the same problem. so my 84 has no MAFS?]

I think you mean MAP sensor, although an MAF would be good to have too

[RustyHo88]

alright, i am getting a little confused. what is the difference bettween a mafs (mass air flow sensor) and a maps? and where the heck are they? PhydeauX, thanks for all your help. i should probably throw away my hanes manual and buy a chiltons manual, it seems more in depth. now, where is this infamous slow mixture cut off solenoid? and how do i test to see if it is the problem? if i install a weber carb kit, its not going to replace the carb, just all the moving parts correct? i cleaned out my carb today, seems to be doing a little better... other than the idle problem it has when its cold, and the intermittent misfiring, its perfectly fine. anyway, thanks again.

-will

[PhydeauX]

The slow mixture solenoid is on the back of the carb. There is so much crap back there I can't really describe where it is. It should be the only thing on the back (firewall side) that has a wire coming out of it.

The weber kit replaces the entire carb. It also eliminates every vacuum line but 1 and all the emissions controls. The motor goes from looking like this:


to this:


Simpler, easier to work on, and runs alot better then the stock carb ever did.

A map (manifold absolute pressure) sensor senses the amount of vacuume in the intake manifold. A maf (mass air flow) measures the volume of air passing through it. They are diferent means to the same end. Both allow the ecu to know how much air is entering the engine so it can add the proper amount of fuel and each have their own advantages and disadvantages.

andy

[RustyHo88]

thanks for all the info, and the pics. this is like the 3rd time i have tried to reply to your post, but whenever i hit 'submit reply' it took me back to the sign in screen. odd. anyway, its looks like you lifted the engine to put in the new carb. is that necessary, or could you do it by just taking all the engine that is connected to the manifold apart? i dont have a cherry picker, but i do have another car, so my 84 can sit around for awhile while i put it all together. i did see a solenoid looking thing on the firewall side of the engine last time i changed my oil filter (my filter is in the same spot as the 3 geez, unlike on the front like the 83s and previous had)... so ill just order a new slow mixture solenoid, look at it, and compare it to components until i find the stupid thing. also, where is the idle up solenoid? is that the thing next to the distributor cap that has the 2 vaccum hoses connected to it? thanks for all your help.

-will

ps... is it spelled vaccum, vacuum, or vaccuum?

[RustyHo88]

two u's. vacuum.

[PhydeauX]

No you don't have to take the engine out to replace the carb. The only pic I had of the stock engine was of when I was removing it. The engine in the second pic is actually an a20a3 from an 88 accord. The motors are almost identical and one easly can replace the other.

[RustyHo88]

where did you get your weber kit from? was it piercemanifolds.com? and did you have to do any modifications to it to get your kit to work? i see that the kit for the 86-89 accords is different than the kit for the 84-84 accords... so you probably dont know if the kit for my engine will work without modifications. ive dont lots of work on my car, but ive never really messed with the carburator... so i dont want to get into all of this too deep. im still looking for some kind of picture of the infamous slow mixture solenoid, so if anyone has one, or knows where i can find one, let me know. thanks again.

[PhydeauX]

I didn't get it from either one. There are serval other places that sell the kits, those are the two that I can think of off hand. I think nopi actually has them but I don't like nopi and refuse to buy from them even if they have the lowest price.

The kits for the 84-85 are diferent from the 86-89, buy the one for the 84 and everything will be fine. The gen2 and gen3 uses diferent carbs so they require diferent adapters to fit the weber. The gen3 has less hood clearance so it comes with a smaller air filter. Also the gen2 kit comes jetted to run on a 1.8L engine where the gen3 is for a 2.0. The only modification you need to do is flatten the throttle lever and drill a new hole in it. Its easy and only takes a minute with a drill and several washers. Converting to the weber is easier then swaping a stock carb, you dont have to worry about hooking it all back up. Bolt on the adapter, bolt on the carb, Hook up 1 vacuume line, 1 fuel line, 1 wire, and the throttle cable and your done.

andy

[RustyHo88]

in reading other posts regarding the Weber conversion to kit an 86-89, it seems that you loose your cruise control. is this true? and if so, is there some way i can keep my cruise with the weber kit?

[PhydeauX]

In the 2nd gen the cruise attaches to the accelerator pedal, not the carb linkage like the 3rd gen. The weber wont effect it provided you don't disconnect the vacuum line for the cruise actuator. You cruise actually still works, thats surprising.

andy

[RustyHo88]

well, hey, what can i say... my 84 has been very good to me. just out of curiosity, if the slow mixture solenoid is bad, could it also cause my car to misfire occasionally? or... my valve guides are also bad (blows blue smoke in morning when cold), could that be causing it to misfire? or do i just need to recheck my dist. cap, rotor, sp wires, spark plugs, and distributor?

[PhydeauX]

The slow mixture only effects the idle circut of the carb. Its supposed to cut off the fuel to the idle circut when you're coasting down to keep the car from back fireing. When it sticks it leans out the idle circut and the car behaves alot like it has a bad vacuum leak. A little blue smoke in the morning never hurt anything. As long as it burns off with in a minute or two its nothing to worry about. Missfires can be caused by plenty of things. I'd take care of the carb first since you already know that needs attention. If that doesn't take care of it then start looking at the ignition.

andy