Dyno Results!!

[Justanothermike]

Got the 88 LXi coupe dyno tunned today.
I'll let the numbers speak for themselves


140hp to the wheels!!thats equivilant to around 160-162hp at the flywheel. Its quite impressive to match the stock flywheel rating at the wheels, not to mention surpass it by 20hp. torque is broad and flat accros the power band




and some pics
http://www.openloopmotorsports.com/Dyno61302.html

[Jims 86LXI HB]

I'm very impressed with the torque curve, it's pretty darn flat, you've got a good amount from 2250rpms to 6000+. Mike could you tell us again what modes this car has, lightned flywheel?, cam specs?

[88LXi68]

Impressive numbers but how much more can you get out of it?

[Justanothermike]

a lot more. all bolt ons here bud. I/H/E, cam, throttlebody, ignition, and flywheel.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Ohh kay I guess I'll research the answer to my own question. Here's what the car has.
Engine: Honda A20A3 Fuel Injected
Stock Bottom End
Custom Ground Cam
Adjustable Cam Gear
DC Sports Header
Straight pipe
Cat Back Exhaust
Weapon R Intake
MSD 7AL-2
MSD Blaster Coil
Venom Injectors
Big Bore Throttle Body
Ported Intake Manifold
B & M Fuel Pressure Regulator
Battery Moved to Trunk
Custom Underdrive Crank Pulley

I'd like to know what more can be done,:lol Raise compression? wilder cam? work on the head?

[88LXi68]

thats what I was thinking. There arent many bolt ons left. All I can think of is an alternator pulley. Anything else? I am still impressed, just want to know what else.

[TeKKnoTeKK]

Very nice bro...thanks for sharing that, gives me something to work toward. As far as I'm concerned the B16 don't got shit on us, I have a lot of faith in our A20's

[88LXiHB]

Awesome, are all the mods Jim listed on your car durring the run??

[Justanothermike]

As far as I'm concerned the B16 don't got shit on us,

just being able to actually compare the old "ghetto" A20 with the ALL MIGHTY B16a must mean something about that B16. The accord was totaly streetable at the time of the dyno tune. no belts where removed, regular street tires, 91 pump gas, full exhaust, and full intake system with filter where still on the car. when i do swaps there is NO comparison. i must say hitting VTEC on the 4TH gen H22 is addicting

oh and wut else can be done.....lemme think.........port and polish, larger intake manifold, larger throttlebody(or more throttlebodies:winkwink, upgraded computer or air/fuel controler, higher compression pistons, larger valves, valve job, larger header, larger injectors, higher rate fuel pump, and can anybody else think of wut else!?!?

The air/fuel ratio was leaning out at the very top, thats why the curve started to flaten out some at the top. Theres to much air going into the engine and the injectors/ecu can't keep up. Once that is fixed the graph will continue to go SKYWARDS

[CARBurn]

That is impressive

Well, I hope that dyno run instill some confidence in all those who believe in the power of the A20!!!!

[MoonScryer]

Nice power curve...it shows what can be done...

[rallyeNate]

thats really good, the dyno run! maybe you could clue us in to what has been done to your car? that you realy help me track down whats robbing me of power. please list your cam spec (@0.05lobe lift)

[ACCORD EX]

nice power man !!

MIKE

[POS carb]

Very nice...
A good head porting and an ECU reprogramming should get u another 20hp maybe depends on how wild you want to go

[stgardner]

You could drop the power steering. That must drain some horses and torque.

I'd like to know what the grind was on the cam and if you tested the emissions to see how clean it stayed with those changes and the changes to the fuel system.

[87lxi]

all that stuff you did and you only got 140??? you say the b16a doesn't have sh!t on the a20 but it has as much as that hoped up a20 stock. if you did all that to the b16 you'd have well over 200 hp. at the wheels.

i have to get rid of my 98 civic ex and i'm just gonna drive my 87 lxi, but i'm not too happy about it. what is the big deal about the a20? its not fast, its not vtec. my civic was slow as hell and it had 127. you guys are happy with 100? set your sights higher.

i'm sorry if it sounds like i'm knockin the 3rd G accords, but all that work for only 140 hp? it just not worth it to me. this 87 lxi was my 2nd car and i like it, but it just doesn't have much power.

oh, and where can get a b20a5 to swap into the lxi? jdmclub.com and nippon motors doesn't have them. and have you guys had any experience with swapping the 89-91 b16a into a 3rd Gen accord? i just need to know where to get some mounting brackets.

later

[bass]

I know everyone is going to prove you wrong, and I'll start. Add up the cost of the mods on his A20, then compare it to a B16 and you see how much cheaper it is to stay with the A20. Plus the A20 has more torque. And I know you must be a riceboy because you said "What is the big deal about the A20?... its not vtec" There is a guy with a SOHC non-VTEC CRX who runs 11.2 all motor. VTEC isnt that big of a deal, you act like it will make your car keep up V8's. VTEC

[87lxi]

look man, the amount of money he put into his a20 is way over the cost of a b16a. way over. an 88-91 b16 is only like $1500, check jdmclub.com just a good exhaust system, headers, intake, and some cam gears or somethin adds up to about $1500. and you won't even gain 30 hp.

and when i say "whats the big deal about the a20", i mean it is not a powerful engine, they don't make them anymore so there is not a big demand for performance parts for them, there were never a big supply of performance parts for them in the first place compared to the b16, d16, b18, h22, or any other engine, and lastly, THEY ARE SLOW!

you can make ANY engine faster, but not all engines have a good potential to be fast. if you mod an a20 and a b16, dollar for dollar, you will not keep up. plus the b16s redline at a much higher rpm, which means you don't have to shift as much. shifting slows you down.

i don't think anyone thinks that if you have Vtec that you can keep up with V8s. this is a very common arguement for people without vtec and is either highly exaggerated or is just made up.
sure, its nice to have vtec, but its not the world. maybe if you've never had it, you don't know what its like.

[Justanothermike]

ok the A20 makes 120 hp stock to the flywheel. By the 15% drivetrain loss rule the 88 is making 165 flywheel (wow). thats a 45 hp gain. 45/120=37.5% hp gain.

B16 160x.375=60. 160+60=220. 220x.85(drivtrain loss)=187

87lxi, i want u to tell me when u see a B16 dyno 187 hp at the wheels with just the bolt ons i used.

oh and ur swap is never going to cost u the cost of the engine. I believe u need a mount kit that will cost u another 1400. and another 400-500 in misc parts. And thats assuming u know how to put it in yourself.

THEY ARE SLOW!

my A20 is not SLOW. ur A20 is slow.

[RobT5580]

Im not taking sides but if you want to swap a B16 with A/C and power steering your looking at like $2k for all the hardware plus the motor your up to $3400. I was gonna go B20A because i want to gain on torque but Mike Lee bailed out on the deal so im probably gonna go the placeracing route. I would like to do a bigger swap than B16 but im not gonna pay 3k for just the motor so i have B16 Turbo in mind but it will some time before that happens. The A20 has potential but at a cost i just say look at Justins Turbo even though its not all motor it seemed to be impressive to me.

[1989 DX R]

Mike, would it be possible to have 4 individual carb/throttlebodies on say, an A20a1? I saw a Neon (yuk) that ran 11's with 4 individual carb/tb on the intake side. Would that be possible?

Oh, nice Dyno run :super:

[CARBurn]

Originally posted by 87lxi
THEY ARE SLOW!

Says who?

After slapping on a weber, my accord(a20a1) is not slow. and I am only half way to where I want to be with this motor and seeing the work those guys at openloopmotorsport have done to their A20 I know know there is potential to gain more power with some more mods(cam, lightened flywheel, heavy duty clutch,etc.)

This is to all who don't believe in the power of the A20

[Sean]

i like the new attidue im seeing here on the board. thand to openloop motorsports there is a futre.

justanother mike would you like to test some stuff for me ????
you seem to have access to a dyno. i have some goodies i can pass yr way email me at [email protected]

[A20A1]

Why the accords A20 never got a ton of aftermarket support...

The accord wasn't looked on as the cheap easy top mod street car, liike how the civics and tegs were in the 90's.
Most of the cars were bought not by us, but by families... and they weren't too interested in modifying the cars, it was just a car to get to point a to point b with fuel economy and comfort.


Oh and DX R they are usually individual TB's with injectors... TWM makes such a set up... it kick's A$$ for sure but You'd have to get a program to run the efi and ignition.

[87lxi]

ok, the b16 is 1500 with ALL parts necessary for the job. the motor mounts are not 1400 at all! i have seen them for $600-$700 online and even that is damn high. i could just go to a metal shop and have them custom build me some mounts for under $100. all we're talking about is a heavy "L" shaped piece of metal that bolts to the motor and the frame. and even if i couldn't put it in, my mechanic will put it in for $600. so thats $2200 for the whole swap.

now that you have done all that to the a20, you have basically maxed it out at 140 hp and put nearly $2000 into it, correct? if you had a b16, you would start at 160 hp and work your way up from there. so even a stock b16 with 160 hp is worth the $2200.

and mike, what is your equation all about? it doesn't make any sense. you say the a20 is 120 hp to the flywheel, minus a 15% drivtrain loss, and you get 165 hp to the flywheel????? either you made a mistake or you are confused. the hp rating for cars are always to the flywheel unless otherwise noted. you subtract 15% of you flywheel power as a loss through the drivetrain, and you get your hp rating to the wheels. that is the power you actually get to use. so if the b16 is 160 to the flywheel, subtract 15% and you get 136 hp to the wheels. so you have 140 hp to the wheels after everything you've done, and the b16 is 136 hp to the wheels stock, your a20 might be just as fast as a b16 cause the b16 redlines at 8000 and the a20 redlines at (what?) 6500? is that right? i'm not sure. but anyway, with a b16, you won't shift as often, which keeps you accelerating faster.

and what is this 187 hp to the wheels that you're talking about? where did you get that from?

and it doesn't matter WHY there aren't an abundance of parts for the a20, what matters is, there aren't. i'll say this again, i'm not knockin the a20, there are just better engines out there that suit the performance scene much better. just because most of us have an a20 doesn't mean you have to raise hell when i say that they are slow. what i consider slow and what you all consider slow also might be two different things. i would like to be able to keep up with a gsr and smoke the LS and GS. and even those are not FAST cars. if you want to race, (and i don't mean pussy race) you're gonna have to have a little more than an a20 can put out.

i guess i'm done for the night. i didn't mean to make you guys read so much.

later