I'm sick of this shit! I want a car that you can actually buy parts for. I'm sick of making everything myself and adapting all kinds of shit just so some fucking punk can beat me in an almost stock car like an eclipse, or a mustang, or Whatever. I'm about to crash my fucking accord and buy something legit! All you have to do to an eclipse is basic upgrades, 20g, big intercooler, the apex'i super afc, bigger injectors, fuel pump, and it's fast as fuck!
p.s. sorry for my negativity
but wheres the fun in going to your local ricer shop and buying everything off the shelf??
Nothin' 2 Old Racing
LOL, no ones stopping you from jumping on the bandwagon.
- llia
I remember as a kid, having the choice of buying a toy aeroplane, or building one from a model kit. I would always choose the kit. You see, for me anyway, it was the building of the plane that was the fun part, not so much the plane itself.
"Feed their greed with your need for speed"
Now I'm confused... is it airplane or aeroplane?
- llia
accord theory, i understand your pain bro. The easiest should be the exhaust manifold, but unluckly for us, we dont seem to have one. I guess our gen has been overlooked too much that its easy to see it by comparing the support for our cars to the 4th gen. There is soo much they can do.
This is why, i am taking my time doing this turbo stuff. I am slowly getting my parts. Concentrating on what needs to be done. looking at what parts actrually fit our cars from other honda models. The beggest breakthru was when Jean said that for his B20A the exact match was the F22A cam gears. So im getting all the old parts like the clutch, Diff piston (dimensions), rod (dimensions) and cam sent in to resp compaines to find an exact match. Its a time taking process, but once i get them right, i will have no problem in the future. Even the newer guys can have a good foundation becaus of that.
But all i have to tell u is that, wait for a little while, and see how certain things are done and u will be glad. Ur car is just limited because of the clutch i suppose. All you need to know is how much Jhonny-O has accomplished. I been there in English Town too many times to see him run and his ideas, his courage and his willingness to try out new things always made me think positive.
Here is something cool to look at. this evo is a 9sec monster made by TurboTrix here in NJ. Look who is on the left lane to him
Hey I saw that in an issue of Turbo magazine... I think the most recent one... but I never can be sure cause Hawaii isn't as uptodate as I'd like it to be.
Maybe we should put up a fund to the big power 3gee... so they'll carry our 3geez.com logo and get us some more recognition.
Last edited by A20A1; 09-29-2004 at 04:43 PM.
- llia
Smart ass!Originally Posted by A20A1
. I guess that's just the ol' British schooling coming back.
"Feed their greed with your need for speed"
amen to that, and Jhonny would be the one who will probably get it. and he needs to ditch the stock dist. i hope he does
and that pic/ event was in E-town. not too many spectators then. It was like 3 months old.
well you could adapt another cars factory ecu but youd have to have it tuned for this engine... volumetric efficiency, head design, bore/stroke (displacement) intake and exhaust manifolds and every other part in the engine would make it behave differently than it was designed for, ie, if you took a computer/wiring harness and supporting electronics (ignition etc, boost controls) from a dsm and ran it on an accord if you could actually get it to run right youd have to tune it by altering the fuel/spark/boost curves to get the ecu to work with this engine and its supporting hardware... I doubt thatd be easier or better than getting either a standalone or adapting an obd-1 computer and modding the eproms (fuel/spark tables), there are just sooo many variables its sick, think of how much work sean had to go thru just to get his ecu setup to work, guys we are talking months. I have an Apexi Safc (digital blue display) and 450cc 1g dsm injectors with my walbro 255lph and if anything i have too much fuel, but the transition from vaccuum to boost is seamless and it runs like a factory turboed car, save for my flaky wastegate setup, also the MSD BTM seems to be working decently also, but in any setup, standalone or piggyback or different factory ecu with tuned eproms, tuning is the key. The only thing that limits the SAFC is the factory map sensor which reads boost only to about 10psi... after that the map sensor still thinks youre at 10psi even if you were at 15 or 20psi, so it wouldnt give you any fuel correction past 10psi, to go past that youll need somthing with a 3bar map sensor
oh yea and a clutch... i got my 6 puck sprung hub with dual diaphram pressure plate (100% stiffer than stock pressure plate... thats 2x clamping force kids) installed in the turbo accord and it seems like one hell of a nice clutch and it was cheaper than my spec stage V... the clutchnet one that i had custom made by them was $380 or so and didnt come with a throwout bearing (who cares)... if it holds up itll be worth it, im guessing that it should hold to probably 300lb ft, my stage V was rated to 414lb ft but used a stock-like pressure plate and 3 puck unsprung sintered iron pucks, shockingly enough i managed to drive that around town without too much trouble but it only lasted 500 miles unboosted non-thrashed.
Last edited by AccordEpicenter; 09-29-2004 at 05:48 PM.
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
also the dsm cars dont use vaccum dists like us. The use the magneto trigg set up with two coil packs as we know. So this just adds on to the fact of using a stock turbo car's ecu just to utelize the maf sensor unit and hence including all the sensors that the ecu needs to run off of.
I dont wanna trash Sean or talk bad of his work. I am glad he did his research, but my question has always been, why? it was not programable, he said it was copywrited and he could not use it. He said he would have the downloadable files, but it did work. his stuff was too expensive compared to the already existing aftermarket stuff. so his research was more of a knowledge gathering IMO, than any profit.
but yeah accordtheory, i would say get ur car converted to OBD-1 to run piggy back, if not i would say run standalone.
right...not to trash your ideas accordtheory... your thinking very in depth, good managemant/tuning is the key to making our turbo cars run good... just keep it simpler with known solutions, like an obd-1 conversion or a piggyback or full standalone... Somtimes paying the extra money for the peace of mind/tunability and just plain knowing what to expect and exactly what you have to do to get it to work are just worth it. I think seans ecu was a great idea and offered the tuneability compared to many obd-1 computers, actually even better and he had most of the guess work already done with the wiring harness etc
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
i still dont understand why you are paying SO much for a standalone when you could do OBD1 and uberdata for a small fraction of the cost. And you dont have the limitations of a VAFC or whatever. I'd rather spend the money on a bigger turbo/n2o and program accordingly into the ECU.
Nothin' 2 Old Racing
Caleb, the reason we use standalones despite their money is the ease of tunability, customer support, warrenty, staged boost setup, contol of electronic boost controls for variable boost limits, boost via speed/rpm set up, automatic ingestion of Nitrous or alcohol, crank trigger and much more
I am gonna be running standalone for various reasons. I am planning to run electronic boost control, nitrous and also alcohol injection so with the TEC3 i can easily run all these with the crank trigg im gonna do without any problem. All it needs is the input, tuned and its flawless. If it ever has a product glitch or what not, there is always warrenty.
To be honest, i have never heard of uberdata until someone mentioned it here not too long back. I was like wtf? I intend to have my car for a very long time and enter into carshows and get some recognition not only for the work i did but mainly for the 3g import scene.
But it all comes done to what someone's priorities, likes, financial, time and knowledge limitations. I am doing this project not only cause its my passion, but also to utelize my engineering skills into practice. I want this to be my real life proof of what i can do and find out where my limitiations are and most importantly what they are. I guess we will find out soon what will work and what wont
i guess you dont read much on the other big honda forums like honda-tech and stuff. sure the big boys run with standalone and alot of expensive shit, but all the budget DIYers all run hondata/uberdata.
i aint knocking ya for running it, its just way to uneconomical for most peeps. especially people on here.
The stuff you mentioned you can do with a standalone can be done easily with uberdata.
Nothin' 2 Old Racing
You are both right; there are pros and cons for each setup. Like you though, Caleb, cost is a factor to me as well. Not because I can't afford it either, but because I'd like to see one of us develope a reliable, drivable, turbocharged A20 so that we can pass it on to those still to come. Wouldn't it have been nice when you joined this forum to find that someone had already developed a turbo kit for you, and had the how to all written up? This board has helped me out quite a bit in the short time I've been a member, and I would like to make some contribution to it if I can. This is why I suggested Uberdata as a good, proven, economical alternative for our engine management. I think it's great that we suddenly have so many people experimenting with boosting, and are taking different paths to get there. This variety of knowledge will only make us that much smarter, and stronger as a group. Between all of us, we will eventually find a very good way, or maybe even several ways, to finally have a well boosted 3rd Gen. Keep up the chatter!
"Feed their greed with your need for speed"
i think uberdata/hondata/turboedit basically modified honda ecus can be set up well enough that theyd be more than adequate for serious serious power levels... theyre just not as user friendly and easy to program as say, a standalone... but like you guys say there are pros and cons to each setup.
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
The pump is in the windshield washer tank. It is rated at 750gph. It turns on anytime there is boost in the charge pipe (not necessarily in the intake manifold). The total volume of distilled water/antifreeze in the system is about a gallon. The heat exchanger is a B&M tranny cooler, not my first choice, but it should do the job. This is a legit alternative to the popular front mount..which isn't very suitable for the 3g.
crazy job man... that looks sick. Is it helping keep exhaust or engine temps down at all?
Your 4MB signature image has been deleted.
^And I'm going to leave it that way.
not bad, where in ca do you live at?
I have 2 B&M's. After some hard driving once you put the fan to them the oil lines and the cooler itself, are cool to the touch.
Nice custom work.
- llia
very cool, but how are you going to get it smogged?
Originally Posted by Justanothermike
my A20 is not SLOW. ur A20 is slow.
props for creativity man. Havent you ever seen pics of my FMIC?
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
Let me know how that oil cooler works to keep the water cool. I've been toying around with a few ideas for my nova, the oil cooler is one of them. The others being 2 oil coolers (assuming one isn't big enough) and a civic radiator with custom tanks.
andy
yeah man im curious on how ur gonna pass smog too
uhhhh
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