B20A: Carb or Inject it?

[Gregg86DX]

I have a dilemma and I am looking for input. I have recently aquired a B20A for my 86 DX and I am trying to figure out the best option for the fuel system. The B20 came as a complete engine, with all the Fuel injection parts, distributor, sensors and engine wiring.

My goals are:
- reliability
- economy
- performance
- low cost
- emissions legal (Oregon Standards, sniffer)

And they all are about equally important. I drive my car 50+ miles a day in a mix of traffic and weather conditions.

The way I see it, there are 3 options:
- Fuel inject it using parts that came with the motor and parts from a donor LXi
- Fuel inject it using parts that came with the motor and parts from other cars (like Prelude ECU or even a GM ECU setup)
- Carb it using my existing manifold and fuel setup but add a Weber 32/36 DGV.

Pros and Cons on each:

Stock FI Pros
- Off the shelf parts
- Good reliability and economy
- Good drivability, no tuning required.
- Reasonable cost
- Sanitary "stock appearance"

Stock FI Cons
- Time consuming and complicated install
- Limiting power potential of B20A

Modded FI Pros
- Good power potential

Modded FI Cons
- tricky install with mix-and-match components
- cost could be high

Carb Pros
- Easy install, using most existing parts
- low cost

Carb Cons
- Requires tuning
- could fail emissions
- potential drivability problems
- may add power, may not


Anything I am missing here? I need to figure this out so I can start gathering parts.

Any advice is appreciated,

Gregg

[shepherd79]

if i was you, i would stick with the engine you have now A20.
buy yourself EFi accord as a play toy and drop B20 into.

[NXRacer]

do you have a running(ran?) a20 (any model) you want to get rid of for cheap?

[k-roy]

I would personally go with a Weber DCOE setup on the B20A. That would kick some major ass.
If I were you I would stick with pgmfi due to the strict emissions that you have to deal with. Man I would hate having e-checks. Its a Honda for crying out loud. No matter how poorly its running its not as bad as a domestic V8 of the same year.

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by shepherd79
if i was you, i would stick with the engine you have now A20.
buy yourself EFi accord as a play toy and drop B20 into.

That thought has definitely crossed my mind. My B20A motor has an auto trans on it now, so if I went with an auto LXi, it would make it a super easy swap.

How about this one:

SEi For Sale

On the other hand, I really like my DX and I've done a lot of work to it. It's rust-free, straight and generally in good shape.

Food for thought...

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by NXRacer
do you have a running(ran?) a20 (any model) you want to get rid of for cheap?

Actually, depending on what path I go, I may, but I don't have a time frame yet. My A20 is actually a great running motor that got a new head, rings and rod bearings last year.

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by kroy
I would personally go with a Weber DCOE setup on the B20A. That would kick some major ass.
If I were you I would stick with pgmfi due to the strict emissions that you have to deal with. Man I would hate having e-checks. Its a Honda for crying out loud. No matter how poorly its running its not as bad as a domestic V8 of the same year.

DCOE's would rock for power, but I'd be scared oftuning them and yeah, that whole emissions thing might be a problem. I don't think Oregon is too bad, it's mostly a sniffer test. On my old Chevy truck, they don't even pop the hood to do the test.
I think I could get the DGV to go through, as long as the Cat was on and things like EGR were still hooked up.

As for domestic V8's, I have an old Mercury with a 429, and if it is running inside a garage, you have about 3 minutes before your eyes are burning so bad, you run screaming from the building. That is not a joke.

Gregg

[mykwikcoupe]

finally the post Ive been waiting for. I figure that if there someone else out there thinking of these things then Im not the only wacko one. Right?

Anyway, for the wifes 89 LX I am planning the 3rd option you have up there. I was going to do a modest rebiuld of the B20a. Consisting of all the machine work and probably an overbore. I am not looking for any great performance on this car as it is a daily driver also and the wife drives it and its an auto tranny.

I am planning to do the weber carb conversion and call it good with a pump upgrade and proper tuning. The way I look at it, the B20a comes with 160 hp but what I want is the 140 FT lBS torque. With the overbore and proper tuning I believe that I can keep close to the factory specs.

As far as performance goes, thats what my LXI B20A turbo is for. The way I plan to rebiuld the carbed b20a I should be able to add more fuel and power later on if needed. Hope this helps and if you have more questions just ask.

Try the "Desktop Dyno" if you want a rough guestimate. I SAID GUESSTIMATE so I am not guarenteeing anything as this board overthinks alot. As far as e-checks my state onlky does the sniffer test on the dyno so Im not worried about it with a 2.25 in pipe with an oversized cat and resonator and muffler.


Mike

[k-roy]

Originally posted by Gregg86DX
As for domestic V8's, I have an old Mercury with a 429, and if it is running inside a garage, you have about 3 minutes before your eyes are burning so bad, you run screaming from the building. That is not a joke.

Gregg

That sounds like My bros old 460 Mercury. 8mpg must suck.

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by kroy
That sounds like My bros old 460 Mercury. 8mpg must suck.

Yeah, but it's nice getting those Christmas cards from OPEC each year.

[Gregg86DX]

Have you used that Desktop Dyno to guesstimate HP on the carbed B20A?

Also, what kind of fuel system are you going to use with the turbo, and is that going to have a 5 speed?

Gregg

Originally posted by mykwikcoupe
Try the "Desktop Dyno" if you want a rough guestimate. I SAID GUESSTIMATE so I am not guarenteeing anything as this board overthinks alot. As far as e-checks my state onlky does the sniffer test on the dyno so Im not worried about it with a 2.25 in pipe with an oversized cat and resonator and muffler.


Mike

[mykwikcoupe]

yes the turbo is a 5 speed and as far as fuel and timing. Ive read that the vtech systems go into check mode after about 5 psi. I haventheard this to be true or false of the older cars like ours but i figured Id nip-it-in-the-bud anyway. I am planning on 550cc rc injectors. This is the only part I dont currently have. The rest is a apexi s-afc, hks, evc-4, vortech fmu, gude throttle body and intake, msd-6al.

As for the turbo parts, its a modified ludespeed trurbo with a ta34 garrett turbo with a t3 turbine, turbine a/r .48 and a compressor a/r of .42. I also have the upgraded external wastegate, tial 35mm wastegate, hks super sequential blow off valve.

For the rest its still undersided. I will most likely keep the compression the samenad go fter some jg pistons and rods. Shotpeedn the crank and have it deberred and all. I would like to have the head flow tested but dont know of a desent shop. The last one i had used underwent a falling out over a hardship. It was a great shop though.

If you have any questions or comments on my progress thus far feel free to add but please dont get into a debate with me. Mike

[Gregg86DX]

Originally posted by mykwikcoupe
If you have any questions or comments on my progress thus far feel free to add but please dont get into a debate with me. Mike

Lol! Trust me, I don't nearly enough about putting a turbo on the Accord to debate anything. It's not like we have a lot of options anyway. I was just curious since I think even without the turbo, the B20A would benefit from some type of improved fuel and timing management.

For my setup, (if I go FI) I would probably just go with a bigger fuel pump and adjustable fuel regulator and see how that worked. For timing I might an MSD box and play with base timing.

It sounds like you have a pretty sweet setup going and I'd like to see it some time.

Gregg

[Civvy]

What did u go then?? did u run fi or dgv? what did u do with ignition?

[Gregg86DX]

I have not installed the engine yet, but I actually sold my DX and I intend to buy an LXi so I can stay with FI. For ignition, I will either use the Intergra distributor and stock ECU (check this thread):

http://209.151.81.66/showthread.php?t=15163

or use the stock B20A distributor and a PK2 ECU from an 88-89 Prelude:

I will probably start with the Integra Dist/stock ECU since that looks to be the easiest swap. My B20A is an 88-89 (blacktop) so if I put it in an 88-89 LXi, it should be a pretty painless install.

If I was going to stay with a carb, I would use a weber DGV on an A20 manifold along with the Integra Dist/stock ECU.

Gregg

[Civvy]

RUNNING A CARB. If u were to unplug the injectors and try and run the dizzy alone the ECU would through a code?