The great VTEC debate.

[k-roy]

So let it begin.

I want everyones opinion on this one. Hopefully it will be a good debate.


VTEC SUCKS!


I am going to get a of B20Z in the spring, hopefully sooner. I am going to get a pair of nice agressive non vtec cams. Why is this? Because I want more power.

Sure VTEC is great at high rpms, it reminds me of a roller cam. But it is a comprimise at lower RPMs. You get lower emissions and a smoother idle. I really don't care about that, I'll just crank up the idle and forget about it. I don't have e-chacks to worry about either.

Is this stupid or a good idea?

[87AccordsterLx]

They make performance chips to kick vtec in whenever you want it to. Some people would rather have control of when they get the power. If you go on a long trip you can put the OEM chip back in and get awesome fuel economy.

I am personally not a fan of vtec, I think it's over-rated but to each his own. I do know that if you wish to boost, engines with vtec have a higher compression so you have a disadvantage there. My dad's 98 accord has vtec and it's pretty nice to hear that thing kick in and watch the rpms fly to redline. While in vtec his Acccord revs twice as fast as mine does. Granted, my Accord is still faster then his but he definitely has power where I don't.

[deadlight]

It's nothing special, it's just like having secondaries, I don't think it's revolutionary at all.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLx
They make performance chips to kick vtec in whenever you want it to. Some people would rather have control of when they get the power. If you go on a long trip you can put the OEM chip back in and get awesome fuel economy.

Thats nice and all but my 3G gets 43mpg on the highway. The B is for an Integra.

Hell I might even be crazy enough to put a pair of DCOEs on the little bitch.

[88LXi68]

Have you ever driven a built N/A vtec car? To get any N/A power out of these engines and STILL be drivable on the street you need vtec. For example, why does the H22A have 190hp and the H23A have 160? Vtec. Why does a B18B have 142hp where as a b18C1 has 170? Vtec. So yes it does offer emissions shit, but they make some nasty cams that will fuck emissions. Dont get me wrong, you can make a NON-VTEC engine very fast, but how streetable will the set up be?

[RobT5580]

I guess you have to drive some Vtec cars to appreciate it. All i know is the JDM H22 has plenty of power out the box. We did my friends swap last winter and when we finished all he did to it was a header, intake, and msd and that things was pretty sweet for a stock motor. Unfortunatly his head warped or cracked so its been off the road for awhile but he got a new head and had it ported and polished, valve springs, and Crower cams are on the way finally so hopefully i will get to see how it goes before it snows.

[3G Jester]

my av6 has vtec. i rememmber the first time i drove it after driving the 3g....bam the thing redlined when i floored it. i thought i blew something but all the sudden i was flyyying. it was hot.

[k-roy]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Have you ever driven a built N/A vtec car? To get any N/A power out of these engines and STILL be drivable on the street you need vtec. For example, why does the H22A have 190hp and the H23A have 160? Vtec. Why does a B18B have 142hp where as a b18C1 has 170? Vtec. So yes it does offer emissions shit, but they make some nasty cams that will fuck emissions. Dont get me wrong, you can make a NON-VTEC engine very fast, but how streetable will the set up be?

Yes I have driven cars with VTEC. A 96 Accord, 97 Integra GSR, 02 S2000, 03 Civic Si, 95 Prelude a few more I can't think of right now. They were all nice cars. The only VTEC system that impressed me was the S2000.

The H23 would have more power with a more agressive cam. The B18b has lower compression and the head does not flow as much air and has a more conservitive cam profile then the B18C1.

I want a nasty cam. I grew up in a town where the Mopar National meet is held every year and there is a Jegs store on Main st. Every other modded car has a roller cam with a big carb. So yea, I want some of that in a Honda. Call me carzy call me stupid I don't really care. I'll tke a couple of DCOEs and a wicked cam please.

[zero.counter]

VTEC has a purpose and it serves it well. Just leave it alone because it is not going anywhere and it evolving as emissions control becomes tighter. If anyone does not like it, just leave it and buy a Ford Focus...

[SteveDX89]

I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?

[k-roy]

Originally posted by SteveDX89
I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?

You are corrct. They get like 130hp out of a 2 Litre. Its not that great.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by SteveDX89
I thought the Focus had variable valve timing. Isn't Ford's called Zetec?

Sorry bro, I was being sarcastic...somewhat tame however. Yeah, the Zetec is their rendition of the VTEC (kind of) but the focus sucks as a whole package.

[Blue Impact]

I don't know anything about the Focus, other than it was made by Ford, but isn't VVT-i similar to VTEC, just that it's a little better? I agree with zero, VTEC has a purpose, so does VTECH.

[88LXi68]

Originally posted by kroy
Yes I have driven cars with VTEC. A 96 Accord, 97 Integra GSR, 02 S2000, 03 Civic Si, 95 Prelude a few more I can't think of right now. They were all nice cars. The only VTEC system that impressed me was the S2000.

The H23 would have more power with a more agressive cam. The B18b has lower compression and the head does not flow as much air and has a more conservitive cam profile then the B18C1.

I want a nasty cam. I grew up in a town where the Mopar National meet is held every year and there is a Jegs store on Main st. Every other modded car has a roller cam with a big carb. So yea, I want some of that in a Honda. Call me carzy call me stupid I don't really care. I'll tke a couple of DCOEs and a wicked cam please.

Yeah aggressive cams, but go on g2ic and check out all the n/a guys with b18a1 or b20b/z that are non vtec. There arent many because the amount required to get the HP out of it makes it non streetable. The better route is forced induction with those engines. If you arent worried about streetability then that is a HUGE difference.

[deadlight]

Originally posted by kroy
You are corrct. They get like 130hp out of a 2 Litre. Its not that great.

Yeah, but that's a base focus, kind of like how a base Civic doesn't get much more, an SVT however gets 170 from that 2 liter, compared to the Si's 160 from a 2 liter. So it's pretty even, 130 is not great, but it isn't meant to be either, and yes, I know the RSX's K20 gets 200 hp so don't bother with that point anybody.

[Stefi-blueLX]

Personally, I REALLY enjoy the VTEC. It's a nice little device. When I bought the Prelude, I wasn't impressed at all. Slow acceleration, but that VTEC...I liked. It just seems to take forever to kick in! But I really don't use it all the time. I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there . It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by Stefi-blueLX
Personally, I REALLY enjoy the VTEC. It's a nice little device. When I bought the Prelude, I wasn't impressed at all. Slow acceleration, but that VTEC...I liked. It just seems to take forever to kick in! But I really don't use it all the time. I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there . It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.

Is ur prelude 5spd?

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by Stefi-blueLX
I usually kick it in about 3x every 2 weeks, just to remind myself it's there . It's nice to hear. But after awhile, the excitemnet of it just dies down. So to me, it's just nice to have. I'm happy with or without it.

Just buy a VTEC controller and "You don't have to call, it's okay girl...". Sorry, I had an Usher moment.

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Just buy a VTEC controller and "You don't have to call, it's okay girl...". Sorry, I had an Usher moment.

VAFC is useless in a stock car.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
VAFC is useless in a stock car.

Hmmm, that's funny. I guess Adrian over at Hybrid Garage must be full of shit. Oh well.

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Hmmm, that's funny. I guess Adrian over at Hybrid Garage must be full of shit. Oh well.

Why use a VAFC on a stock car? Advancing the xcrossover is just going to make you loose power. VAFC works best when up grade ur head and u can dyno tune your with a VAFC.

[zero.counter]

Originally posted by 86dxAccord
Why use a VAFC on a stock car? Advancing the xcrossover is just going to make you loose power. VAFC works best when up grade ur head and u can dyno tune your with a VAFC.

Why not?

"On long striaghts, I was able to lean the mixture out and move the VTEC activation point to beyond the cruising speed. This gave me an estimated 40mpgfuel consumption. As the roads became more and more curved as I got nearer and nearer to San Francisco,I needed more power. Taking down the VTEC point to like 4000rpm, and richening out the fuel mix to compensate for the extra power requirements, the car performed a lot better over stock as it stayed within the VTEC range.

Finally, a week ago when I took my car in for emissions tests, the SFC-VTEC again proved itself useful. Leaning out my car to 5% lean, and taking up the VTEC point to 7000 rpm so that VTEC will not avtivate. Verdict - The car's emissions was even cleaner than that of the stock 1.5L, 8 valve engine. If course, I passed. "

Just something I picked up along the way.

Again, why not? Give me some reasons.
The second part of your comment could be perceived as fact by some and opinion by others as well.

[zero.counter]

I guess I should have looked at the part where you said "Useless", and stopped right there. I can't change your opinion and vice-versa right?

Oh yeah, and

[86dxAccord]

Originally posted by zero.counter
Why not?

"On long striaghts, I was able to lean the mixture out and move the VTEC activation point to beyond the cruising speed. This gave me an estimated 40mpgfuel consumption. As the roads became more and more curved as I got nearer and nearer to San Francisco,I needed more power. Taking down the VTEC point to like 4000rpm, and richening out the fuel mix to compensate for the extra power requirements, the car performed a lot better over stock as it stayed within the VTEC range.

Finally, a week ago when I took my car in for emissions tests, the SFC-VTEC again proved itself useful. Leaning out my car to 5% lean, and taking up the VTEC point to 7000 rpm so that VTEC will not avtivate. Verdict - The car's emissions was even cleaner than that of the stock 1.5L, 8 valve engine. If course, I passed. "

Just something I picked up along the way.

Again, why not? Give me some reasons.
The second part of your comment could be perceived as fact by some and opinion by others as well.

Shyt! I can Copy & Paste just you!

VTEC stands for Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control. The premise is that at low RPMs and at idle, a less aggressive cam grind is necessary to prevent "loping." Ever hear a pro drag car staging up at the gates? Sounds like it's about to stall. It's because he's running aggressive camshafts, and since the cam is spinning more slowly at idle, the intake valve is still open after combustion has completed. That's what causes loping. At higher RPMs, a more aggressive grind is desirable. The idea is that you want to cram as much air and fuel mixture (A/F) into that combustion chamber as possible, so that when it's ignited you get as grandiose an explosion as possible. So what is good at low RPMs is bad for high RPMs. So what do you do?

If you're Honda, you invent VTEC. What VTEC does is simply to employ different cam grinds at different RPMs. A less aggressive grind at low RPMs for a smooth idle and low to mid range power, and a more aggressive grind up high to produce that high end pop. At a strategically placed "VTEC crossover point," the camshaft switches grind from the less aggressive to the more aggressive.

What determines this point? Hours and hours dyno testing and tuning. If it is set too low, the more aggressive grind will kick in early, bogging down the engine (think "loping" at 3500 RPM). Too high, and the engine is missing out on valuable time it could be spending with the VTEC engaged. So all those fools who spent $400 on a VTEC timer running stock camshafts just so they could get their VTEC to kick in earlier- they're idiots. They just cost themselves a ton of midrange power. The stock crossover point is optimized for stock camshafts.

So when is a VTEC timer necessary? Easy- when you're no longer running stock camshafts.


If you want big power all motor, you go with one of the big players in the cam game- Toda Spec B and C, or Jun Stage 2 and 3, and you accept no substitutes. All (or at least 95%) of the 225+ all motor whp B18s are running these camshafts.

How does this relate to VTEC crossover point? Well, the VTEC grinds on these cams are so aggressive, that the VTEC point needs to be moved up- way up- usually to 6500-7000 RPM. These cams will also make power to 9500+ RPM (READ: Built motor). Run these in conjunction with high compression pistons (at least 10.5:1), and you'll have yourself an all motor wonder

[zero.counter]

Alright newb, you wanna play games First of all, I quoted my entry, then I asked "WHY NOT" ? I know what VTEC is, so please do not come here and preach to the choir. Personal experience dictates its use on a stock engine with some good outcomes, although not as good as Adrian's. I am not talking and never said big power or anything of the sort. I simply suggested its use regardless with the point being to adjust. Now again, tell me why not and that it will be bad for the stock engine in all ways and I will rescind, otherwise, please rethink your strategy.

Oh yeah, and

I am not debating its' built engine usage but moreso the fact that you said it was useless and said why would you.

Oh, and this is an opinion. Tell that to what I have seen and heard.
WHY NOT?