Project , Gm Ecm Kit / Turbo Kit

[rallyeNate]

the ecu in the f-body transam/cyclone/turbo sunbird ecu chip are in the same family as are honda. currenty i am in the work to retro fit the chevy ecu in my honda. the adventage to doing this that the those gm ecu listed above is that, they are one of the hack ecu out there.

[Sean]

i have considered using the 749 gm ecm. the only issue is getting it to work with the factory distributor. i don;t know how many people would goto the exspens of retrofitting a carb distributor with a gm module. then having to trash most if not all of the current efi components. its alot of expsnese.!!!

[rallyeNate]

this true, right now i have 7730(tpi comp) that i am going to try. the only thing i am worried about is the distributor module, getting the gm map sensor to fit( if need be) wont be problem and i am almost postive that are tps puts out 5volt @ wot. once i have the 7730 to fit the i will move to the 7749. i would start with a 7749 but a 7730 just fell into my lap. how is the baud rate on the 7749 compaired to the 7730, i know that 7730 is about 5x better than the 7747?

[Sean]

couldn;t tell you about various gm buad rates i have a snap on scanner. no nead for scanning software.

[Sean]

marc please delete all previous hack post and mark this importnat. its on to round 2.

for our lovely little wonder mobile there are 2 good ecm options.

gm 7165
or gm 7730/7727

both will work well. this will be an installment thing. showing both how to do it and parts i will make available upon request.

marc is there an ftp page on the 86-89accord site ????

if so email me detials and i will upload photos of work in progress.

as for cracking the ecm code HA its very well decoded !!!!
v8astrocapitan watch and learn. if you have q's email me you know where im at.

[1988starter]

Go funstick.:super:

[rallyeNate]

funstick i will backup you on this.

1- this wednesday will start an all out assult on converting my ecm to the 7730. v8astrocapitan might be coming over to lend a hand.

2- i have two points of concern with the swap. first is the aldl port, one will have to be installed somewere not realy a problem you must have one. second is the IGNITION MODULE, if it compable with gm computers. if not the other alturnative is to strip a gm DISTRIBUTOR its hall effect sensor and find someway to mount it your honda DISTRIBUTOR and swap ignition modules.

[Sean]

maybe use the factory crank angle refrence in the efi disrtibutor to trigger the gm module??? or use the carb distributor ??? or get real fancy and hook up a dis module and add a pick up on the cam. ?? use the factory crank angle sensor and say f the damn thing al togther.

i will help are you gonna be using the stock efi harness ???

[POS carb]

what kind of sensors... will we need to adapt gm sensors to the accord b/c the threads are probably different... how many sensors will be used?
map
tps
o2
crank angle sensor of some sort (maybe?)
engine/coolant temp
no Mass Airflow please :p

[Sean]

ah

map sensor
o2 sensor
coolant sensor
vss sensor
gear seletor position switch
and a few otehr. the code ive been thingking of using is in a different ecm the 7165 with 7808 code. it has a barometric pressure sensor. ooh la la.

current compatiabilty issues in term of hard parts

gm IAC how to make it work ???
egr control yes this ecu has egr !! lets use it and stay smog legal.
maybe the factory gm hall effect ?? well see.

honda distributor must have advance locked out.


as for gm ecms there are 2 that shine.

the 165 is easy to hook up and the 808 speed density offers awesome tunning power.

the 7727/730 will need memcals as well as the syphon or typhon bins to work with boost.

the 165 with 808 code has enough resolution in the mpas already to run boost but there is room to add more.

my personal choice is the 7165 with 808 code. i already have the
bins for teh 4 cylinder 2.0 holdens and i am setting them up to stock accord timming and feul delviery tables as best i can. then starts tunning when i get a tunned bin for the 808 i will make it public. this will make upgrades and stuff easier.

also the tables for the 7165 could be imported into the 7727/730 so it can go either way.

this is the new 3 g board im sick of the pissing and moaing ante up and help out. if you have efi and want a turbo this is a very nessacary upgrade !!!! if you don;t have efi this is a much better alternative to swap to.

[rallyeNate]

the only sensors that you should need to drag is a map sensor, vss, and maybe a IAC. the hard part about all this will be the vss; funstick do you have any ideas on this? 7730 you can adjust the input from the vss on the computer, how much it can be or will be needed i dont know.

[Sean]

well the accord has a magentic vss already its on pin b18 the color is striaght yellow its in the larger 2 peice conector. on the input side of the ecu. the single whit connector is the output side.
you can change the variable in the 808 programming to accomadate just about any vss. im not sure how to do this with the 730

[rallyeNate]

i am still playing catchup on some term ( i just got into the gm ecu tunning relm a couple of weeks ago), what is the 808 program?

the 7730 ecu it self has a setting on the board to adjust for the vss, but if i remember correctly the proper vss for the 7730 sends the info on a 40MHz either sine or squre wave, so it prolly amplitude modulated. how does the accord send its vss signal?

on thirdgen, what were you saying about the distributor, switch to the carb distributor? and use the gm spark advance?

[rallyeNate]

FUNSTICK, do you have pin digram for the wiring harness for the accord computer? or something that can tell me what each pin means.

[Sean]

ill get the pin swap info for you tommorw.and you need to stirp a gm distributor for its hall effect and use a carb distributor. as for the factory honda vss ill get back to on that one gotta check one out. never checked it for fq and wave form before.

[rallyeNate]

ill see what i can do about getting the hz wave form on the vss for the 7730. what computer are you going to use?

this wednesday i am going to the junkyard to get a chip, distributor and vss for the manual accord(eletrical), is there anything else.

[Sean]

yeah get a map, temp,knock,inlet charge temp,iac,the whole shebang. also can the 730 run peak/hold injectors ????

[Sean]

ok here is a pin out chart for the honda ecu. with descriptions i will post the 730 pin outs when you tell me which ecm you grab and what code yr gonnna run.



pins
honda

a1 brn inj #1
a2 blck grnd
a3 red inj #2
a4 blck grnd
a5 blu #inj 3
a6 grn/w blk f pump +switched
a7 yelw inj #4
a8 wht/use fpr anything
a9 blk/wblu use for anything
a10 red use for anything
a11 ????
a12 grn/wblack f pump on +switched
a13 yel/wblck ign run/strt
a14 ??????
a15 ylw/wblck ing run/strt
a16 ???????
a17 wht/wyelw battery allways hot + 15amp
a18 black/red ground


ok with the connectors facing you !!!!! on the honda ecm start at the fartehst left connector should be white. this is the A connector.

b1 ???
b2 red use for anythng
b3 ??
b4 b4 usefor anything
b5 ??
b6 ???
b7 grn :gear poistion switch
b8 blu/red ac clutch on 12v +
b9 grn/wht gear postion switch
b10 ???
b11 red/blu O2 sensor input 0.1-0.9 vlts
b12 ???
b13 blue/red ecu memory wire + alwy hot
b14 wht/red to alternator ??? not sure how it works
b15 ??
b16 ???
b17 ????
b18 yel VSS ouptu from dash
this is the middle connector connector B same numbering as before

c1 org to tdc sensor
c2 wht to tdc sensor
c3 org/blu to tdc sensor
c4 wht/blu to tdc sensor
c5 wht/red intake air temp
c6 yel/grn coolant temp
c7 red/yell tps
c8 yel egr postion sensor
c9 red outside baro pressure ( for alltitude)
c10 ???
c11 red/wht Map
c12 grn/wht 5 volts ref tps,barosensor,egr lift sen,engine temp
intake air temp
c13 ???
c14 blue/wht Map sensor
c15 red/whit Map
c16 whit O2 sensor
of course this is the connector all the way to the right with the ecm connectors facin you !!! on the ecm.

all the ??? should be blank pins not in the wire count but avaiable for conncetion to the honda ecm. if you doubt this info i would double check it against the factory harness for accuracy. take a multi meter and run some continuity tests.all the use for anythings terminate in the vacum box as well as the MAP sensor.
daigrams from chiltons. double check everything.

[rallyeNate]

how is the vaccum box (passanger side firewall) intagreated in the ecu on the honda?

at hell(autozone) today aka work, i was looking at the ignition module for the late model gm hei and are honda. the ignition module that is mounted interally was a ring shape with two leads coming off it, and the gm ignition module had a connecter just like it; i am not to familer with inter working of either ignition module but with having the same connections(distributor output) thay are prolly close. do you think thay are swapable in conjunction with using the 7730?

the 7749 is setup to run p/h tpi style injectors. i will find out the rest for you and get the answer for you tomorrow.

thanks for the wiring diagram!!

[Sean]

the vacum box house the map and a few vacum actuators. you can use this empty wirign form teh vaucm actuators for other things like egr and such. ill get with you latere im looking itno build some adapting harness's to make this swap easier

[Sean]

hello all. this is a topic to discuss isdea for using gm igntion modules. there are sevral ways to do this.

one is to use a gm 1227747 ecm in a timing only mode. using gm guts in the honda distributor.

the other works for swapping a gm ecm into a honda.

i am opening the disucsion on how to acomplish this.

[MiGeY]

What kind of advantage would this provide?
I really have no idea and just curious.

Thanx

[Sean]

it goes with the gm ecm idea.

[PhydeauX]

I have the parts, now I just have to make it work.

I'm starting with a gm 2.0L ohc 4 banger distributor (this one is from a turbo grand am) and one from an a20a1 (LX). The drives look compadable, but I just grabed them this afternoon so I haven't done much with it yet. I'll keep you all posted.

andy

[PhydeauX]

I'm about halyway through ripping them apart. I don't have anything to get the drive off the shaft of the grand am distributor here so I'll bring it to work tomorrow and finish it up. The drives are similar and they can probable be interchanged. The shafts are the same length, but the part where the rotor mounts is diferent. I don't know if the shafts can sway, but the grand am rotor definitly wont work with the honda cap, and you can't switch the caps. It looks like the reluctor is friction fited to the shaft on the gm rather tightly, I'm not sure if it will readily swap to the honda shaft.

After taking them apart and getting a good look at the guts I wonder if will the gm ecu run with the stock honda distributor. I don't have a scope anymore to see what the signals look like, but I have a feeling that they are close enough for funk. They both have 4 star reluctors and similar coils. The stators are diferent. The gm stator picks up on all for points of the reluctor every 90° of cam rotation while the honda only picks up on 2, but I don't that that will make a signifigent diference. I have a feeling that its possible. If I can get my hands on a scope again I'll test them out and see, but I don't know if I can get one any time soon.

andy