need some advice

[mark]

Need some help, I've been to 3 boards and can't find an answer

My 89 accord, sei, 5 speed, won't start. When I turn the key all lights come on, fuel pump comes on and I get power at the solenoid terminal. Changed the battery and starter already and jumped the clutch switch, still no start. The solenoid does not even click, but the tach jumps when I turn the key off. It's like just dead, but there is power to it. I can jump the starter and she'll start right up.

I just don't get it . I bought it new in 89 and never had any problems at all till now.

There are 2 starter signal fuses on the underdash fuse box, one has contunuity, the other kinda like an add on on the outside of the box does not. Both use 7.5 fuses. Could one of these be the problem.

I been going over this for 2 weeks, and at my wits end on this.

Someone got an idea on what this could be?

Many thanks

[shepherd79]

did you check the fuses under the hood.
make sure it is not your key switch. it may not have good connection.
the other thing, make sure your engine is not locked up.

[buzzbomber88lx]

did you get a new starter solenoid?? so the battery has a charge? ignition problems?

[mark]

did you check the fuses under the hood.
make sure it is not your key switch. it may not have good connection.
the other thing, make sure your engine is not locked up.

Hey thanks, in fact I was working on that this am. I'm swapping out everything I can think of and still no clicking in the solenoid.

I 've now also changed the battery cables, the key switch and the harness behind the key switch.

but note: now that I've changed the battery cables I hear a clicking noise when I connect the neg cable to the battery. Sounds like its coming from the underdash fuse box. Could there be a short in that fuse box?

Never mind, the clicking noise is from the door light coming on when I attach the neg battery cable. Strange.

Also, can you tell me why there are 2 starter signal switches on that fuse box?

All ideas welcome on this. thanks

[mark]

did you get a new starter solenoid?? so the battery has a charge? ignition problems?

Everything is being changed out. New starter and solenoid, new battery, new key switch, new harness behind the key switch, new battery cables. The only thing left is the clutch switch and starter control switch. I jumped the clutch switch, but no luck there.

I can jump the starter and it motor starts right up.

So I guess maybe the starter control switch is bad? Where in the world would that be located? I can't find a relay or switch from the solenoid wire. The harness goes into the fender well and I can't tell where it comes out.

Thanks

[rocky2]

Everything is being changed out. New starter and solenoid, new battery, new key switch, new harness behind the key switch, new battery cables. The only thing left is the clutch switch and starter control switch. I jumped the clutch switch, but no luck there.

I can jump the starter and it motor starts right up.

So I guess maybe the starter control switch is bad? Where in the world would that be located? I can't find a relay or switch from the solenoid wire. The harness goes into the fender well and I can't tell where it comes out.

Thanks

Did you do any work prior to this no start condition? You may have left off a ground strap. Thats if you did a lot of work to it before.

[mark]

Did you do any work prior to this no start condition? You may have left off a ground strap. Thats if you did a lot of work to it before.

No, haven't done work at all. After I put a new battery 2 weeks ago it did start for a couple of days, and I thought maybe it was the alternator that drained the new battery. Even though the battery reads 12 v on the voltmeter, I tried charging it from another car for about 10 minutes before turning the key and that didn't help.

It just like trying a start in gear without depressing the clutch, everything works except the selonoid.

I've disengaged the clutch switch from it's bracket so the plunger is always out, so that leaves the starter control switch, but I have no idea where to look.

Ideas?

[BITESIZE]

Damn, I'm stumped...........

[Justin86]

So when you jump the starter does it continue to run smooth? Turn the ignition to the #2 position and look to see if the ECU is throwing any codes. It is under the drivers seat and there is a little section on the cover that you lift up. Count how many times it blinks and there will be about a 2sec pause in between the code.

[Blue Impact]

Could be that your ignition keyhole is messed up. You might want to take that out and see if the backside of it is all grinded out or not. Good luck.

[Mac]

Do you have 12 volts on the big white wire at all times?
Is the case of the starter grounded?
Do you get 12 volts on the small Black/White wire with the key to start and the clutch pedal pushed?

[rocky2]

Do you have 12 volts on the big white wire at all times?
Is the case of the starter grounded?
Do you get 12 volts on the small Black/White wire with the key to start and the clutch pedal pushed?

Put the voltmeter across battery.....start engine it should read 14 or 14.03 volts. or alternaters bo

[Justin86]

oh yea you might want to change the ground wire for the battery cause that has cause problems more then once with people. Also check or postive wire going to the starter for good conection or any damage.

[rocky2]

Mark,

Where are yoU? Did any of this help work?

[mark]

Mark,

Where are yoU? Did any of this help work?

Sorry to be away for a while, it's my work.

I really appreciate the help from everyone.



The ignition key and harness behind it have been change and I'm getting 12 volts at the starter position or #3 on the key switch. I've also changed out the harness behind the ignition switch, that was from a salvage yard, but all the wiring matched-up from the original one, so that should have been ok.

Changing the battery cables brought no luck either, but I did notice that the negative cable is grounded to the battery plate, the part the battery sits on. That's looks really bad.

Is there anywhere else to ground that cable? The other end of the cable is grounded to the block down by the clutch cable.

[mark]

Do you have 12 volts on the big white wire at all times?
Is the case of the starter grounded?
Do you get 12 volts on the small Black/White wire with the key to start and the clutch pedal pushed?

Thank for replying.

I'm not sure which white wire your talking about. In the harness by the battery which also has the selonoid wire, there is a white wire from the underhood fuse box. Is that the one? If so, yea I get 12 volts there.

I cleaned the block where the starter is attached when I changed the starter, so that ground is good. I get infinite resistance when checked with the ohmmeter on the starter case.

The selonoid wire there is only 4-5 volts when the key is turned.

Is that enough to engage the starter? If not, do you know where I should look to see whats draining the power?

[mark]

oh yea you might want to change the ground wire for the battery cause that has cause problems more then once with people. Also check or postive wire going to the starter for good conection or any damage.

When I changed the cables noticed that the plate that the battery sits on looks pretty grubby. Can that cause a bad ground since the cable is attached there and the block?

Funny though, if I jump the starter the motor runs smooth like always, btw the key is in the #2 position. It doesn't even take a second for the motor to start. So does that rules out the starter control relay and the clutch switch?

I can tell there is power in the #3 position on the key switch, 'cause the fan will cut off and lights go dim when turned to that position.

[Mac]

Here's something to try: take a jumper cable, attach it to the neg post of the battery and touch the other end to the starter body. (Avoid touching any wires). Then have someone turn the key as you hold the cable to the starter.

I might be wrong about the color (white) of the wire I asked about. I meant the big wire on the starter should have 12 volts all the time.

The smaller wire on the starter should have 12 volts on it with the key to start (#3) position.

4 to 5 volts is not enough to close the solenoid.

[mark]

Here's something to try: take a jumper cable, attach it to the neg post of the battery and touch the other end to the starter body. (Avoid touching any wires). Then have someone turn the key as you hold the cable to the starter.

I might be wrong about the color (white) of the wire I asked about. I meant the big wire on the starter should have 12 volts all the time.

The smaller wire on the starter should have 12 volts on it with the key to start (#3) position.

4 to 5 volts is not enough to close the solenoid.

If I do your cable test and she starts that would mean the starter is not grounded, which would mean a ground on the block is bad?

If I read right, there is a ground on the thermostat housing from the harness that contains the ignition wire. That is the only ground wire that hasn't been changed.

The ground on the valve cover to the frame is new wire and the both cables on the battery are new. And I cleaned the areas real good before I reattached the wires. So.....I hope you've helped me solve this.

FYI..The battery cable to the starter has a constant 12 volts.

All the wires behind the key have 12 volts when I turn the key to #1 2 and 3 positions on the harness behind the key. But theres only 5 volts getting to the selonoid terminal. So there must be short somewhere, and I'm hoping it's that ground on the thermostat housing.

[Mac]

Yep, the starter should be grounded and if it starts that could be your problem. How did you clean the ground points? You should use a wire brush and get the metal clean and shinny. Also clean the area where the battery ground cable hooks to the battery mount real good. I think that is where the problem might lie.

[rocky2]

Yep, the starter should be grounded and if it starts that could be your problem. How did you clean the ground points? You should use a wire brush and get the metal clean and shinny. Also clean the area where the battery ground cable hooks to the battery mount real good. I think that is where the problem might lie.

How bout taking starter in your hand and wire brush the thing real tough on a wire wheel,then sandpaper the shit out of the hole on trans.

[mark]

The starter only takes a couple of minutes to take out, so i'll go back and clean all the grounds real good, and the neg cable to the block and see what the result is.

[mark]

Yep, the starter should be grounded and if it starts that could be your problem. How did you clean the ground points? You should use a wire brush and get the metal clean and shinny. Also clean the area where the battery ground cable hooks to the battery mount real good. I think that is where the problem might lie.

Thanks for the idea but no luck there either.

The Haynes manual reads that the radio condenser can prevent the engine from running. I don't have a tester and tv shops around here say they can test it, 'cept of course the Honda dealer.

Can you bypass the condenser?

[Mac]

OK, I think we are getting too deep here. The condenser is to the distributor and in fact it might affect the car running but I don't think it will stop the starter from engaging.

Let's back up. You changed the battery and it was fine. 2 weeks later no start. Now you have 12 volts on the big starter wire at all times and 4 volts on the little starter wire with the key to start (#3 pos).

If you put 12 volts to the little wire, it starts. Am I right so far? If so that's where the problem is.

I think we should go back to the clutch switch. My car (88 LX) only uses the clutch switch to disengage the cruise only so this is new to me. Anyway how did you jump it out? How many wires are on the clutch switch? What colors are the wires?

[mark]

OK, I think we are getting too deep here. The condenser is to the distributor and in fact it might affect the car running but I don't think it will stop the starter from engaging.

Let's back up. You changed the battery and it was fine. 2 weeks later no start. Now you have 12 volts on the big starter wire at all times and 4 volts on the little starter wire with the key to start (#3 pos).

If you put 12 volts to the little wire, it starts. Am I right so far? If so that's where the problem is.

I think we should go back to the clutch switch. My car (88 LX) only uses the clutch switch to disengage the cruise only so this is new to me. Anyway how did you jump it out? How many wires are on the clutch switch? What colors are the wires?

Yep, right so far..starts right up when you jump the starter...

The wires on the clutch switch are 2 pink and black. I took the switch off the brace so it's just hanging there, and rechecked them with a voltmeter. No juice to either black or pink with key in #3 position.

Acording to a wiring diagram from Alldata and the one in the Haynes manual, the clutch switch grounds the starter relay. But I can't seem to locate the relay to trace it.

Also, there is a 2nd starter signal fuse attached to the underdash fuse box coupled with a 20amp (H/L wash) fuse on the same connector. The 20amp fuse has power, the 7.5amp starter signal fuse does not.