Newbie needs help with accord .. dies after starting

**mikerr765** · 02-06-2004, 04:07 PM

Hi,
I am new here. I have been looking for a forum like this for days now

No one seems to care or no about carb hondas out there. You guys are awesome.
I have been reading past posts but am still in the dark so forgive me if this has been covered alot already.

My 85 accord (carb) 1.8 LX 190,000 miles has always run great, But starting about 2 weeks ago it dies after cold starting it, it will run for 5-10 seconds and then it dies no matter what i do with the pedal, then it starts after about 3-4 attempts. This is very predictable it does it everytime like clockwork. If the car is still warm though it starts right up and runs good. You help is appreciated much.
Where do i start ???

**k-roy** · 02-06-2004, 05:31 PM

Ok I am going to start with the most basic cause and suggest changing the fuel filter(s).
Your choke could also be clogged up. You should buy a can of carb cleaner.
When the car is cold take off the air filter and spray some cleaner into the carb. Also use your hand to move the linkage so that the throttle plate in the barrell in the carb is open. Then spray some more in. The best way is to spray in quick bursts with the straw on the tip of the can. Let it dry a few minutes. Then start the car. It might be a little bitchy at first but once it idles spray some more into the carb while working the linkage some more.

**accordlxi2.0** · 02-06-2004, 06:46 PM

when you first start it when it's cold
does it idle between 1,000-1,500 rpm(if it has a tach)
then the idle dies slowly, if so it's the thermovalve's for the fast idle.
my brother's lx has the same prob. that why we'er converting

**mikerr765** · 02-06-2004, 07:25 PM

[QUOTE=kroy]Ok I am going to start with the most basic cause and suggest changing the fuel filter(s).
QUOTE]
Kory thanks for the reply.
I have already sprayed a bunch of cleaner in the carb but just did the linkage tonight so well see what saturday brings. i have new filter but won't get them on till saturday. Is the choke butterfly supposed to be 100% closed when cold?? If so its not cannot even move it closed with my hand, but apter it does its initial start it then is closed but thats when is takes 3-4 trieds to get it started?? After running it does open to straight up position?
Its does not die slowly its abrupt.

**Blkblurr** · 02-07-2004, 06:37 AM

I don't have carbed engine but I think the butterfly should be open a small about after it starts when it's cold. you have to get some air in.

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-07-2004, 06:44 AM

I suggest you get a block heater so your block will stay warm at night. Carbs aren't the greatest in cold weather. Since they do need some warm air. My car takes a couple of trys to get it started and that's normal. When it's as cold as it is here its normal. I don't know where you live so I don't know if its very cold there. I'm installing a block heater very soon so I can plug my car in and keep my car warm.

**mikerr765** · 02-07-2004, 07:02 AM

Well I went out this morning and checked out how it worked again, Initially the choke is open some not closed all the way but not vertical either, there is fuel in the front bowlabout to the bottom of the dot, the rear bowl just to the top of the dot. Once the car is started the fuel drains out of the rear bowl and the car kills then the choke moves to a completely closed position after cranking it about 3 times it starts and i can see the fuel return to the rear bowl and fill it up to the dot and it runs as long as you keep your foot on the gas for awhile then the choke gradually goes vertical and the car runs fine. I am guessing the reason it kills is the gas in the bowl is gone then more has to pe pumped up there So why is the gas not going into the rear bowl right away???

I will change the fuel filter and check it again shortly.
Appreciate your suggestions.

**mikerr765** · 02-07-2004, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mike's89AccordLX

I suggest you get a block heater so your block will stay warm at night.

Mike I am in Mn also, but this same problem occurs if its in a heated garage.

**mikerr765** · 02-07-2004, 10:23 AM

UPdate...........
I changed both fuel filters and sprayed everything good and now the choke is closed all the way when its cold
and seems to open properly as it warms up but my problem is still exactly the same.
EVERYTIME and I mean everytime the car sits for a while, I can see through
the little windows that
gas stays in both bowls but then the gas in the line must drain back or something because after running 5-10 seconds the rear bowl goes dry then it
always (no matter what i do with the pedal)
kills, then i have to crank it a 3-4 times to get fuel back into the rear bowl
and it runs great until i let it sit again.
WHY

It just started doing this a couple weeks ago and is ruining my battery could it be the fuel pump???? or what please post your suggestion i am at the end of my ideas?

**mikerr765** · 02-07-2004, 01:11 PM

Now i am sure the problem is the fuel pressure is going down after it sits because
i took off the fuel line at carb and turned the car over and no fuel came out for about a minute of cranking?? then the
fuel comes out plenty and the car will run fine. The car started even with the line off and ran 5-10 sec just off the bowls. This only started a couple weeks ago so is the fuel pump what holds the fuel up in the line??? or is there a ball check of some type?

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 07:09 AM

Nobody here knows?????????

Should i be able to get the fuel pump to run by just turning the key forward on notch?? Because
I don't hear it clicking until I actually get the car started the second time after all the cranking??
Is there a relay or something i should check and bypass it somehow??

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 07:26 AM

Alright sorry I haven't had a chance to read this in awhile.

First off when you turn your key to the on position (not start but the one before start) you should hear a humming or a noise like that. That's the fuel pump kicking in. The fuel pump is supposed to keep fuel availible right away. It shouldn't take 2 or 3 trys like its taking you. And if you are not sure if you hear the humming sound or not. Have a friend turn the key to the on position and you be listening next to the gas door for the noise. (note: have the gas door open and have the gas cap off when doing this.)

I will look in my service manual for a possible relay that could have gone bad.

Where in MN are you located? I live in Mankato.

**k-roy** · 02-08-2004, 07:27 AM

Yea check the fuel relay for proper resistance. Im not sure of the specs, do you have a manual?
The haynes manual lists the test procedure for the relay.
Im thinking it could be the fuel pump as well. Try to get the fuel pressure checked.
When the key is turned 2 clicks the pump should run for a couple of seconds.
The quick way to check this is to have someone turn the key and listen for humming from the pump.
Im not sure if your pump is located inside or outside of the tank. My 87 is in tank and you can hear it fron behind the rear seat. My friends old 83 accord was outside the tank, on the chassis in front of the rear wheel.
If it is the fuel pump it should not be too expensive, mine cost less than $50.

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 07:31 AM

After thinking about it the relay couldn't be bad since the fuel pump does occasionally work. I had a car at school that I was working on had a fuel pump that didn't work and it ended up being a fuse. But since your car does work it couldn't be a fuse or a relay problem. Before you get a new fuel pump I suggest you buy a metal brush and get some baking soda and hot water b/c it could just be a corrosion issue since you do live where there's a lot of salty roads. Try and clean off the connections to the fuel pump + and - . It's important you do both b/c a lot of people just think they have to only do + but you need to do both. Let me know what you find out.

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 07:54 AM

Wow i live near Amboy 1/2 south of Mankato, small world.
I ordered a manual but its a chilton and not here yet.

Thanks for the replys guys.

Well i don't think there is a hum from the fuel pump, the only thing I hear initally when turning the key forward (not starting) is a click from under the dash or hood. Once it starts up, not the first time but the second time after all the cranking I can hear the pump clicking but not when it starts off the gas in the bowl. Since i took the fuel line off and had to crank it a few times to get any gas out tells me the fuel pump is not pumping right away and the gas has definately drained back down. I just don't want to have to buy a new fuel pump if its just a relay. Funny thing is once the car is running itruns fine so why would th fuel pump be bad?? maybe just the part that holds up the pressure is bad ???
Also it looks like it located infront he the tank and everthing is so rusty under there if I take out a bolt it will probably all fall apart.
this is predictable and can be duplicated everytime so I doublt the connections are bad but I'll clean them.How do i check the relay

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 08:12 AM

Alright I found 5 pages in my 1989 Honda Accord Service Manual.

I will scan them and post them on the site.

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 08:20 AM

Well I can get the pages to scan the entire page. I would think you could find out the same info on the online service manual.

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 09:05 AM

Where can i find the online service manual for an 85 accord 1.8 carb??

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 09:08 AM

hmm... I forgot you had an 85. Well if you want a service manual from honda they sell them for $45 to $50.

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 09:11 AM

Well i checked out the fuel pump and it for sure does not make a hum when I turn the key forwar, i thought it was supposed to come on then to build pressure???
Then I started the car, it ran out the fuel in the bowl and the pump did nt make any noise. I then cranked the car over a bunch about the third time it made a click and then the fourth it started up and clicked regularly.
Its like it had to get started or something?? could this be a relay problem or do you think the pump its self is bad? how should it act?

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 09:35 AM

Yeah it's supposed to build up the pressure when the key is on the on position. If you don't hear the pump come on I would get a new pump b/c the car wouldn't work if the relay or fuse were bad. The pump is about to be bad soon. Right now the pump is on its last leg.

The relay is supposed to make a click sound, that's what you're hearing when you turn the key, but you're also supposed to hear the humming sound for 2 seconds.

**k-roy** · 02-08-2004, 09:55 AM

My Haynes manual covers the 85 model too. Im gonna check it and post a few things in a bit

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mike's89AccordLX

Yeah it's supposed to build up the pressure when the key is on the on position. If you don't hear the pump come on I would get a new pump b/c the car wouldn't work if the relay or fuse were bad. The pump is about to be bad soon. Right now the pump is on its last leg.

The relay is supposed to make a click sound, that's what you're hearing when you turn the key, but you're also supposed to hear the humming sound for 2 seconds.

Mike thanks for the info that makes sense to me.

**mikerr765** · 02-08-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by kroy

My Haynes manual covers the 85 model too. Im gonna check it and post a few things in a bit

That sounds great kory, i'll be watching for it!
1. Does it back up what Mike posted above about the relay??
2. Also where does the manual say the pump is located for sure, and how to access it, I don't see any door in the trunk, maybe under seat or under car?

You guys are really helping, thank you.

**Mike's89AccordLX** · 02-08-2004, 11:20 AM

I have a haynes manual also but the bad thing is, it's at my school so I only have my Service manual at home here. I've noticed that every car I have worked on the fuel pump relay is inside by your left foot. But since I don't have the exact loaction that doesn't help you. If kroy doesn't have them for you by tomorrow I will post some pic sfor you.