Cutting the springs...questions

[Mattphi]

Ok so i got my rims (which i will post some pics later) and i am lowering it soon. I was debating whether or not to cut the springs or get my friends coilovers. The only problem with the coilovers is that it'll be like another 4 or 5 weeks and i need it lowered in 10 days...so heres the question...if i want to cut the springs and lower it about an inch or maybe an inch and a half, whats the deal with the camber kit that everyone has been tellin me about? A friend who has cut springs on all of his cars says that you only need the camber kit if you lower it like 3 or 4 inches...also what does the upper control arm do? Go up? Cuz its chillin right above the tire right now. so i dunno what all i need to do. Yall bare with me this is the first time lowering anything lol. Thanks

[nanaimo_honda_accord]

well i am getting eibach pro kit springs that is lowering it an inch and its designed so no camber kit is required, not sure with other kits and im pretty sure if you just cut your springs, which i would never do, you would need a camber kit.if not you will just be wasting your tires. toe and camber are the 2 major tire angles for wear.

[HondaBoy]

if you do a good job on cutting your springs, your tires will wear fairly good. we did this to a ZX2 and it turned out good. made sure to make the spring where it still fits into the groove thing. you want to know what your doing on this because the first time my friends did his car, it was uneven to one side. now has eibachs and looks nice and even. for a 2 inch drop on our cars, im really not sure what the hell you need to be sittin good. thats about the drop you would want. anyone know what looks best on the 3gee? i have 14's on mine and sometimes run 13's. so going to low on mine wouldnt be too good for ground clearance problems. guess you have 16's, which i think is a great size for the 3gee without looking too big and funky. i'd say get more 1.5 in or more for good look.

[AZmike]

The upper arm holds the wheel in place through the suspension's travel and at different steering positions. Cutting the springs will increase the springs rates slighty, but such a small increase may not be too much for the stock dampers to handle. Do not heat the springs, cuts them. You'll have a small amount of negative camber. You will probably be able to get away with it, but keep a very close eye on how your tires are wearing to avoid destroying them just in case something is off too much. Much more than 1.5" and the camber increases to the point of causing uneven tire wear.

[Mattphi]

Yea i was looking at how far my exhaust piping goes down in the back too...i dont think i could go much farther that an inch and a half without not having enough clearance and stuff for the road. My friend who cuts the springs has done it on 2 of his cars and a few other peoples too. They look awsome. He said that he hasnt had any "extra" wear on the tires or what not. And no-one else has had any problems. The spring fit flush into the "groove thing" like honda boy was saying, i made sure to look at that last night also.

[Blkblurr]

If you cut your springs the spring rate decreases. You have fewer coils to collaps than before. You will lower the car by the amount of height you remove from the spring and slightly more due to less spring force to hold the car up. I don't expect it will be much though.

[AZmike]

If you cut your springs the spring rate decreases. You have fewer coils to collaps than before. You will lower the car by the amount of height you remove from the spring and slightly more due to less spring force to hold the car up. I don't expect it will be much though.

No, a cut springs has a higher spring rate. Think about it this way: if you have a sping with 10 active coils and it takes 1000 pounds of force to defect the spring one inch that spring has a rate of 1000 lb/in. Each of the 10 coils deflects 0.1 inches for a 1000 pound load. Now remove two active coils. Each coil still deflects 0.1 inches per 1000 pounds of force; however, now that there are only 8 coils the total spring deflection for 1000 pounds in 0.8 inches so the new spring rate is 1000/0.8 = 1250 lb/in.

How can the spring's force holding the car up change? If the force is greater the the weight of the car the car would be accelerating upward. If the spring force was lower than the car it would be accelerating downward.

[mattalica]

OK!I would really suggest against doing it at all but I understand why u want to do it.My car has cut springs(4 inch drop)it was that way when I bought it.And the camber is way out!!!!It actually looks cool but it tears tires up.Im lucky to get 10,000 on a set of 30,000 tires.Anyway,If it's done right It's no big deal but if it's done wrong it is unsafe to drive.My shocks are gone and my ride is kinda squishy but I think w/ stiffer shocks it'll be allright.click the link below to see the drop.

[NXRacer]

if you cant afford a good set of springs/coilovers cutting is the next best way to go IMO. Cheap coil overs ride rough as hell. I rode in Justin's car this weekend and he has ground controls and they're pretty damn rough. A lot of poeple will tell you that cutting springs is a bad way to go, but if yo are going to go with cheap coil overs then cutting springs will give you a better ride esp if you only want to go with a 1.5" drop. With that small of a drop your camber should be fine. It might wear more then usual, but it shouldnt be too bad if your toe is good.

[MattsAccord]

I just got some nuespeed spring off ebay for 130 shipped. then about a week later I saw the for 85 or something. I would save to get these they ride good and are only an inch and a half drop.

[Mattphi]

See the friend who is sellin me his coilovers...STILL hasnt even takin them off...after he does he has to send them away. Today is monday...i need the car to be low by next wednesday...i plan on buying the coilovers once they get back to him. But yea...this guy who is cutting the springs cut his on his CRX with 350 Hp...2002 Spec V...his 89 Civic Hatch...and alot of other peoples cars...none of them have had to get a camber kit or anything...his is slammed...im talkin VERY SLAMMED and he had no camber kit. Im talkin just a 1.5 inch drop in the front and a 2 in the back or somethin. Lemme know what yall think i should do

[AZmike]

The drop that can be tolerated before requiring a camber kit depends on the suspension geometry and will vary from car to car. What works on a CRX will not necessarily work on an accord. 1.5" is about as much as you can drop without correcting the camber.

[Blkblurr]

No, a cut springs has a higher spring rate. Think about it this way: if you have a sping with 10 active coils and it takes 1000 pounds of force to defect the spring one inch that spring has a rate of 1000 lb/in. Each of the 10 coils deflects 0.1 inches for a 1000 pound load. Now remove two active coils. Each coil still deflects 0.1 inches per 1000 pounds of force; however, now that there are only 8 coils the total spring deflection for 1000 pounds in 0.8 inches so the new spring rate is 1000/0.8 = 1250 lb/in.

How can the spring's force holding the car up change? If the force is greater the the weight of the car the car would be accelerating upward. If the spring force was lower than the car it would be accelerating downward.

I understand what your saying but you have the formula backward. It now takes 800 lbs to deflect the car 1 inch. You've lost two coils each capable if lifting 100 lbs. the force is additive.

[cdixon311]

man let me tell you, when I bought my car the front springs had been clipped to give it a 3 inch drop and the whole reason I am looking at this thread is because I need a camber kit. I don't know if what they are telling you is true or not about being able to get away with an inch or so, but I do know that with 3 inches you will definately need a camber kit. The rate that I go through tires is just rediculous, I still have almost my full tred, but around the edge wires are sticking through. I've been looking on ebay, and a bunch of other sites and front camber kits (my cars only dropped in the front) run from 80 to 120 dollars, just think how much you'll be saving in the long run though.

So all in all, if you plan on clipping your springs, or probably even dropping it properly you are going to need a camber kit. Trust me I've been there.

[zero.counter]

I said this before:

Actually, cutting springs if you are on a budget, contrary to popular belief, is OK, and a much better option than certain examples of lowering that I have seen such as heating up the coils and compressing them!! Springs must never be put under a blow-torch, as it will result in the metal properties breaking down and the springs losing their firmness. If you do intend to lower your standard springs, just cut them with an angle grinder.

Cut springs are actually harder than std springs!
Why? The Coil Rate is the same, but the less number of coils in a spring, the harder the spring (Spring Rate increases). It doesn't make sense but its true. The equation, in words, is something like:

Spring Rate= (Gd^4)/(8ND^3)

G = torsional modules for steel = 11.25x10^6 or 11,250,000
d = wire diameter in inches
N = number of active coils
D = mean coil diameter
8 = a constant for all coil srpings

So in words, Spring Rate is the the function of the torsional modules for steel and wire diameter to the power of 4, over the coil spring constant times number of active coils times mean coil diameter.

- this formula only works for linear rate springs.
- to determine the number of active coils, count only those that can move.
- coils that are resting on mounting plates do not count as active.
- wire diameter can be acurately deterimined using a caliper
- mean coil diameter is achieved by measuring the outside and inside diamater of the coil spring from above.
- torsional module only works for steel, other materials such as titanium requires another factor.

If thats difficult to understand, lets just say that Spring Rate = wire diameter of coil / number of active coils X mean coild diameter.

So, look at that equation: the number of coils in the spring, as the denominator, means that the less coils in a spring, the harder it is.

BUT....

When you cut a spring, you must think about:
1) Less travel before the shock absorbers hit the bump stop. You don't want that for a road car, handling gets erratic when the suspension bottoms out (spring rate hits infinity!). By the way, never discard the bump stops as bottoming-out without bump stops harmst he suspension more.
2) Another set of standard springs for when you sell the car
3) Can your standard absorbers cope with the increased hardness of the springs?
4) And, cutting springs means that you don't have total control over the height. Cut too much, and you cant put them back!
5) Never lower your car more then 2 inches, maximum. More than that and the geometry changes drastically, and you car will handle worse, resulting in what is known as roll-oversteer. Excessive lowering also results in your CV joints suffering increased wear.


I still would not do it though, anything could go wrong. Cheap is not always good.

Structural integrity of the spring will be compromised. and could fail at any given moment regardless of mathematical probabilities.

Good luck with whatever you do!

[superguillermo]

Just cut the springs! If it turns out that you don't like them...get the coil-overs...and if that doesn't work out...then go back to stock springs...or even some aftermarket ones!