car running like crap need help

[Frankfurt812]

hey guys i am new to this forum so if i ask a ? that someone else has i apologize....i bought my 87 lxi last august, i have been experiencing some serious problems....after i go about 5 miles my pgm-fi light appears and the cars performane drops to be really sluggish...the led light under the seat flashes 12 times meaning lift sensor... but what stumps me is that after i park the car after i drive it for 10 or more miles or through the city (stoplights) and i go to start it up it will not start...it is acting as if it is loading up...i have replaced plugs, wires, airfilter, fuel filter, rotor cap, distributor cap, o2 sensor, timing corrected, cat checked, pcv valve, and much more. ive heard the egr only effects idle but i want some enthusiasts advice rather than experts. i really enjoy the car and want to keep keep it. please help me

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

... but what stumps me is that after i park the car after i drive it for 10 or more miles or through the city (stoplights) and i go to start it up it will not start...it is acting as if it is loading up...

If you mean it seems like it floods on a restart, with a fully warmed engine, the most likely cause would be a defective engine coolant temp sensor(ECT). It's one of the sensors mounted in the thermostat housing, the one closest to cylinder head.

[shepherd79]

you will have to replace the EGR valve to fix your problem.
is very easy to do, but the valve will cost a lot of money.
you can remove the valve and clean it with carb cleaner. that may fix the problem.

[k-roy]

Yea that valve is pretty expensive, I think its about $120 at the dealership.
I agree with Alex, clean out the valve with carb cleaner and get a NEW gasket.
If that does not work try picking up a couple from a junkyard, or someone in the marketplace might have one they could sell you.

[AZmike]

The only way the EGR could prevent the car from starting would be if it was stuck all the way open. The valve itself is easy to test. Connect a vacuum pump to the egr with the car idling. Showly apply 6 in Hg of vacumm the idle should slow down and get rough and then the engine should die as you approach 6 in. If this happens then EGR valve itself is probably fine and I'd check the EGR control system next.

I agree with Steve on the TW/ECT sensor. If the EGR seems ok after the test I'd replace the TW sensor (or at least test it). My sensor was acting up long before it was bad enough for the ECU to realize it and I've read the 86-87 FI cars have even more trouble detecting the bad sensor themselves.

[Frankfurt812]

okay what is the ect have to do with the restart and i do have another egr valave lined up and where cn i get a gasket for the egr i appreciate the replies and also if anyone knows or has a fuel pump cheap let me know thanks

[shepherd79]

when EGR valve brakes, everytime you start the car, the light won't light up because EGR valve starts to work at sertan RPM range or something like that.
after you clean the valve and put it back, don't forget to RESET the ECU.
to reset the ECU, pull the fuse in the fuse box under the hood for 10 seconds.

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

okay what is the ect have to do with the restart

Well, since I can't post a link to this info I found a while ago at a site called tech2tech.com, I'll just copy/paste it. It explains it better than I could.

The ECT sensor on Hondas will many times fail. The typical pattern is that they look fine at normal temperature, but go "cold" as the car approaches normal operating temperature. You can see this easily by monitoring the sensor voltage. It will start high and will be dropping towards .5 volt and then take off to a high voltage reading again. Some even will bounce around from high to low voltage. The screen capture to the left is a voltage waveform of a malfunctioning ECT sensor on a fully warmed Legend. The ECT voltage would jump from .6 to 4.5 volts.

So now the engine control module (ECM) thinks the car is cold again, when it is actually at normal operating temperature. This really does not create all that much of a problem while the car is running. The injector pulse width (PW) will only vary about .5ms from full hot to full cold.

The problem is when you cut the car off and do a restart. When the ECM "sees" a start signal and a cold signal at the same time it increases the injector PW from the normal running width of 2-3ms to as high as 100ms. A hot engine typically can not handle this much fuel, and the engine floods.

[Frankfurt812]

that is exactly what my car is doing thanx for the information...would that also be why my fan comes on irradically