dude, it is been one long day and it is not over yeat. i too damn hot for me. it is 73 deg out here. i am melting. i am from Siberia were the temp don't get this high till late june.
dude, it is been one long day and it is not over yeat. i too damn hot for me. it is 73 deg out here. i am melting. i am from Siberia were the temp don't get this high till late june.
Alex.
Hey smurf, i totally understand what you're trying to accomplish. It would be tight as hell to have twin calipers. But im just wondering if the time and effort it would take to get it working would be worth the extra stopping power. Unless you're doing competition autox or something, i dont think its worth it. If i were you i'd spend the couple grand you'd put into a custom brake setup into the turbo build up. Just my $.02
Nothin' 2 Old Racing
well if you just want to drag the car I wouldn't waste money on a project like this. Nut like me and others we want to drive our turbo everyday and stop also. I won't get the bigger calipers but I want to use 16's and not go bigger like the 4 piston calipers require. so for me it's all about having the bigger rotors but also keeping 16's.
I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.
Well the AEM big brake kit fits under 16 inch rims, and i dont see why the 4 piston wilwood wont. It cant be any bigger than 11 inch if i am not mistaken. If thats a huge factor. I can always get the calipers seperate for 50 bux and get seperate discs.
If i still wanna go with twin caliper, which i am not anymore, all i have to spend is 250 bux for the front AEM big brake kit, and $40 for a rebuilt calipers (pads excluded) and with a lil bit of machining, i got myself a twin caliper set up for under 300 bux. Its not even much and that pretty much covers the front.
My great misunderstanding was believing that our stock calipers were twin piston which is why i even started a thread like this. So now i know i dont want to do it because our stock calipers are stupid single piston, so its defenitely not worth it. Also, to say that if only our cars came with twin piston calipers (pistons on opposite sides, instead of the same side like the JDM) i would have considered understaking this project. But now, i rather go with the 4 piston calipers.
Justin, I am gonna get this car to the track, and also its going to go for autocross sometime after i finish everything up. yeah i am also doing the turbo and i am doing it for a lot less cause of my manager. Everything is gonna be finished up before this year and hopefully 75% before the end of the summer. Also, the A20 is getting rebuilt soon with lots of good stuff and hopefully lowered to 8.5:1 compression if i can if not just use the stock compression ratio. But as of priliminary set up, its gonna push around 200whp no less if possible, and later one with the motor work, i am going for around 300whp with lots of custom work being done to it by me.
Well I don't stop in here much anymore, don't have a 3rd gen anymore, not even a honda, just was gettin gsome info for a friend who is doing a super budget turbo project ie less then $300 cdn for eveyhting. Wow I am off topic already. Any way the point of this post is that brakes change rotating energy into heat energy. Therefore the only way to stop faster is to convert more energy. So to do this you need more surface area of the brake pad, hence "Big brake kits" or to add a second caliper as found on many high performance, or heavy weight vehicles. Yes mulitiple pistons help but they just distbute the load over the pad better, so givin the same size pad they will both have ultimately the same maximum energy conversion capacity. With this being said you will have more feel and control with the twin piston as well as slighty higher real world stopping power due to the better use of the pad. However with this all said using two single piston stock calipers, will DESTROY a similar sized single caliper twin piston setup due to the huge amount of surface area difference. Now if it was me going to all this trouble and I had the ability or the shop ability to make up the second bracket for the second caliper I would choose the dual calipers without a second thought.
Now for the actuall aplication if you run the lines in paralell with the orinal and you use the same length of line, as well as the same caliper, and pad, you should be so close to the same pressure that you would not need to diferentiate the pressure between them. Having and adjustble proportioning valve for front to rear bias is handy though.
With all of this being said what I would do in your positon is use the sloted or cross drilled rotor, with a dual caliper setup using the twin piston calipers from the legend that someone else had mentioned, and a good quailty "medium compound" racing pad, so as not to wear out once a month, and with that you would have unbelivable stopping power. If you still needed more, or jsut wanted to go with the nice look of rear disks, I would convert to the sei rear setup with the slotted or cross drilled "racing" rotors, the same medium compound pad, and just the stock caliper, with an adjustable proportioning valve for front to rear bias, you would have a great looking and stopping setup. I would be willing to say that you would be close to having the stopping power of a porche 911, or 944 turbo, mabey even 911 turbo. DON'T give up on it, it is a great idea.
One last thing as this is turning into a novel, why go to the expence of 6061, why not just use mild steel, plenty strong, easy to weld, easy to machine, and cheap, won't add that much weight for a small bracket.
well there is my 2 cents.
Ps. ignore the spelling it has been a long day.
damn that was long......... well I was looking around the j/y toady at the brakes. pretty mush all the Honda's and Acuras I look at the rears are the same but the 5G accord has twin piston caliper fronts and bigger pads then the others. thinking about snatching those to see how they work.
I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.
the single piston, 2 piston and 4 piston pads are all of different size pads right off the bad. THey cant be interchanged, even on the opposed 2 piston caliper even tho their size is similar to the single piston caliper.
Anyway, its not worth it because a 4 piston caliper is better when it comes to the time and money used and my project idea was actually due to my misunderstanding that our cars came with 2 piston calipers, but apparently i was dumb.
But since our cars will not be going at any speeds more than 130mph or even i will be not driving anyclose to that speed cause i am done with getting tickets, i guess the two caliper is good idea, but for a single piston caliper and two of the single piston caliper is just not worth it.
I am still looking into Big brake kits, that do not utelize the Stock caliper, but i will be using the stock front size caliper and pads to the rear.
Hold up so you want brake kits that dosn't use stock calipers but then you say you will use stock calipers. I'm so lost. There are big brake kits that have 4 piston calipers but they are $1500-2000 for just the front set, but you have to use a 17" wheel.Originally Posted by smufguy
I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.
i think smuff doesn't know what he wants. LOL. the way i see, he keeps jumping from big brake kits to stock JDM kit.
Alex.
hahahaha, well i want a 4piston caliper brake in the front, and 'big brake kit that uses stock calipers in the rear' get it?
Well damn he has got me spining in circles, I'm so lost.
I'm your local R&D nut. Fabracting, welding, tuning and breaking my stuff so you don't have to.
i dont know why you guys cant understand it. I said i want the 4 piston caliper brake kit up front and the AEM big brake kit that is used for the fronts, I am gonna use that for my rear, thats what i said.
why would you want your brakes be almost equal in size.
the fornt brakes always do 75% of the braking job. your rear brakes just help to keep the car from spinning plus the e-brake thing.
Alex.
i figured i dont have to change the rear that often and also since im using adj prop valves, i shpuld be okay, but its still a thought.
okay back to the worthless thread :rollseyes:. hehehe. I talked to Wilwood tech dept and since the rotor is 12.19" in dia without the caliper on it, They said that 17" rims are normally used for it. also they mentioned that any Rim with an inside diameter of 14" and 1.75" of space behind the hub face, it should clear the caliper and rotor, caliper mostly cause its the far end of the brake system.
Now i have to find a rim that is 17" or a rim that has an inside diameter of 14" and hub face space of 1.75". this 1.75" clearence translates to 44.45mm does that mean i defenitely need a wheel with 45mm offset? I hope my understanding is right.
smufguy, i'm kinda disappointed that you gave up on the twin caliper idea. it is sort of a radical idea, but just because stock calipers are single piston calipers doesn't mean it won't work or that its a bad idea. like you said, you can get reman 3g calipers for dirt cheap at an auto parts store, so parts will be very inexpensive to replace if they needed replacing. i think it would be a neat idea to try this instead of spending $2k on a big brake setup.
machine your bracket to hold the secondary caliper, like you said you would, and run the brake lines parrallel to the primary caliper's lines, like you said you would, and attach a T fitting to the master cylinder to provide for both the brake lines. a jdm master cylinder from a twin piston setup would be a good idea since it probably creates higher pressure than a single piston master cylinder (you might want to look into that). i'd use a GSR front brake setup in the rear (after converting to discs or course), so you're front/rear braking ability isn't way off. an adjustable proportioning valve is a good idea, like people said. i'd say you could spend under $500 on this setup and have some great stopping power. like dvst8rcbr said, a greater amount of surface area to grab on is gonna help you out a lot. later on down the road if you decide that your braking ability still isn't as good as it could be, you could upgrade to twin caliper jdm twin-piston calipers in the front. they would bolt right up. whoa, twin twin piston calipers. lol.
you seemed so set on this project at the beginning of this thread. even when people advised that you just get a brake kit, you wanted to engineer something yourself. you can still do it. like i said, just because stock calipers are single piston calipers doesn't change anything.
the problem is always cost vs benefit. With our 3g limited on tire size and also limited via no ABS. this is pointless. I was looking into soo many things and the max we can safely run are 12" rotors and no more. this is because, these require 17" rim and even that is pushing it. Since the car is gonna be a daily driver with crazy milage on it ( i put about 25K in a year) this project is not worth it. Im moving to improving the rear.
I was looking and calling all the guys i know and seems like for the price and the performance, im sticking with the wilwood up front. This is because no one makes aftermarket twin piston (inline pistons) besides baer and even their set up is twice the cost of my wilwoods. so my tackle is actually figuering out how to get around the rear. I was gonna use electronic parking brake set up via solonoids. More of a line lock (used in drag race) set up but with our diagonal brake distribution set up, it proved nothing.
im putting my engineering brain and ideas into my motor and the turbo. Mainly the turbo. its gonna be sick, im still drawing up my manifold designs and running tests on em to find out how they will be. And finding someone to make me one is just a lil bit hard. But trust me, once the design is made, i will make sure that i have it available for others so that they can use this to make their own.
Back to brakes, im actually looking into adapting first gen legend parts (some already fit directly like calipers and shit) so that we dont have to scramble for the sei. My problem is actually finding some spare time to actually go around the junkyard and dealerships collecting part numbers.
Believe me, trying to adapt a civic brake kits are not quite easy as all for a normal guy. Thats why when im done with this, everything is gonna be at peoples fingertips. Its gonna be in the mid of next year. but people who are around till then, will find a lot of work is already cut out for them.
PS: The Brake lines have pressure upto 2000 psi and anything not screwed in and bolted in, like a T splitter held by clamps, will just push open in no time and with the heat and repeated usage, it wont last. It will be a thing of regular maintanance and inspection every couple of hundred miles and its something nobody wants to keep doing.
Hope this helps you train. WElcome to the board and i am sure a lot the projects u come across here will help u.
i've read about people trying to do twin caliper setups and it seems that for the extra weight and work thats involved, the increased breaking power isnt that great. I think it would be a better idea to invest your time and energy into looking at what other honda's brake system might be adapted to ours. The 5th gen accords can use the NSX calipers and Acura CL rotors which is a HUGE improvement over stock. Working on something like that seems like a better idea then trying to jimmy rig a dual caliper setup.
Nothin' 2 Old Racing
praveen, i can help you out a lot with the parts numbers... PM me or email me at [email protected]
[QUOTE=smufguy]
PS: The Brake lines have pressure upto 2000 psi and anything not screwed in and bolted in, like a T splitter held by clamps, will just push open in no time and with the heat and repeated usage, it wont last. It will be a thing of regular maintanance and inspection every couple of hundred miles and its something nobody wants to keep doing.
QUOTE]
the T fitting would be made for a brake system. you can prob find an over-the-counter T fitting. if not, you can have any manufacturer of brake lines make it for you. either way, it will be designed to hold the pressures of a hydraulic brake system, so it won't blow apart. holding it in by clamps is not what i had in mind at all. but if you've made your decision, thats it i guess.
thanks for the welcome.
for the time and money, its just not worth it and its not possible without having to run some serious numbers on the knuckle to get the extra bracket machined to hold it up there and even then, with no solid support on the right side (looking at the Driver side disk) the caliper would fiex and would be a lot more of a headache. Trust me. When i get the 4 piston caliper in there by next year, it will be something. All i have to worry about is getting the twin piston rear caliper set up with the parking brake in it. I have to get a different prop valve, i dont know if the Se-i will help, but i have to see what i can do and also im actually looking into something really un-thought of to get my 4 disks work good. U will be suprised what i got in mind.
ANyway, this is it. The two floating caliper is just not worth it, It woudl be a great improvement to use the JDM twin piston claiper. But for some, even they are not enough. My car like said in previous thread, is gonna be a daily driver and also its going to go into car shows once its done. This project along with my other projects are gonna take a lot of time, hardwork and lots of money. But it will be a statement none-the-less.
Last edited by smufguy; 10-11-2004 at 05:27 PM.
thats cool. do what you gotta do.
ok so some said they can easly get the jdm twin piston calipres. well i am 90% done with my jdm conversion. i need those and i cant find them. any info
3gmodifier(aka)JDM WHORE!
"IF YOUR CAR HAS A PROBLEM, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM"
for starters you should do the search
here is one of the members selling them.
https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53716
or you can contact this junk yard in New Zeland and see if they can get them for you.
http://www.stronghonda.co.nz/
Last edited by shepherd79; 08-17-2006 at 05:41 AM.
Alex.
Shame you guy's aren't over here or i could have sorted you out with some of these!! I think the DX 2G lude caliper bolt pattern is the same as yours if not theres allways swapping out the whole knuckle for a Lude one!!
Best of all there nearly 300mm and they fit under a 15" Rim so no nasty Blingy 17" rims required!!
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