PROJECT, TWIN CALIPERS

**smufguy** · 04-12-2004, 11:41 PM

I think this can be considered as a performance mod cause it boosts your stopping performance right? Well After i drove a Bently i was stunned by its braking design in the front. As i mentioned in one of my thread, i figured i would put a new thread here. Basically that Bently had two calipers in the front. One 4 piston caliper and one 2 piston caliper, in the front and rear of the disk.

I am in the process of getting my turbo parts to gether and i decided its a good time to invest in some good brakes and big brake kits that uses stock calipers are good investment for the money, but still use stock size pads and contact patch is the same, despite the rotor being big. But the big brake kits with bigger pads are not only expensive, the pads are expensive too. So i figured i would utelize my knowledge about the Bently's design to use it on my car.

I have to carefully look at the caliper design and the hook up on the arm in the front and machine a bracket that would hold the secondary caliper. If i can make it happen, it would be the first 3g with twin calipers in the front. Of course the secondary would be usign the stock size pads, hence its easier to get.

The lines for this secondary caliper is gonna run parallel with the primary in the front of the rotor. Since the brakes are hydraulic, running them in parallel would not be that bad. The only task is gonna be where to run them parallel from, I was gonna take the lines from the Propotioning valve, use custom braided hose and fittings to run two seperate lines from the propotining valve itself.

The other idea was to use the custom dual lines instead of the single rubber stock hose from the wheel well, its the same and it being hydraulic, i dont think it would be that bad.

So to summerize, The reason for this mod is to achieve close enough stopping power as those 1200 buck big brake kit for half the price utelizing available parts and some machining time. In a period of a month and a half, its going to be undertaken and possibly gonna use 6061 aluminum because its easier to get and machine and they are strong enough.

Please feel free to add your comments as in how you would tackle this project, any comment is welcome. I know this is outta some people's league and might feel stupid for some. But its a project none-the less.

**shepherd79** · 04-13-2004, 03:29 AM

you might as well get new adjustible proportion valve.
this way you will be able to dial in the right amount of pressure in the bront and rear.

***Vanilla Sky*** · 04-13-2004, 04:15 AM

i agree with shep... i've thought that this would be a good idea, but for this kind of thing, i like factory produced stuff... just opinion, but this will definately be a project to watch, and possibly copy

**MoonScryer** · 04-13-2004, 04:39 AM

......or just use the two piston caliper from a Legend GS/LS. What my plan is...

**smufguy** · 04-13-2004, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by shepherd79

you might as well get new adjustible proportion valve.
this way you will be able to dial in the right amount of pressure in the bront and rear.

Alex where would i get an adjustable propotioning valve? Sounds like a pretty darn good idea. Hey can u cross reference me a part number for a 1st gen legend and our 88-89 lxi Brake boosters? thanks, i could not seem to find it. i guess i might need it for this project

Okay how about this? http://www.magnumforceracing.com/wil...g_residual.asp

**shepherd79** · 04-13-2004, 09:01 AM

legend brake booster part number: 06464-SD4-010
accord brake booster part number: 06464-SE3-010
they look simular but the legend booster is 10" in diameter and accord is 9" in diameter.

smuff i think you are getting into a huge progect here.
if i was you i would find JDM accord that had B20. they had twin piston calipers on accord in japan. it will bolt up to a stock LXI hub. all you have to do after that is get JDM proportion valve or adjustible valve and you are set to go.
oh yeah cross drilled or slotted rotors.
look here: http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/about.html scroll down to suspension section and read it. we have one member from japan, so i would ask him if he can get some twin piston calipers and proportion valve.

**eightyfivelude** · 04-13-2004, 09:10 AM

dual calipers = overkill.... you are talking like 8000lb car vs 2000lb car. One two or 4 piston caliper would be more than enough. I understand you are workin on a budget as most of us are. I would invest more time into a bigger single caliper setup.

Matt

**shepherd79** · 04-13-2004, 09:15 AM

8000lb car? what kind tank are you talking about.

here are the part numbers for JDM twin piston calipers: 45210-SE0-936 and 45230-SE0-936. unfortunatly you can't order them from US dealers. so you will have to find some contact in Japan.

and here is the part number for brake pads for those calipers 45022-SE1-911.

**smufguy** · 04-13-2004, 10:04 AM

This is a real unique project and its full of hurdles nonetheless. Its more of a challenge. To be honest, I am getting tired of bolt ons. There is not a lot of people out there who wants to try new things, Adapting and modifying things. I wanna walk around the parking lot and step back and look at a car twice. a car that is subtle and yet stands out to the trained eye. A car that makes ppl go wtf is it? Thats what i want my car to be like, something unique, something that never has been seen in the general public. Thats why i am spending a little bit more money and researching and seeing if they are attainable. This kinda project has never been done, and yet why should be impossible when no one has ever tried it? Is it because its hard to comprehend? Well being the engineering student i am, i might not be smart when it comes to thermodynamics and heat transfer and calc5 crap, but from experience and likings, there are things i believe i can do. And i am taking steps in my life to get there, to stand out in the public and get noticed.

To explain more, i am gonna be writing my thesis paper this summer, yeah i am still an undergrad, but i feel compelled to do something i like and prove that the ideas i have and the knowledge i have gathered can make something new and innovative and actually is easy to do and more usuable. Well, thats the story behind all these projects i am undertaking, my car and the work that is being done to it is more like my name tag, something that people would look and know whose it is and how it was made.

The rotors i am looking into are the AEM big brake and these rotors from RacingBrake whose manf is located right here in NJ. These are used in vettes and vipers and also they are going to be in SEMA this year.

here is the applicationg guide http://www.racingbrake.com/pdf/rbtppmproducts.pdf

**Justin86** · 04-17-2004, 03:39 PM

hum thats is a different style then the solid rotors I got. I would be instaling them right now but I also need ball joints (not cheap). Then after the inside wall blew out my passenger front tire at 80mph I had to get new front tires ($200) So inorder of preventing my tires from blowing out every 20K I need camber kits also. Damn cheap ass Kumho tires.

**shepherd79** · 04-17-2004, 05:17 PM

Smufguy, i give you props for being diff., but i still think you are doing hard way.
if you get JDM twin calipers, you will be the only one guy in the US with original twin calipers. it should be enought to stop your car on the dime, but it is your car so do what ever you want.

**smufguy** · 04-19-2004, 07:50 AM

I wont mind the JDM twin piston calipers, but you know i like the twin caliper idea than the regular twin piston. yeah it would be cool to have, but i am sure with the limited resourses of contacts i have and the money i have, its not possible for me to get a JDM twin piston that easy. Im also gonna be machining a lot of parts like throttle bodies and stuff for my car from a stock 6061 AL during the summer just as a project, possibly use a different butterfly with the stock or a GM TPS.

Thanks for your Input Alex, i really appriciate it man.

**shepherd79** · 04-19-2004, 12:16 PM

hey how are you going to bore out the TB? if you do that and it works, i want one.

**smufguy** · 04-19-2004, 12:57 PM

well, this is what i was thinking, I am machining axles and gears for my Senior project and defenitely some material would be left over, So besdies that, i am gonna order some more stock Aluminum outta my pocket and make my own custom throttle body, The I dont think its gonna be that hard, but like i said i am gonna try. If it all goes good and i get a hang of it, i might make a max of 5. I am doing this TB project because i figured why cant i do it since i am gonna be getting a turbo anyway and not be limited to it. I am also gonna get our stock Intake manifold bored out 'somehow' with some help from Mark (the dude at my college who drag races a CBX) to help me out with that.

Ill keep you in mind alex. I am thinking of even machining my own damn butterfly if i can so that i can do whatever i want as in the dimensions i want. But its just dreaming too high. Not only i am gonna get some experience in machining, i would get to use the school machine shop and hopefully get some experience working and making custom parts that can possibly go on my resume.

***Vanilla Sky*** · 04-19-2004, 06:13 PM

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...140%2D6163%2DD

hopefully that's a good link... that's a set of wilwood upgraded brakes for the covic/teg... four piston calipers, and it's a wilwood set... i've heard they are of a great quality

**smufguy** · 04-19-2004, 06:22 PM

Dang, that sure is a good looking piece of machinery, but what is the difference of this to the AEM big brake cause u can get the AEM big brake kit for half the price of this, yeah they are two piston rather than four.

Shit, now i am having second thoughts.

***Vanilla Sky*** · 04-19-2004, 06:26 PM

the AEM uses your old calipers, this one has brand new 4 piston calipers

**smufguy** · 04-20-2004, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky

the AEM uses your old calipers, this one has brand new 4 piston calipers

Like i said in my previous reply, the AEM does come with brand new twin piston caliper similar to stock but the wilwood is either 4 or 6.

ALso, Alex, do u think it would be bad if i use the front brake set up in the rear? I will be using an adjustable propotional valve, so it should not matter right?

**NXRacer** · 04-20-2004, 07:36 AM

There was a guy a while back who made his own custom dual caliper setup on an audi. He made all the brackets himself in his machine shop or something. Dual calipers are more of a bragging right then anything. Get yourself a good oversided caliper and it'll work just as good with less weight. If you go with an over sized rotor and a 4 piston caliper, you'll have more then enough braking power.

**shepherd79** · 04-20-2004, 07:42 AM

just to let you guys know. i got a hold of JDM twin calipers for our cars.
they are easy to find.

**smufguy** · 04-20-2004, 07:45 AM

well i dont see why a dual caliper is a mere braggin rights cause Bentlys come stock with dual calipers in the front.

THe reason i was going with Dual caliper design was not only to minimize the cost on the pads and use stock size pads and not worry about ordering special pads from Either Brembo or Wilwood everytime i needed them. Also my understanding is that our calipers are Dual piston Stock right? So using two of the Dual pistons is the same as a four piston instead of having to invest in a pair or $600 brake kit and $40 worth of brake pads that i cant get in a day (Which does not really matter, but just saying).

Like i said, the main reason for this project is to use the same idea of the 4 piston but use readily available parts like a rebuilt stock caliper which costs only $20 from autozone and good brake pads for less than half the cost of those expensive brake kits.

The only downfall of this project that i can think of is the time of machining the brackets, but the Aluminum 6061 is strong enough to get things bolted on to it and they are happy with vibrations. Also the other thing that concerns me is a good brake bleed and even distribution of brake pressure across the two calipers so that there is even brake pressure on both the calipers rather than one which might warp the disk IMO due to imbalance in the brake torque.

I dont know if i will ever do this until i get more researched on this, but its a possible idea nonetheless. If i can affored brane new Calipers which are nto that expensive, I should be able to avoid Brake seizure due to imbalance totally. But we will have to see.

Also to note that the 4 piston dual caliper set up on a Bentely, stops that 2ton+ heavy car under 135feet (14 meters). So this can stop our bearly a ton car at amazing distances.

Wilwood 4-Piston, Single caliper design

AEM 4-Piston, Single caliper

AEM 1-piston, Single caliper

Twin Caliper, 2 piston each set up on Bentley

Twin Caliper, 4-piston each setup on a Bently

Single caliper, 6 piston each set up (After market for Bentleys, Vipers, etc.

**smufguy** · 04-20-2004, 08:26 AM

Okay after reading thru the shop manual and reading the JDM twin piston caliper, i found out the obvious, shit our stock caliper is a single piston pos. well, seems like i have to ditch this project after all. This is really sad, but i am gonna get the Wilwood or the AEM 4 piston caliper depending on the price and maintanace issue.

For the rear, i might get the Big brake kit for the front from AEM and adapt the front Stock calipers to the rear if possible. I have to see how i can change the parking brake set up from the Drum to a disk, or just get the whole stuff from the SE-i. I dont know. There are not a lot of SE-is around here at the junkyard. So i have to see what i can do.

IF anyone has any questions about brake projects, i guess this thread pretty much summerizes why some things are possible, and why some are not. I hope new guys who are in search of something simliar to this might find their answers here. Thanks for your input people, i am glad i had feedback so that i could look into more things. Thanks a bunch again.

***Vanilla Sky*** · 04-20-2004, 09:37 AM

i myself will be getting the wilwood kit or is SS has them, i'll get thiers...

i think SS has a 6 caliper system, though... i just don't think we'll go fast enough to need one, though

**shepherd79** · 04-20-2004, 09:48 AM

smuff, i wasn't showing off. i just wanted to show you that it is very easy to find twin caliper setup.
combining twin caliper setup with drilled/sloted rotos and nice pads. plus SEI brakes on the back your car will stop on a dime.
with bigger calipers and rotors, you will have more chances to lock up the brakes and skid.
oh, i bet that Bently has ABS what is why it can stop the car without locking up the brakes. but if you turn the ABS off, that car won't even stop at 150ft.

**smufguy** · 04-20-2004, 10:01 AM

I know Alex, i was not commenting on your reply, It was Caleb's reply is what i was replying to.

I dont want him to misunderstand that the twin caliper set up compared to a twin piston set up is not just for show, it has purpose too. Thats why i posted pics right after i got the reply to see more and actually find out if they had a spec sheet of an actual data.

PS: Alex, if you are talking about the caliper set up on the JDM 3g, its a twin piston and not a twin caliper like u say