MODIFICATION, COLD AIR INDUCTION

[TeKKnoTeKK]

Ok people lets hear some ideas......here are some so far, lets put all the ideas together and then we can see what do about making them a reality.

Hydrogen system.....need to get some more details first, then I will post how this works.

Air intake A/C....This would basically be an air conditioner for the air being sucked into the engine. You could use freon or some other means to get the air cold, from there, once the air is nice and chilly it is pumped into the intake system.

Water cooled system....I remember someone on the board presenting this idea, whoever you are come forward please. Accord7SE_i?

Keep the ideas coming and if you would like, build on these.

[Sean]

have at it.

[A20A1]

CARB MANIFOLD COOLER

Just as coolant can be used to heat the carb when the motor is cool. I'm thinking of cooling the carb while the motor is hot.

Lets start off by letting you know why the carb and manifold needs to be heated.
When you first start the car even when the temperature isn't that cold outside, the fuel exits the carb in drops. For the drops to enter into the intake stream and from there into the combustion chamber, it must be light enough for it to be moved by the air.
If you can imagine a few drops of water on the surface of a table... try to move it a few inches by blowing on it. Notice how it moves slower then the air. Well since the fuel is moving slower in the intake manifold less fuel then air will reach the combustion chamber decreasing power during normal operation but also causing hard starting conditions.

If you turn the fuel into vapor by heating it then the fuel can move quicker inside the manifold thus keeping the proper air fuel mixture. fuel and air speed is also the reason a manifold flow and velocity will increase power. Textured manifolds help kick up fuel into the air steam, Fuel likes to stick more on very smooth surfaces.

now after 30 min. of driving the carb and manifold is more then hot enough to heat the fuel as well as the intake air. Well if you've been around you already know that cold air = better performance. For the stock carb intake you get a free but restrictive cold air intake... it's good for low rpm driving. if you flip the lid you get less restriction and more air but its hotter... so if you are going to keep the lid fliped you either need to bring cold air in or cool the air that you are using.

I'd go for both options but just for the sake of discussion I'm going to attempt to cool the maniflod which would then cool the air.


I've already disconnected the manifold heater but performance is limited to 10 mins after the car has been started and it lasts for maybe another 10 mins before the manifold is starts getting hotter from the head and block.

another idea the pursue is the "COOL CAN" used on some domestic to cool the fuel running to the carb. But overcooling can be a problem

[pimp86LX]

hmm who was that guy who was talkin about liquid cooling?

a custom intake or just the manifold with liquid plumbing to keep things cool would be so neat

[Sean]

ok but keep in mind cooler fuel is harder to shear into atomized droplets. and this is what im talking about lets get the ball rolling.

[pimp86LX]

right right..mah bad....hmm quite a dilly of a pickle

[Sean]

i would focus on building a Ram Air system similar to those found on domestic cars like the grand prix or even the firebird. they work very well. its much better than a CIA becuase the pressure form the vehicle speed will act to supercharge the incoming air charge.

this is just my 2 cents though.

[bobafett]

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3291

i am thinking that would be tough to do though... the only way i can see to effectively "chill" the air, would be with TEC (peltier) coolers... and then you are into mega $$$$ and tons of power sucking little time bombs under your hood!

the coldest that a water cooled unit cold get the water, is the temp under the hood, plus wind chill factor, it wouldnt really cool it down much.

unless you have some magic method of chilling the water, it can only be as cold as your surrounding air (assuming you dissapate ALL the heat)

and most h20 setups are fairly large as well

anyway, i would love to kick this idea around, cause i am sure you guys know MUCH more than me about custom car projects, but i would be happy to lend you my knowledge of watercooling,

[Sean]

i know yr interested in COLD AIR but the fact is ram air has sevral advantages. it forces air in with vehicle speed. its not COlD AIR buts its much cooler than the engine bay air. cooling the intake manifold doesn;t really seem to offer enough gains to be cost effective. where as ram air could offer upto 10 hp with minimal BS involved. the cowl space look to be big enough for this to work.

[AccordSi]

Funstick has a major point. Cool air from above the hood could defintiely work in a ram air situation. I've actually toyed with the idea of making an aluminum box around the DCOEs with a hood scoop placed directly above the the box. When the hood is closed the onrushing air would become entrapped in the box within direct range of the carbs. I believe the cool air in the box would make about 5 more horses at least. What I was concerned about though, is the effect of rain water getting into the box and being sucked into the engine.

[Sean]

if thats yr concern make sure theres some sort of venting on the bottom of the air box

[AZmike]

how cold were you guys hoping to get the air? colder than the ambient temperature? if that's the case, you're only going to waste energy trying to cool it off. i don't mean to rain on your parade, but it's impossible to cool something off without using more energy. so unless you want to just pull cooler outside air into the engine, you're just wasting your time.

[Sean]

well the AIR GAP desing started becuaase hot enigne oil form the lifter valley spalshs onto the bottom of the intake manifold heating up the air charge. accords do not have the problem the manifold is seprated form the engine. ram air ram air.

[Sean]

read the otehr cooler air topic i am advocating ram air R/D.

[87pimpsterdocious]

I don't know where the piping could be run that would be in a position to "ram air" into and through the whole system. It could be placed lower, like right above the ground, but then there are water complications also. This sounds like a great idea so lets keep it up because there are many more knowledgable people around here (especially more than me)!

[AZmike]

I've got a picture, but I can't post it myself. It might be of some help. It shows the air pressure distribution around the car moving from the side (I don't know at what speed, but it still shows where intakes should work best, especailly if you're considering ram air.

If someone else would like to post it I could send it their way.

[bobafett]

i have a question first off..

would a ram air setup be a replacement to the intake system that comes off the throttle body??

and also, for this to work, would it involve cutting up the car? or is there a place we could add one without modifying the hood?

btw hood scoops are badass.. i wouldnt mind one! lol

[87pimpsterdocious]

89lxi if you send it to me i'll post it! [email protected]

[AZmike]

Sent. It doesn't list speed or give an units of measure, but it should still help with rough ideas.

[87pimpsterdocious]

Here it is: Lookes like theirs a spike toward the front bumper (the grill area) so perhaps a ram air there would work the best.

[Hoshizakido]

ok i was doing some thinking and i looked at the possibility of removing the passenger side turnsignal. Its not a big hole but it runs straight into the area where cold air usually runs. If you could get the piping to run straight to the light in the bumper it would inturn be forcing more air in.

[GreenMachine]

Or use those little vent panels below the front blinker lights on either side of the bumper.
I have one on the intake side running up beside the battery to the intake pipe, before it ran just right into carb airbox, I noticed a diff with it. It would be good to use some kinda of funnel at the tube to make it more effective, Or custom make a hole in the bumper.

[TeKKnoTeKK]

Well the amount of air is kind of irrelevant....the stock ECU will only tell the engine to suck so much air (that is the main reason you can get better times closer to sea level, because of the air density), the goal here is for colder air, not necissarily more air. Keep the ideas coming guys.

[TeKKnoTeKK]

very nice bro....looks awesome, good job on that.

[Sean]

how are you getting ait to that ?? some photo's of the ducting and filtering please.