2g swap

[Coy]

from what id guess without having to do a rewire or any other major wireing mods the engines availible for a 2g would be (us engines) the et1, et2, and the es1. i cant seem to find any specs on any of these engines so im not too sure which would be an upgrade or if these are the only possibilities. i know with enough cash i could put any engine in, but i want to use the stock wiring and mounts.
if there are any other engines that i didnt know about let me know. im kinda pushin towards the dual carb es1, but i dont know if itd be an upgrade or what.

[PhydeauX]

Don't bother with the es1, if you want the dual carbed prelude engine use the et2. Your going to have to rewire what ever engine you want to swap. You can toss the a20a in you list as well. They all mount in the same spot. The main wireing is almost the same in all of the engines. Its the emissions wireing thats going to get you. Not much you can do about that if your in an emissions controled area. If not you can just eliminate it or go with a weber or something.

andy

[88accordhb]

you have more torque with your a20a1, E series suck. someone on here has a 2nd gen accord BT motor. that's the first version of the a20a3 me tinks. but i don't think any of those will be worth your time.

engine specs here
http://www.integra.orcon.net.nz/engines

[Coy]

got it.

i dont see why i shouldnt go with the es1 or et2. i mean i kinda want something a little better but i dont plan on building the car for performance. personally i like the whole look of the sidedraft.

as far as emissions go, im in nebraska and as of now its no big deal. as long as i got a cat on it its good to go. shit i could hollow the cat if i wanted to. BTW, would that make it loud as fuck if i did that? i was thinking about doing that, but i dont want the car louder.

i was kinda hopin to find a carb'd DOHC engine to slap in it. i dont know if there are any available in the states though.

[PhydeauX]

Well the a20 has the most displacement. It will make the most power with the least mods. The ET makes more power then the es and is also more common. It doesn't have the cvcc system and its 3rd carb to deal with as well.

andy

[Coy]

that brings up another question...WTF is CVCC? and im not too sure what your talking about with the 3rd carb

the a20 is carb'd isnt it?

[PhydeauX]

cvcc stands for controled vortex combustion chamber or something along those lines. Its a straife charge system using a seperate prechamber where a leaner mixture is ignited first. It results in a cleaner burn and probably some fuel econmy benefits. I'm not an expert on the system, I had a cvcc head apart once and thats it. On the es2 the seperate mixture comes from a 3rd barrel in the carb. Take a look at the carb on your 85 some time, there is a 3rd pencil sized barrel on the valve cover side of the carb, this feeds the cvcc system. On the es1 they couldn't just add a barrel to a su carb so a 3rd carb had to be added. Its a very tiny thing sits inbetween and slightly under the other two carbs. If you take the air filter off you can see the opening for it, it also has a throat you could choke with a pencil.

The a20 came in 2 versions in the us a20a1 (carbed) and a20a3 (efi)

andy

[Coy]

aw, i see.

well i think i may have devised a plan...but some of the details im just theorizing and such. i want an a20a3 from a car originally equipped with an auto tranny, a manual tranny, and an intake manifold/carbs from a et2.

now the part im not too sure about is if i want to go with the tranny from an efi or a carb engine and the big thing im wondering about is if i can convert an efi engine to carb by simply swapping the IM and whichever electronics arent plug and play. i dont know where the wiring issues come into play on the conversion to EFI in my 85. i hope that its only the IM and TB. i was guessing that i could just swap the misc sensors and such from the carbd engine.

the reason for the auto engine would be because typically speaking they have more aggresive heads, although im not completely sure if thats the case here and further speaking i would guess that the efi engine would be overall more aggresive. correct me if im wrong on any of this.

[PhydeauX]

You cant put the et manifold on the a20. You can convert it to carb by putting a carb manifold on it but the et manifold does not fit. The only readlily available carb manifold you can put on the a20a3 is one from an a20a1.

andy

[Coy]

id guess that the bolt patterns are different on the manifolds.

so the a1 manifold will bolt to the a3, but will their be any known wiring issues cause i still dont think i want to rewire the bay.

speaking of rewiring the bay, id thought about doing that since i can get an a3 harness for fifty bucks. that wouldnt include rewiring the lights and things like that. i dont know if id have to rewire every single thing under the dash and all the little modules scattered through the car.

[night]

im confused.... you want a sidedraft prelude setup, or the 2L downdraft?

[ET2]

The et2 head will bolt to a20 block then you can run dual side draft webers dcoe's, and manifold can still be had for around 250-300 dollars

[night]

The et2 head will bolt to a20 block then you can run dual side draft webers dcoe's, and manifold can still be had for around 250-300 dollars

unless the planet has changed since i last checked, that gets a :thumbdown

[Coy]

so, there is a side draft dual carb on the 20 if im comprehending this right.
cool.
ok i was thinking now that it would prolly be a better swap if i could go to a B20 from a Si lude. i dont jknow if those came carb'd or if id have to rewire though.

whats the 20 sidedraft come in exactly and would it be a direct fit or a rewire job?

[night]

20 = 2.0 i assume ??

the carb lude is a 1.8. the block and head are not the same. maybe youve seen the oil jet on these motors before, but if not, take my word for it. that jet is on the other side of the head bolt in the 2L engines. otherwise they are the exact same, cept for that key 'feature'.

and also, trust me on this. you do not want those sidedraft carbs. they are the biggest pain in the ass, pos's honda ever put on their cars. i would suggest anything b4 telling u to mess with those things.

you really should just put the carb 3gen accord motor in with the downdraft, then look at a custom weber setup or something later.

[Coy]

ok, fine...:-P no sidedraft.

but should i go for a FI motor with a carb manifold or would that make any difference

[night]

higher compression pistons. no reason not to.

[rjudgey]

Night buddy where you been hiding all the research i've done for five years and your talking out your arse cause you don't come and visit us regularily enough!! Their were two block types used by Honda early 83-85 blocks have your original engine in and yes the only heads that will fit that becuase of the oil control jet is an ET1/ES/ES1/ES2 and early 83-85 ET now from 86 with the advent of The 3G accord and A20 Honda decided to use a modified block from the earlier preludes and accords, they added a slightly bigger oil feed but what they also did was they did this in two different sizes all blocks from 86-89 were the same regardless of model, A18 was 1.8 A20 was 2.0litre Honda went and confused things a little as a fw of these modified blocks also had BT code and ET and ET2 codes best to go by year or newer A18/A20 codes, A18 and A20 coded engines you can swap heads/blocks, but the earlier types you can still use all internal parts still as they are still the same, You can even bore out a ET/ES to 2.0litre spec using A20 pistons, but you have to use a Felpro head gasket to have big enough combustion chamber seal rings to fit the pistons. Proof of the pudding is in the eating my 14.6 second 2g lude has in it a A18 Head on a A20A4 block which fit perfectly.

Now with that confuson out the way the way i would go would be A20A1 engine re-build it blue print it, shave the block and head slightly the head little bit more than block, this will raise the CR use Sealed power pistons, get a mild cam, carb downdraught manifold from A20A1 flow it internaly same with the head, then a pierce manifolds weber conversion plate and fit a Weber DGAS 38/38 carb, that will sort you out, gear box, get the A20 tranny, then find a 1st gen TEG box and swap the gearboxes over so that the teg box goes onto the A20 bellhousing, this will give you much more aggressive gearing, if you like motorway driving retain the accord 5th gear as the Teg 5th gear is a little tiring after 50 miles!! same ratio as 4th gear in the A20 so like driving around in 4th all the time!! Thats what i'm going to do in mine as it's driving me nuts!! Now that little package shouldn't cost a huge amount but the increase in power will be pretty substantial at least about 140-150bhp depending on your exhaust system and the amount of head work you do and the cam duration too. Any more power and you'l have to switch to twin Weber DCOE's which will give you between 150-230bhp depending on how serious you wanna get!! as well as more money!!

[rjudgey]

Wiring theirs no reason why you can't just use all the existing wiring that you have in your engine, the dizzy, alternator etc, all mount in the same place you just need to make sure you use all the same mounts and brackets etc. only thing that may be a slight prob is you'll have to swtich the dizzy mount from your accord head and fit that onto the A20A1 head, which engine do you have at the moment? If it's an ET1 might be worth checking out REdline manifolds as they do a Weber twin carb conversion kit still, and you would get more power gain by fitting that on and then maybe converting your old block to 2.0litre spec later on. Tell us what code it is you have.

[night]

i gave up on iron blocks a long time ago anyway. just sick of working on the same damn motors after 6 years.

[rjudgey]

well their not the best but their's still an easy 200bhp you can squeeze outta them!! So what you using in yours these days then? B20A or B16 family?

[Coy]

wow, thats alot of info there man.

but much more than i needed although appreciated all the same. ive got an es2, and i just want a somewhat simple swap. id thought about rewiring the bay for an EFI engine but im not sure if ill have enough time to rewire since ive never done it before and winter is approaching quickly and the accord is my only car. im still somewhat thinking of rewireing, but i dont know how difficult it would be and i dont want to rewire unless i go with to a DOHC (the b20 from the lude) but i dont know if its a direct fit mount wise. if the dual cam idea flops then ill prolly go with an A20A3 with an A1 intake manifold, and as far as gearing goes im still not sure if i want to go with a tranny from a carby or an EFI because more than likely ill buy the tranny separately since the engine that i am getting will originally have an auto.

[rjudgey]

keep existing ones, not worth the hassle, plus switching to Honda PGM-Fi is not worth wasting time and money on, if you want FI then get a custom setup but you'll also need to change/mod the tank, uprate all the fuel lines and have high pressure joints, change the pump and regulator and add a return pipe to the tank. Stick with the carbs and get a Weber DGV or DGAS two types 32/36 for economy and bit more oomph or go with 38/38 for power or if your really mad twin DCOE's!! As for Tranny i'd still recommend making a hybrid from an accord box and a teg box you won't be dissapointed!!
Also B20A will be difficult to fit it's a bigger engine i think you'll have clearance problems on the hood as well as at the front near the rad, the side mount will locate, but the rear and front and lower and top mounts i really wouldn't have thought would just line up i think it would be a bit too involving, also if you did try a B20A swap a A20A1 carb manifold will fit so just run the B20A on carbs.
P.S it's worth getting a standalone igntion system, you can make a DIY crank fired system with parts from Ford and buy a DIY programable chip to control it, or you could buy MSD or Crane or Electromotive system as well if you fancy a brand name instead!!

[Coy]

ok, so the b20 would be a little or a lot close to the hood and radiator? i crave DOHC power again. if the clearance issues arent a problem and i can use my stock wiring harness then it sounds good. especially since i can carb it.

i mean, if all i have to get is the a20 manifold and the b20 mounts and such then it sounds good to go. if its way too close to the radiator i can prolly just find a radiator from another honda, but with the hood clearance issue id have to figure something out and get a few details on it then i bet i could do something about it. what i mean by details would be is the valve cover too close, or is it the carbs or what? on my 1g crx there was supposed clearance issues with the vavlve cover and camgear cover, but i didnt have any problems at all. the only problem we had on it was the bad upper strut mounts and we fixed that by replacing them....but yeah.

*edit* when i speak of the b20 im talkin about the usdm b20 from the late eighties prelude, just to make things clearer

[rjudgey]

well thats just gone and buggered things up then!! That won't work at all!!! You need a B20A from a 2g prelude from mid eighties not late eighties as in the 3rd gen lude their completely different engine and lean a different way!!