I will double check that if i dont see the problem with the head off but we did check the TDC with the cam timing and it was fine. But the leak down test dont lie when the cams are out all the valves should be closed and unless the headgasket blew which i wish was the case im still doubfull since the compressed air blew out the inlet filter for the turbo.
I wish i had a bad injector! LOL
Rob .......... You should of gone stock! lol
Maurice
This is what i get for not doing a ghetto! LOL.....Im dying to pull the head off and i wanted to do it tonight but i forgot i have to undo the turbo manifold and stuff. I am clueless but if i did bend some valves i want to know how because i cant thing of any concept that would justify the timing to be that far off. Damn mid-terms are killing me and i will be out of state until sunday then my last mid-term is monday night so hopefully tuesday i will have the full spec on damage.
****I think i may actually know what happened now. I just got off the phone with my friend Nick that is a master mechanic and my car was at his shop when this happened. I totally forgot about how he snapped my intake cam but like Nick said he proabably set the head on w/o it set at TDC and bent the intake valve/snapped the cam because it was out of timing. This is just a theory but it makes so much more sence now because the car fired up on 3 cylinders to begin with and if the cam timing was the issue then all the valves would have this problem. I sure hope this is right because it make a hell of a lot more sense to me and explains why he broke a cam shaft. And i just went to look at my crowers and they are much bigger lobes giving much less room for timing errors. So im quite sure i got my answer now i just got to confront the machinist and get him to fix it.
Last edited by RobT5580; 10-12-2004 at 05:39 PM.
wow, i would love to see a pic of a broken camshaft. Never seen or heard of one. You are first in breaking a cam shaft too bro. Nice touch.
I hear you about the midterms and stuff. I dont wanna say i pity you, but i fell very bad because you are in the middle of soo many important things going on in your life. All i can say is that you got my good wishes and my prayers bro. You will defenitely get this thing going.
He broke it at the shop spinning it by hand so im pretty sure that would be when the piston hit the valves. I hear of people breaking vtec cams once in awhile but not ls cams although this was because of human error.
It just makes me mad because my car most likely would be running right now and i would be happy and not as stressed. I have been good about not touching the car and studying but the problem bothered me until last night since there was no explanation. But no that i know why im quite sure when i get the head off it will show a severely bent set of valves in cylinder 3 and partially in 4. Im also going to fight to get some money back to pay for the AEM tune since it was the machinists stupidity. I would not normally pass the blame like this since i supplied the parts but when you do this for a living and know you using very aggressive cams with a higher lift and the timing marks dont line up to begin with then you have a problem. At that point he should have called me and asked for the stock cams and gears. I know i certainly would have worried about what happened and im by far no expert.
I broke a B20 cam too!! LOL but, i was being idiotic, instead of being patient and removing the caps one by one (u know they'r stuck sometimes) i removed the timing sensor and inserted a screwdriver inside the cam and lifted a few caps off then snap!
That was the day i learned cams are Hollow...doh! ...looked like it was from a 'v' engine
Nevermind tho Rob ure still my idoll, and i forgive u for inflicting this amount of pain to us all!!
My silly elimination questions.
Skimmed too far?
Gasket too thin + skimming?
Rods too long?
Mark on new flywheel in the right place?
Wrist pins sit in the same place on the pistons as stock?
Rob, wich cam gear do you take for your engine? I mean, from wich engine?
i was supposed to do some custom camgear with my oem b20a camgear.
have you changed all the other gear to fit your adjustable camgear?
My Baby; Honda Accord 86 S, B20A JDM
My Daily; Honda Accord 08 EX-L, K24Z3
My 86 custom build thread
Carotman got it from the USDM 4th gen accord, the F22 motor. Its a SOHC by the way.Originally Posted by L3G10N
Actually carotman has my old ones that Mike Lee had custom made and im running the 90-93 Accord gears. They are not the problem and they are a direct match. My problem was caused by the machine shop not being careful with the aggresive Crower cams that i had in the b20a when he was setting it up. They were slightly off degree wise and my theory is he was off a bit and thats how he snapped my intake crower cam. He told me it was from a head stud but i know that is not how it happened. So im going to start pulling the head tonight since i just flew back home from Michigan. I hope to get it back to the shop on tuesday so he can order the valves he damaged. Somewhat i blame myself but even im not stupid enough to turn an engine over when the timing does not line up. Plus the crowers had a lot more lift on them increasing the contact risk. I totally blame him for not calling me because i would have swapped them out right away which is what i did when i saw the problem before i picked it up. So this was done before the engine even left the shop.
damn, man Im sorry to hear about the set back. you must really not trust that shop now. your setup is awe inspiring, just total awesome.
what valve springs are you using?
The valve train is all from Ferrea and im still trying to fix the problem so i can get it running. Hopefully friday i can put the head back on and do another leak down test. I have a feeling though i have a serious problem that may resort to me using my spare block but i have to pin point the problem first. So hopefully things go better than they have and i can get this worked out. Even though its a good thing no valves are damaged (or appear to be) i would have preffered to have a bad valve and know what my problem was. Now im back at the drawing board trying to figure out what is going on.
well rob have you figured it out yet or is there still too much going on to pull the motor? Just curious is all. good luck.
Do you have any advice for me, Im revamping the turbo prject, Im going with the same header with the t25 flange but rather than us ehte TA34 tom sold the kit with Im going to use the DISCO POTATO gt28rs. Ill go stock compression, stanless valves, eagle rods, aftermarket pistons, new sleeves and all that block prep (wet kit or dry kit for the sleeves?) Should i go wioth the obd1 or stick with it the way it is? Whats your favorite emu? You used aem obviously. thanks man and good luck
am i right in thinking with OBD1 we can tune it with the laptop? there fore u would use OBD1 to retard the timing under boost hence thats why u'd need it?
I thought we couldn't resleeve the our B20? thought i'd heard it was closed deck?
Sorry to but in mykwikcoupe, i'm also doing this route B20turbo and since there's little for us b20's i thought i'd ask.
Also, the Boomslang harness converts our harness at the ecu end right? 2 to 3 plugs.
as far as resleeving goes, I was under the impression they'd just hone out the stocker sleeves and press new ones in. I could be misinformed. Wouldnt be the first time. Whats all involved with the obd1 conversion? New sensors or just changing pins around? Whats a boomslang harness? I just finished looking at the aem ems site and theres no application for our cars of corse. Which one is the proper one? Sounds like a sweet unit, no extra boost controller, no extra costs for the datalogging, timing mods, and all that jazz.
which turbo and what power are you looking for civvy? how far along are you. I know I started about the same time rob did and man am I jealous. I took a back seat to life and just starting to get back into my projects only this time with a bdget in mind
Wow Rob I wanted to cry for you when I started to read this.Well it's the game.I know some of us know the feeling of being let down.And yes you should have been ghetto like me LOL.I love my little gforce and spool and bov.I swear if I never had the wife and kids I would live in my car for those reasons LOL.
Stop bench racing and pick up a wrench
I know my spelling sucks and I suck with computers deal with it.
I'm in the middle of a EFI swap so a mile bhind u i should think but, knowledge i have is from PGMFI.org and 3g ludes over on preludepower.com.
I know nothing about aem ems? what is it?
I'm planning to run the stock engine on about 6-7 psi. read the how to on the 3gLude forum too.
the original kit i bought was set up to run about 9 spi. i think its just not going to be enough for me so Im going more boost. If you want you can send me a pm if your interested in my kit. new in box ready to bolt on complete with hks evc4, apexi safc, tial 35mm wastegate, hks ssbov, manifold, turbo, upgraded downpipe, oil lines, the whole nine just need tio install it. if not ill piece it together with new parts to finish in a different direction
Sorry to hijack your thread rob. if you want I can start another. The aem ems is the new ecu youd use for tunning the engine. If lets your control and setup everything
Mike, I would do the obd1 conversion so you could run a better ecu and you can use a chipped stock honda ecu from an obd1 car if you want to save money. Tuning is the key when it comes to boost so you should make your tuning as easy as possible. There are many ways to do it but you have to work within your budget. I highly recommend a wideband O2 and if you not using a logging laptop then get the aem gauge type so you can read you air/fuel acurately.
I pulled the head and everything looked good valve wise but i know it had to be leaking from the valves. The machinist said it still can be bent and im running ferrea dual valve springs that are stiffer. So he is going to pull the valves and check for bent ones. If it comes back the same i will bolt it on and do another leak down test and if that fails i will mess with the stock b20a i have. But the compressed air was blowing right out the inlet filter on the turbo even with the cams out which closed all the valves so it was defintaly coming from an open valve. This is what i get for not using the shop i wanted to because i know they would have checked every clearance etc and would have modified the crower cams to work/fit the way they should have.
As for the EMS im amazed with what i saw so far. Its a new ECU with data logging and is fully upgradable when new versions come out. It has many features such as built in boost control, sensor readouts for trouble shooting, AFR logging, and a lot more good stuff. Basically you can control almost anything like your fan control can be changed to however long you want it to run and when. So i hope things get take care of soon so i can attempt to start it.
Cracked head?
Well i guess its good news that no valves are bent but that leads me now to think the head gasket is leaking between chambers 3 & 4. Im running out of ideas hear and went on some assumptions before and all were wrong. But i do know the leak down test don't like cylinder 3 was leaking bad. So im going to bolt just the head on and do another test this time no manifolds so i can hopefully pin point the problem. I did notice the copper o-rings and im not pleased at how cylinder 3 was seated. Some parts were low and others high so that could be my problem at this point. And as far as a cracked head i dont see any signs of that and the compressed air cam out of the exhaust manifold meaning and open valve. And that would hold true if it is leaking bad between those two cylinders.
So if it is the copper o-ring im going to go with the original plan and run the stock gasket. But the machine shop will have to machine my spare block because i cant use a stock headgasket with the oring. I kinda prefer to do this because i dont think his o-ring job was good enough and i want to eliminate Mike Lee's over bore so i dont have piston slap when its cold.
well rob im kinda glad to hear it wasnt the head but I know it doesnt help hearing that your unhapppy with the work you had done to it in the first place. Is it because of the rush or just poor quality from the shops? Youd certainly be the one to know, is it possible to resleeve the b20a even though its a closed deck?
http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/sleeving.html
Yeah, Surprisingly this shop is known to be good at sleeving honda blocks. That is actually what he does with all honda blocks until he saw mine was closed deck. As for the o-ring i can say it was not neither of our main choices. I wanted the 3 layer metal but cometic wont produce it so i had a copper made just in-case and that is what he wanted to use as a back up. But i feel confident the OEM honda one will be fine so if i have a problem then thats what will happen. The o-ring process was a pain and its not something they do very often. The job should not have been a rush job given he took 3 months (Should have been one month) but i showed up frequently to make sure i was not getting the run around.
So hopefully i get a legitamate answer soon on what went wrong and the only thing i could concieve of is maybe a valve was stuck open. But i have a plan if the o-ring is the problem and i would prefer to start fresh and the machine work will be straight forward on that so he shouldnt be able to screw that up. Next time i will wait for the other shop and pay the extra money even if this was not my shops error. I just didnt like the run arounds and crap granted most shops dont meet deadlines in this business. So if i can find time this weekend i will slap the head on and do some tests.
Oh word of advise if you ever sleeve a block use the best company possible. I have heard nightmare stories of sleeves sinking if dont wrong. I hear golden eagle is good but you should be able to find other shops on the west coast just make sure you see living proof of a good job.
now were talking!
JDM CONCEPTwww.jdmconcept.com
1989 Honda Integra LS 134whp/108lbs tq
1991 Honda Legend 163whp/163lbs tq
1991 Honda Integra LS-Special
Found out i have some bad rings in cylinder 3 and 4 so im going to take advantage of this and start over with my spare block. This block came from Mike Lee and have a bigger bore than i want so im going to start fresh. I assume the rings got washed out from when he tried to get his car running and then us trying to start my car. I did ask the shop to check everything on Mike's block and wish this was not over looked. So hopefully i will get it back in a week or so depending on when i get the rings.
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