help ....carb choke question ?

[Neuspeed87lx]

k ... i just bought my 87 lx .... in the mornings it idles like shit .... after its warm its fine ... little bit of a rough idle but not bad .... and on the highway at like 55 or above the car kinda hesitates .... kinda like the brakes are being applied .... so i checked things out .... the linkage from the choke is broken so it just stayes in the same place all the time .... half open .... or half closed .... i know that will cause my rough idle in the moring but would that also make the car hesitate on the highway seeing as the choke plate is staying half closed ?

[A20A1]

Yes, the CHOKE Chokes the engine
except you don't want it after the car has warmed up or it will just reduce power.

It's like how NASCAR adds restrictor plates to decrease the power of the motors.
...or at least I think thats what they do.


Do you plan to replace the choke or linkage or are you able to remove it?
Removing it will effect your cold Idle though.

[Neuspeed87lx]

not sure what im going to do.... do they just sell a kit to fix the choke ? if not im just gona remove it ....

[keruhas184]

Thanks to cold weather, my carb has been acting up too. It wouldn't drop fast idle, or after warming up it would rev up to 4k. Now when starting it would start and shut off right away, so I have to floor it a bit for idle to engage. I just went for a ride, and its also bogging down, as though the choke isn't working properly or the secondary isn't opening...

I poured a bit of carb cleaner a week ago, and that seemed to help a bit... But I'm not sure what to look at... carb seemed fine this summer. I got a civic box, so maybe carb is freezing over? Could I counteract it by placing that heater hose from stock airbox beside the carb (its angled away from the carb right now). Also, my clutch and alt are pretty much gone, so Im not sure if thats really the problem instead of the carb. But those two get worse little by little, not sporadically... damn, i wish I had efi .

[A20A1]

well first off you want to make your entire cooling system is working properly... the belts hoses and water pump and thermostat.

Then make sure the fluid is full and that the right mixture of coolant to water is in the car for the winter environment.

The coolant does flow thru the carb... it also heats the base of the intake manifold to help resist fuel drop-out in cold...

If the hot air door is open don't expect much power... cause your motor will basicly be breathing thru a straw...

The hot air doo should be functioning properly though this will help lessen the engine warm up time... but you need to have the hot air hose connected to the air filter from the exhaust manifold heat shield in order to pick up the hot air.

[keruhas184]

Mike, you're a genius . I know that i have like 80/20 coolant water mixture there right now. I'm gonna replace the thermostat, drain, flush, bleed and and refill it with 50/50. Other than that the cooling system has been rock stable and probably better than stock having better airflow with the ac system out.

[accordlxi2.0]

i hate carbs, espicially during the winter.
i disabled that shit, and just used my foot.

you know when my alt. was out on my 86, it would rev, the worse the alt, the higher the rpms.

just drian some out thru the radiator.

[njpeter]

i took a stab and replaced the choke pull off diaphram today..solved my am stuttering problem, the diaphram was shot ( and that little vac hole was clogged with bits of the rubber or something that looked like it). Woo-hoo, no more smart assed comments from the parking valet (the wife drives old whitey(87lx) now). I urge anybody diving into carb stuff to get a factory manual, it';s not that big of a mystery when the systems are all laid out. Without the manual, there are a great many hoses, all with somewhat questionable functions

Overall I haven't had much trouble with the carbs, at least nothing that some gumout couldn't fix. A hot battery and good contact helps more then you can imagine in the winter, fuel injection isn't any better in this regard of cold starts, and I think a little worse.

My first FI accord is waiting..sunroof begging to see some sky, but for now..she's a parts car, I did just buy her for her shoes ( alloy's with new michelins) after all.

[accordlxi2.0]

glad you figured that out.

[Neuspeed87lx]

njpeter.... i need the choke pull off too .... where did you get a new one ?

[njpeter]

, I pulled the sucker apart today, the rubber coating came off the cloth, but in a pnich a little silicon seal _might_ do the job.

it's rather easy to get off. A good cross point screwriver and a 1/4 inch flatblade to pry the connection apart (you have to pull one of the fast idle cams out of the way.

big bucks at the dealer for sure, head to the boneyard.

[keruhas184]

I haven't changed the coolant yet, but today isn't that cold, and that shouldn't be the issue.

So I add some oil and start her up today. She warms up and I add some gas to drop the idle, but she just revs higher and higher. OK. I give it more gas a few more times but it just stays at 3500-4000. OK, so I say screw it and shut her off to start up with low idle. She shut off and sputters with backfire for 2 more seconds. I wait 10s. and crank to start her, but she just doesn't start. The motor turns over, but it seems like there is no spark coming in. I tried cranking every 2-5 min, and still no luck. So I went to her, and left her in the parking lot.

Now, its raining out and I know my dizzy gasket needs replacing, but the motor was working fine before I shut her down, so it can't be ignition related, or can it? It seems like some kind of carb problem, but why can't I start her back up? Did I overflood it? Same thing happened before, and I just came back the next day and it started fine, so I'm hoping that's what gonna happen tomorrow.

Any input would be appreciated, because the car is in better condition than it ever was except for this idle/carb/ignition? problem, most of which I'm gonna fix but I want to make sure I have it all figured out and replace everything that is broken.

[njpeter]

this is really sounding like a vac leak, but it's small, and hard to find. The idel control system is a bit tricky, I'd say look at the FAQ, I believe there are some pics there.

on a no-start, you gotta do the checklist, or you are just so screwed..so here it is...at least my version.

1-got fuel? pump the gas pedal a few times, remove airbox cover and sniff, nasty?..good! Sit in teh beast nie and quiet, turn key to run position, did you hear the fuel pump?, fuel pumps sometimes fail to provide any more fuel then is needed for idle..tricky to diagnose, nasty to change, which has made all of us better at changing them. I carry a spare fuel pump also.( I work 50 miles from home)

2-got big fat spark? ( big and fat)I tore out some hair ( btw I got a vind dieselhaircut) on a weak coil last year that "looked" good, but boy was I off on that call..the coil was farked, I took a coil of my "running" accord and tried it..boom!..right up first turn of the ley. Compared to the running coil the other one was just nuthin at all. I've now seen this happen on all my cars, and sorry for those of you I had to outbid on ebay for ignition coils. I carry (a spare) one in my car, just in case.

3-engine crank sound "normal", sorry, can't help here, but if the engine seems to really be spinning fast(er), you might have spun the timing belt(sorry)

4-assuming it does start..typically I've found issues with nasty high idle when the thottle cable is too tightly adjusted or a vac line has come undone, vital area in and around the belts, have a look at all of the larger hoses, after a backfire incident (because I was pouring gas in the car on the car with the bad coil (did I mention I melted the cat? with gumout?)one of the breathers popped off, and I couldn't keep it ruinning at idle at all.


epiloge....
But only tread into turning screws around the carb, unless you've alraedy been in there, you're in for a real time getting things just so again, doable, but you'll be in tehre a few times to do it. Idle speed after the fast idle pull off comes on is only slightly less complicated then going to the moon. Think of a ball riding on a column of air, a dozen controls, and you're blindfolded. Assuming that you have the stock carb?, do you?, I figure those of you that have webers know all about the little things that annoy, I do not. I have to deal with emission inspection.

when things are right, they start right up, I trained on mowers, and you learn double quick to get em right.

charge up the battery and we'll give it a try tomorrow...

[keruhas184]

It WAS working fine (ignition and fuel) until I manually shut it off. Most of the vac lines were changed less than a year ago. Timing belt - I'll have to check. I'm not going to adjust the carb other than stop throttle screw. The car itself worked great during the summer when it was dry and hot. I know I have more than 1 problem here, but I'm just trying to understand why it wouldn't start up with ignition and fuel being fine and the motor cranking...

[njpeter]

then I gotta ask the really dumb question, getting pretty chilly at night eh? ( 50's here in NJ, my valve seals area really smoking now)..have you checked that the choke is closing?..like I said..dumb, dumb, dumb. Don't let the ignition off the hook so quick either, cracked distributor rotor is there too...

[A20A1]

Could havwe fouled a spark plug... I have big problems getting my car started cause of the rich conditions needed to maintain idle, thats why I use my +4's and the big coil.

When you reved high it could have been from the extra richness and choke... and it ran good as long as the rpms were up. Then you shut her off and I'm guessing fouled the plugs in the process... especially if the car wasn't fully warm.


First make sure all your ignition parts are getting good contact and the battery had a decent charge...
Then check your plugs... I like Bosch +4's cause the handle the richness well even on a weak stock coil.

Richness is to be expected in the winter... it's simply because the fuel and air is so cold the fuel doesn't suck into the motor as vapor it flows into the motor as dribble.

The throttle stop screw should be left alone, assuming it was set right in the summer.

[keruhas184]

^ You're probably right about the plugs. I'm running efi NGK Iridiums which are a stage colder for the carb. I'll def. check the plugs and will buy the correct ones this time.

Well, it started with half a turn today. The idle shot up again and was sticky for 5 min, but then it worked fine. I don't know whats up but I'm definitely going to check the carb, dizzy, plugs, change coolant, and insulate all the electrical connections better.

[keruhas184]

You were right, Mike. Well at least one problem is solved... now if I get free time to fix the carb...

[A20A1]

Hey I notticed you index you plugs.
or at least thats what I assume the red mark is for

[keruhas184]

Yeah, I tried indexing them. Although most people say it makes no difference at all.

[keruhas184]

Alright, first of all, after changing the plugs now it stalls out after warming up instead of revving like crazy. I think that's because my mixture isn't as rich now with the hotter spark.

But on the advice of '89AccordLX(Rus), I sorta ziptied the choke flap to stay open and voila most problems are gone. The carb works much better now, but still stalls out once in a while after revving high... I think that may be either the throttle cable or the throttle controller.

BTW, now I want to get rid of the choke flap and all that choke valve sh!t. When I remove the choke opener with the choke flap, do I need to plug any lines? After looking through the manual, I think throttle control valve or the cranking opener selenoid valve are the culprits for my bad idle... But I can't get rid of them, can I? What lines would I plug when removing fast idle unloader? And after I chuck the AC valve with selenoid, I just plug the ports to where they were connected? By doing all that removal and leaving the black box alone I can still pass emissions, correct? Thanks

[A20A1]

you can pass emissions but you have to get your car fully warm before going so the choke wont need to be on... don't let them cool your car off either.

[keruhas184]

^ Right, that's what I figured. So, is idle diaphragm removable? Are there any funky vac line re-routing I should be doing with removing idle unloader, (throttle controller), choke, ac stuff and cruise? Or do I just plug the ports?

[A20A1]

well if you want to remove the choke:

first disconnect the electrical wire

then disconnect the linkage that connects the choke flap to the rest of the choke linkage... and also I thing you can disconnect the choke puller as well

then unbolt the 2 visable screws holding the choke housing to the carb

Now it should be safe to snap the choke body off of the carb body... to get the last (3rd) screw off... it's a safe method and keeps you from dissasembling the choke body.

just be careflu how you pry the choke housing from the carb. If you look closely you can usually see where the 3rd screw is and where you need to add leverage to break it off good.

use a flat head screw driver... stick the tip down near the base of the carb and use the shaft to push the choke body away from the carb... be careful not to damage anything... since you may want to reinstall it later...

wear gloves so you don't tear your hand up when the choke gives.

[A20A1]

^ Right, that's what I figured. So, is idle diaphragm removable? Are there any funky vac line re-routing I should be doing with removing idle unloader, (throttle controller), choke, ac stuff and cruise? Or do I just plug the ports?

if you remove the Idle diaphragm AKA Throttle contorller... you'll need to remove the linkage that connects it too the carb
Why are you removing the idle diaphragm?

when you remove a component you need to check to make sure nothing else needs the vacuum going to it.

you plug all ports on the hard metal vacuum lines and on the carburetor.

however there is nothing on the carb that needs plugging with the things you are removing.

the choke puller is the only tricky part in that it has an internal vacuum port so either you plug the port with something permanent or you'll have to keep the choke puller in it's place and just plug both vacuum lines on it.


no funky vacuum routing required... just make sure you plug the ports... and also you'll need to make some minor adjustments to the throttle stop screw... only adjust it when the car is fully warm.