removing black box - 85 accord -

[A20A1]

The idle speed and smoke... First two important questions
Is this before durring or after warm up?
is the choke open or closed?



Does the car idle okay or sputter?

If or when the car is fully warm does the up and down idle go away?

did you try removing the #19 manifold vacuum.
Also try adjusting the idle once the car has fully warmed up...


my internet keeps booting me...



If the surging still doesn't go away when the car is fully warm reconnect #19 to manifold and use the thorttle stop screw to set the idle and disconnect #6. make sure you plug #6 where it connects to manifold vacuum. the throttle stop screw is the big black screw at the back or front of the carb, you can usually turn it by hand...

Warm up the car fully, If you have an automatic you Set the thorttle stop screw slightly above 1,000 rpm so that when you put the car in gear the idle drops to 1,000 rpm. If you have a manual car try and keep the rpm's about the same 1,000 rpm idle but lower it if the idle is too high when in neutral... too high meaning 1,300... try and get it to idle nice and still be about 1,100 in neutral.



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If you have trouble with the choke not opening fully once the car has warmed and you feel like the choke is still choking your motor... up you can try to use a metal wire to pull open the choke plate and hold it open... careful that you only affect the choke plate and not the throttle linkages... open the chokle and run the wire as shown in the image below.

readjust idle speed as nessecary... remember only hold the choke open if it's doesn't open by itself after the carb is fully warm. make sure you lower the idle if ide is too high.

[A20A1]

Go back one page to Read my previous post if this post causes this thread to make another page...

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The black smoke can be from an overly rich mixture or from the carb choke being partly closed or mostly closed... the choke is used to richen the mixture when the car is cold by restricting how much air can enter the carb.

Let me know if the smoke stops when the car is fully warm...

I'm going to bed now... sorry for the delay in the reply... I'l check this thread while I'm at school tomorrow.

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Oh I forgot that your idle diaphragm doesn't have an adjustment screw... only a metal tab that you bend.

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If you still get lots of black smoke... try and remove #14 temporarily and see if the black smoke goes away or gets worse... if it gets worse then reconnect #14.

Can you circle in the picture of the black box you sent me... what the #14 was connected to. If it's just a solenoid with 2 ports then never mind but if it has more then two ports let me know.


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[Coy]

its not black smoke, its grey.

ill have to check the choke when i get home tonight. i went to the store last night, and when i went back home the idle seemed to stabilize. the idle thing isnt realy a surge, it moves at a very steady pace. it does drop slowly and go back up faster, but at a slow pace. it does it wether warm or cold. the fast idle has always been kinda weird on the car.

the most important thing is the smoke, cause its irritating. like i said the idle isnt bad and i think it may have stabilized itself. im thinking fast idle isnt kickin in right now, which i dont see as a problem.

let me see if i get this right:fast idle is supposed to idle somewhat high, then when warmed up it drops down. to get the car to warmup faster

[A20A1]

yeah...

grey smoke... well not quite white not quite black... maybe coolant or oil, or just poor combustion... it smokes all the time then?

athough oil sometimes is more blue... there isn't a coolant port on the manifold is there that leads into the carb?

[Coy]

well the smoke has subsided, from what i can tell when its warm it seems to not smoke. i dont know if its just in my head, but the acceleration/throttle response seems to have gotten better.
#19 is not connected to manifold vacuum. i havent tried to mess with #14 yet. the idle is not doing anything out of the ordinary, but when i get to higway speeds or floor it at higher speeds the car shimmeys. i dont know if its doing that from something we did, or motor mounts. my upper motor mount (the one on the passenger side, next to the carb) seems loose as hell.

what would this coolant port on the carb look like?

heres a pic of where #14 went to yellow is what it connects to or the line itself, red is not #14 its #20

[Coy]

WTF is this thing? im thinking something to do with cruise. it had vacuum lines attached and theres wires going to it.
the yellow is a line that goes to the frame rail, and the red is a cable similar to the throttle cable. what is this thing exactly and can it be disconnected/removed?

i made two posts, the other has the answers to your questions and such...

[A20A1]

That is the cruize controll diaphragm... the red line is what controlls the thorttle... the yellow line is for the vacuum signal... not sure if it's function is to contorl the speed or not. There is usually a vacuum holding canister and a check valve associated with cruize control.

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Oh so # 20 supplies # 14 with vacuum... did you say that you had an 85 service manual or was that someone else...

I wanted to look up the function of the " SHOT AIR VALVE CONTROL SOLENOID " since it's connected to line #20
or more important... the " SHOT AIR VALVE " since it appears that #14 is not entirely a " POWER VALVE " because on the 3G #14 goes to the " POWER VAVLE " Your's might have some control over the 3rd barrel... that can complicate things... but I assume it's load dependent... a drop in vacuum will begin to open it... and at wide open throttle vacuum is " 0 " so it would open fully.

[Coy]

the cruise control diaphram is not connected to the carb now, it can be removed right?

you lost me ont eh third barrel control thing. i get eh activation part but thats about it.

[A20A1]

you have 3barrels... one is that tiny hole boardering the secondary barrel which is the barrel without the choke on it.

you can remove the cruise control... go inside the car first and unbolt the parts on the gas pedal that belong to the cruise control cable... only keep what you need to use the regular accel carb to the carb.

[Coy]

i knew it was a 3Bbl, you just kinda lost me on how it works. :-)

ok, im gunna remove that cruise shit since i guess it doesnt work now anyways.

still yet to check the #14. im off work tomorow and plan on poppin the hood for a bit, ill get it then

[A20A1]

well don't bother with #14 if the car has stopped smoking.... I only suggested removing it in case #14 was a powervalve that could be stuck open or it opens under vacuum instead of with the absence of vacuum.

It would be neat to see though how the 3rd barrel is wired so to speak. cause without a cut away view of the carb I can only guess how it works?

[Coy]

if i dissasembled the spare carb and took some pics is there any possibility i could cause any problems? by problems i mean: mess up anything or make it harder to be rebuilt for the guy im gunna have rebuild it

why take pics? since i dont know how to do a cutaway without thrashing the whole thing you could see inside of it.

i thank you more than you know for all the help youve given me and i hope that i havent gotten on your nerves with my somewhat pushyness

[Coy]

BTW, i was lookin at part numbers for oil pans and the gasket and from the 3g the ES2 uses the same gasket and theres only one number difference from the part numbers on the pan itself. its like 108a and 108b. the a and b are the only difference in the pan but the actuall number i dont remember right off hand. i noticed visually they have the same dimensions the only thing is the 3g pan has a little spout thing that mine doesnt, but as far as the pipe from the cat to the manifold they are totally different numbers, and no visual representation. mine uses the same exhaust manifold gasket for the block side. ill prolly take a look at both manifolds but not while in a car.

[hootymo]

i am interested in doing the black box removal, but i want to keep my cruise. is this possible?

[Coy]

very posible, but this perticular black box removal stuffs wont work on your 87.

85 is a 2g accord, and 87 is a 3g accord lots of similarities but not completely the same.

[hootymo]

very posible, but this perticular black box removal stuffs wont work on your 87.

85 is a 2g accord, and 87 is a 3g accord lots of similarities but not completely the same.

was this to my cruise control post or to the previous post?

[A20A1]

Hmm cruise control may require things that are removed durring the 1986-1989 accord vacuum removal.

I'm not entirely sure how to keep it... I beleive the A/C and Cruise control are independent from the Black Box... So removing the box itself and plugging the vacuum ports shouldn't be a problem.

If it needs constant vacuum the constant vacuum valve is inside the black box...

If it only needs manifold vacuum then tap the control vacuum line(s) from the cruise control to the manifold vacuum.

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067

That is how to remove the vacuum lines on the 3G... I don't se why cruize is that important... in any case i don't have the parts or the time to try and get it to work, others have tried it with minimal to no results... you may have to experiment on your own.

[hootymo]

see i dont need cruise that bad, i just like to use it a lot. now i am becoming a bit more accustomed to the carb but im still having a little trouble understanding the diagram. not sure what its telling me, any assistance would be cool, otherwise i am not sure i want to do it.