Carb problems ( Dies after start ) Check Distributor Cap / Rotor

**NeoCloud** · 11-30-2004, 09:14 AM

I also have some carb adjustment probs whenever u guys can get back to me.The screws for throttle and air fuel mixture(sry named it wrong this should be the ac/idle boost and the idle controller and the throttle stop screws I meant) are rusted and stuck a little,but I need to know how far away the screws end is supposed to be from the bracket/lever/plate,mainly the air/fuel screw,I know how to adjust the throttle screw,but the air fuel screw is not really doing anything cause the screw end isnt even near the lever plate,is this normal considering i can smell gas,and am burning rich i think.?Also I just now noticed that the battery light lights when i try to start the car,but only if I try to gas it a little,if I dont gas it,the light goes off,slowly and dimmy.By the way its the 88 Accord DX Hatchback,and its worth saving to me.lol.(from previuos post)I have adjusted everything once again,the problem lies after putting the air tray and the vacuum lines back on,the car idles differently after that,and its all most impossible to get to the air/fuel screw when it is on the carb.I tryed adjusting throttle stop to compensate,but it chugs if I idle it too high after putting the tray and lines on,I think it has something to do with the other screw,the air/fuel adjustment screw or whatever u guys call it,lol.HELP PLEASE.

**88Accord-DX** · 11-30-2004, 09:31 AM

I re-build the carbs quite often & generally set it as follows. I screw it (air/ fuel mixture screw) all the way in untill it stops ( don't tighten to tight), then I back it up 2 complete turns. I then do some final adjustments if needed.

I don't have much time right now, sure later on A20A1 guy will help you out more.

**POS carb** · 11-30-2004, 10:29 AM

the carb is supposed to have a cover on the mixture screw from the factory, It might still be in there. Get a small mirror and check, you should see a small flathead screw in there next to the coolant line

**NeoCloud** · 11-30-2004, 12:21 PM

Now I have a new problem,though it might still pertain to carb adjustments.The motor only starts when cold,when I let it sit and run for 5 minutes or less it shuts off and if I start it again it shudders,sputters and studders(lol).I think this might have to do with the air fuel screw again,but just to make sure I was gonna ask u guys if there is any sensors or anything of that sort that might also be the problem.Also I wanted to add that there is 6 vacuum lines that connect to the air tray,am I right?(plus the sensor that connects on the tray)and could the sensor there be any trouble.My choke flap in the carb is all the way open at idle also,I dont know if this is normal.My Idle goes up and down alot after idling for 5 minutes,I got it running a little longer than 5 minutes now by adjusting the throttle stop and idle screws,it seemed to have worked for now,but im afraid it will shut off again,it is idling right now,and has been for 10 minutes,with occasional sputters,which makes me think its a fuel line or filter problem,but just to make sure please answer any of my questions or all above,thanks.

**88Accord-DX** · 11-30-2004, 01:20 PM

The Air/Fuel mixture screw is supposed to have a tab on it to keep people from messing with the factory settings. The re-build kit says count the turns on it before removing. The 2 turns back is a general setting. You could back it out a little more if needed. The throttle plate should have a slight opening when NOT running, (about 2 millimeters) I'm not exactly sure what it looks like running at this moment. There could be some issues to where you need to re-build your carburetor. There are some How-To's on here. Look into fuel pump and filter too.

**NeoCloud** · 11-30-2004, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by ddude2uc

The Air/Fuel mixture screw is supposed to have a tab on it to keep people from messing with the factory settings. The re-build kit says count the turns on it before removing. The 2 turns back is a general setting. You could back it out a little more if needed. The throttle plate should have a slight opening when NOT running, (about 2 millimeters) I'm not exactly sure what it looks like running at this moment. There could be some issues to where you need to re-build your carburetor. There are some How-To's on here. Look into fuel pump and filter too.

thanks dude.

***A20A1*** · 11-30-2004, 08:43 PM

From how it sounds are you sure you are adjusting the Air fuel mixture screw?

It sounds like you are confusing the AIR FUEL SCREW with the IDLE CONTROLLER SCREW.

The air fuel screw is at the back of the carburetor inside the base of the carburetor.

The idle controller is on the front left side of the carb and the ac/idle boost is on the right rear of the carb and the Throttle stop screw is at the left rear of the carb.

you cannot see the air fuel mixture screw with the carb installed... you'd need a mirror. It's my thought that you shouldn't mess with it at all unless you know what youare doing.

looks like I'm going to have to post pics...

**NeoCloud** · 12-01-2004, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by A20A1

From how it sounds are you sure you are adjusting the Air fuel mixture screw?

It sounds like you are confusing the AIR FUEL SCREW with the IDLE CONTROLLER SCREW.

The air fuel screw is at the back of the carburetor inside the base of the carburetor.

The idle controller is on the front left side of the carb and the ac/idle boost is on the right rear of the carb and the Throttle stop screw is at the left rear of the carb.

you cannot see the air fuel mixture screw with the carb installed... you'd need a mirror. It's my thought that you shouldn't mess with it at all unless you know what youare doing.

looks like I'm going to have to post pics...

Taking pics of what went wrong now,and no I wasnt confused about the air/fuel,but I just got the names mixed up with everything ive been doing(I havent touched that one yet) in theses pics im taking with my really crappy digi cam(hopefully they arent to small to see)There are two screws that are the most noticeable on the left and right side,the one on the left is the idle controller,I know that,but im confused of the right side screw that looks identical(they both have screw-head sheilds)to the idle controller,if its not throttle stopthen its probably the a/c boost,it might be the spring wearing out on it or something of that matter,but it doesnt exactly stay in place while revving,it is extremely loose,even before I touched anything.The whole story goes one day my car got hot and shut off.I checked all fluids,checked if fan kicks on,and changed the filter.It still did it even after letting it idle in the driveway for 5 minutes.And it was also chugging like a diesel now for some reason.I have never took off the bottom half of the air tray(on this accord)yet,but the top half to change the filter.I took off the bottom half to get to the idle controller(yes I know u can get to it now without having to take it off)I adjusted the idle up a little and the chugging stopped a little(it was low rev at idle anyway,about 900rpm)and put the tray back on.As soon as I put the tray on it shuts off.Then I adjust the other screw just a freakin tweak and I notice it is loose.It ran for 10 minutes then shut off again.It could have something to do with running it completely out of gas,and it might have sucked up the crap out of the bottom of the tank.I dunno why I cant post attachments,my images arent workin,im trying to fix it.....im putting one in my avatar for now,my cam software is different and a different format or something,I forgot how to put images in here,lol.UPDATE:just noticed my power steering overflowing at the cap,lemme know if you think this might be a related problem to everything else,it is boiling liquid when it comes out,and I never overfilled it,I only added some about a month ago,makes me think there is a clog in the system,overheating a sensor or something,and shutting off the motor,but then I dont think that would do it either.

**88Accord-DX** · 12-01-2004, 10:56 AM

That yellow screw adjust the float bowl. It has yellow paint on it from the factory. If the paint is chipped and what not, then you can tell if someone has messed with it.

**NeoCloud** · 12-01-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by ddude2uc

That yellow screw adjust the float bowl. It has yellow paint on it from the factory. If the paint is chipped and what not, then you can tell if someone has messed with it.

whats it supposed to be set at,do u know?the paint was allready chipped when I first seen it.This next avatar(untill I can get my photos to upload)photo is of the screw if you are standing on the driver side,on the right side of the carb,and from what A20 said,it would be the a/c idle boost if I am guessing right.

**88Accord-DX** · 12-01-2004, 01:22 PM

There is a sight glass on the side of the carburetor, the gas should be about half way up on the glass. You can adjust the float bowl while the car is running, (so you can get the gas level where you need it to be) that is the only way you can adjust it without taking the top off the carb. I can't see where that screw is. A20A1 could give you more accurate name. I got to go to school at the moment.

***A20A1*** · 12-01-2004, 03:50 PM

Yeah thats the a/C idle boost screw... you adjust that screw after you've set all the others... its supposed to be adjusted when the car is at idle and you turn on the A/C

it basicly bumps up the rpm a little to make up for the drop when the A/C is on.

The main idle is set by the idle controller on the left... but before you set that you should set the throttle stop screw so that you have the best possible low idle speed... usually 800 - 900 rpm ( Automatic )

Make sure all the other screw aren't engaging the throttle or the throttle stop screw wont have an effect.

Also do all your screw adjustments when the car is fully warm.

**NeoCloud** · 12-02-2004, 04:57 AM

Thanks A20 and dude for the info,I still cant get it running for more than 5 minutes,and I know it is burning rich now after carefull observation of the float bowl glass yesterday.I have a manual,is that the same idle rpm(900)I should set it at,cause I dont have an auto.Also I dont use the a/c anyway b/c there are no lines going to the a/c,lol.So what do I do about the a/c screw....whenever u get back to me.(god I wish I didnt have to wait 24 hrs for an answer,as I gotta go catch the bus,lol).Sry if this is becoming a long thread,and/or if you guys are tired of teaching me how-to,I thought it was going to be easier than this,but this car really hates me for some reason.You can tell some1 has beaten the crap out of the motor in its previuos lifetime,and I might think about a complete engine swap or just an efi conversion kit,but will continue fixing this carb untill I get more money so I get a good motor and/or a good efi kit.But Im not giving up hope yet,it still runs good before it shuts off,it revs up from 1,000rpm to 3-4,000rpmgradually and slowly untill it is fully warm,allthough if u hit the gas it drops the needle back down b4 it is warm.When it shuts off,the carb spits out like a train blowing out the air brakes.I have pics of all sides of the carb as I have bent myself into a pretzel trying to get under the hood,lol.update:I looked through the sight glass and allthough I fixed the float bowl screw to halfway,the car still shuts off after five minutes of warming up.I can still smell alot of gas,so when I get time later I'm gonna take all the fuel filters off,I just need help finding the one in the back of the car,I thinks its on the driver side right in front of the tank,I found the one under the hood,and was wondering which filter is the best to buy for this car and to prepare for any mods im gonna make.The idle just drops unexpectically after it revs itself up to warm up after starting.I noticed the fans kick on right when it shuts off,after about the 3rd time of starting it and letting it shut off.

**NeoCloud** · 12-02-2004, 06:56 AM

it's a thermo valve or thermowax valve... usually the valve will close or open depending on the temperature of the coolant... I'm guessing that when the valve is open the car operates cold start and raises the idle. So when you closed the valve manually the idle dropped as if the engine had warmed up. It really depends on the operation of the valve though... some simply bleed vacuum while others direct vacuum somewhere for a specific use at certain coolant temps.(came from u A20)
I think this could be my problem, or one of them.

**NeoCloud** · 12-02-2004, 07:48 AM

A new fuel pump and pressure regulator is a must for these carbs. I would reccomend bypassing the first filter and getting an upgraded --edit-- fram --edit-- fuel filter for under the hood. They make a nice big filter that will outdo the stock ones.(came from performance upgrades in carb tech thread/post by K-Roy)
I dont know if I can use this filter,tell me if it wont hurt or give too much fuel or something,please,thanks

**DanG86LX** · 12-02-2004, 09:55 PM

Ur engine shutting off after 5min warmup or when fast idle coming off maybe due to:
1. a massive vacuum leak.
Taking air box off is no big deal and should be taken off every time u work on carb. But there is a vacuum line #8 which is coming off with the air box. #8 comes from intake manifold vacuum port and it should be plugged, otherwise u get that massive vacuum leak. Also when u put air box back, make sure u plug #8 back on. If u already done so then check for some other vacuum leaks, should be an obvious one!

2. blocked carb idle passages.
When that happen, ppl tend to adjust stop screw in till they get "some idle" as crappy as might be..
Thing is throttle gets opened too much and engine sucks gas from venturi instead of idle nozzle (under throttle) and transition ports (4 little staggered holes).
Cleaning idle passages means taking carb top off, idle jet off, spaying all those little passages...

**NeoCloud** · 12-04-2004, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by DanG86LX

Ur engine shutting off after 5min warmup or when fast idle coming off maybe due to:
1. a massive vacuum leak.
Taking air box off is no big deal and should be taken off every time u work on carb. But there is a vacuum line #8 which is coming off with the air box. #8 comes from intake manifold vacuum port and it should be plugged, otherwise u get that massive vacuum leak. Also when u put air box back, make sure u plug #8 back on. If u already done so then check for some other vacuum leaks, should be an obvious one!

2. blocked carb idle passages.
When that happen, ppl tend to adjust stop screw in till they get "some idle" as crappy as might be..
Thing is throttle gets opened too much and engine sucks gas from venturi instead of idle nozzle (under throttle) and transition ports (4 little staggered holes).
Cleaning idle passages means taking carb top off, idle jet off, spaying all those little passages...

One of my friends dads suggested taking the fuel pump and all the fuel lines off and replacing them due to cracking and heat wear,because he said the fuel lines might be weak enough to close up after the car gets hot,due to the inner walls of the line being weak and cracked.Also im gonna use that big ass fram fuel filter in performance parts thread,and replace the other filter too.My other question :is there more than two filters?,I know about the one under the hood and the one all the way under the car near the tank.I dont think this is gonna fix my problem because you can still see gas in the carb when it shuts off through the sight glass near the float bowl.Maybe its filling back up so fast after it shuts off I dont notice,or there isnt enough pressure or something,but replacing everything is the only way to know for sure.Also,air tray on or off,its the same,it shuts off the same and idles the same,and no,I checked every single vacuum line like 50 times,so I'm pretty sure its not that and #8 is always put on,but not plugged,cause I usually put the tray back on before I start it.I have sprayed every single port in the carb with carb cleaner with the carb top on,I'm afraid to take it off,cause the seal will need to be replaced,allthough it is still intact untill it comes off.If what I'm about to do doesnt work,I will take the carb off and either clean the crap out of it,replace it with efi kit or get a holley and adapter plates and all that.I want to save this car,it ran sooooo awesome for about two months,I could chirp 2nd on a hot day on dry ass pavement,and get to 70 in third in no time.I dont know who had this car b4 me,but they painted the valve cover with pearl purple-pink mica,which makes me think there is something in there like a cam or something,but the rest of the car is falling apart,so I guess you really wouldnt be able to tell how fast it really is untill you fix everything else.I know I raced my freinds lxi stock pos(he doesnt take care of it or change his oil or anything,but it is still fast enough to compare)and tore his ass up by at least 10 cars,lol.So I hope there is hope(uhh)...for my car after I frankenstein it,lol.update:thanks paul and everyone for the pdf shop manual,it has helped me find alot of things that are covered in so much crap you couldnt tell where the seals meet on the rear drum cylinder and the backing plate,you also couldnt see the/and through the sight glass on the carb,the bracket on top of the transmission that the negative ground for the battery goes to was sooo covered in crap the screw-hole was closed and I had to look on the manual on the comp to see where it was and shoved a screwdriver through it,lmfao.I am now looking through the rest of it,eliminating everything one by one.I know how to post pics,I didnt have my freinds website/server info I needed,Im getting that now,the pic in my avatar is my venturi in the forward chamber.

***A20A1*** · 12-04-2004, 09:31 PM

The float bowl will usually have gas in it when you shut the car off... if it were to drain that quickly after you shut the car off it would mean something was horribly wrong.

I would replace those battery connections.

#8 needs to be plugged if you run without the air box... I have a thread that tells you how to run the car without the air box so you can tune it.
https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38108

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**88Accord-DX** · 12-05-2004, 03:55 AM

I'm going to chill on this thread and let the carburetor gurus handle it.

**NeoCloud** · 12-05-2004, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by A20A1

The float bowl will usually have gas in it when you shut the car off... if it were to drain that quickly after you shut the car off it would mean something was horribly wrong.

I would replace those battery connections.

#8 needs to be plugged if you run without the air box... I have a thread that tells you how to run the car without the air box so you can tune it.
https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38108

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The car shuts off by itself with gas in the float bowl window on the side of the carb,with air tray on or off.Also I just talked to a mechanic buddy of mine that said my thermovalve/and or the thermostat near the header where the top radiator hose goes into the block,the whole thermostat and/or the thermovalve body around the outside is rusted and possibly defective by now.Is there really a thermostat inside of the body I'm not seeing,and what is the thermovavle for?

***A20A1*** · 12-05-2004, 01:19 PM

The thermostat looks like a UFO... or one of those spin tops.

anyways. the thermovalve controls vacuum based on coolant temp. There are three thermovalves... one is for choke and the other is for vacuum advance and the last is for the vacuum secondary... I could be wrong though... it's been a while since I've had any thermovalves on my car.

If you don't have coolant or not enough... or if coolant isn't flowing correctly then the thermovalves can't fuction properly.

the thermostat body doesn't rust... it's aluminum.

when you removed the air tray did you plug the vacuum lines first before running the car?

also don't adjust the float screw or it could leak.

If you nottice a heavy gas smell check the position of the choke is it open or closed... make sure you haven't pressed the pedal too many times because everytime you press the pedal a squirt of gas goes into the carb.

make sure you have good electrical connections... there is a solenoid at the back of the carb that needs to be connected to the black wire or your carb wont idle.

also you need to have both ground wires connected to run the car... the first ground wire comes up from the the wire harness near the trans and connects to the thermostat housing. The next groung wire goes from the valve cover to the radiator support near the driversside headlight.

**NeoCloud** · 12-05-2004, 02:39 PM

The first time I ran the car with no plugs,then after that I did plug #8 and #33.Maybe the other steel parts around the outside casing(body or whatever)that holds the thermovalve and thermostat near the left/front side of the block could have caused the little bit of powdered rust on top of it,but the whole thing is white powdered,and gets extremley hot after the car warms up,then about 2-3 minutes later it shuts off.Can U please post a pic of where exactly the thermostat is?,cause I got three different mechanics telling me two different things,one says its on the outside,the other two say there is one inside the under or near thermovalve C(I think thats it).The overfill tank is to the max line,and the radiator is full too,not too full.I adjusted the float screw to halfway with a certified mechanic to make sure it was legit,he said it was under a little,but not off enough to matter about the car shutting off.He is the one mechanic saying the thermostat should be on the outside on top of something.I have printed almost the whole manual,including component locations(12-96)(also where I got thermovalve C from), but cannot find it.I checked the solenoid near the back of the carb,its fine.The choke is closed when cold start,opens as heating up,and stays open when the car shuts off as long as it is hot.Even when the car is off the choke eventually closes,or when I go to start it when its cold again or had been letting it sit for 5-10 minutes it is closed.What do you do with the vacuum lines #17(I think #17 is ok to leave open)and#28 on thermovalve C after you route the line on the carb to the secondary diaphragm,plug #28 and dont worry about #17?or just put both connectors together on thermovalve C using tubing?I have sanded down all the brackets and mounting points for the negative wire,and reconnected,but the internal wiring in the dash is melted,twisted and fried from someone else who had it,probably from trying to put a deck in it,but my battery light has stopped blinking so far,and the car cranks like the battery is from heaven(lol).I noticed the carb sputtering out gas when the car shuts off sometimes,followed by clunking like its still trying to run and the it shuts off after about 6 clunks.The choke is fully open when it gets to normal temperature and when it shuts off.I just dont understand why it runs sooo good when its warming up,and then unexpectatley shuts off with no signs of why.

**NeoCloud** · 12-05-2004, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by DanG86LX

2. blocked carb idle passages.
When that happen, ppl tend to adjust stop screw in till they get "some idle" as crappy as might be..
Thing is throttle gets opened too much and engine sucks gas from venturi instead of idle nozzle (under throttle) and transition ports (4 little staggered holes).
Cleaning idle passages means taking carb top off, idle jet off, spaying all those little passages...

This sounds relevant other than the fact that I see the gas coming from a hole in the back wall of the chamber up near where the top-hat seal is(nozzle?),I need to know about how much the throttle stop knob is supposed to be set at,but I cant tell cause the car shuts off right when it gets to normal temp.

***A20A1*** · 12-05-2004, 09:34 PM

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=30272
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**DanG86LX** · 12-05-2004, 09:51 PM

.. I see the gas coming from a hole in the back wall of the chamber up near where the top-hat seal is..

No thats not idle nozzle, thats accelerator pump nozzle. Gas is not supposed to come from there at idle or high idle, unless someone is kicking gas pedal!

The idle nozzle is under the throttle and bypass port (4 holes) right where the throttle closes. Hope the pic will come up:

..at idle vacuum from under throttle sucks air/fuel mixture from idle nozzle, vertical passage, flow control jet, flow control tube, slow fuel meter jet, passage to main jet inlet.
When i had same prob as yours, the passage @ "slow fuel meter jet" was blocked, but it could be anywhere..
BTW if u have air jet controller, unplug and plug the ports @ carb. I dont have it.