No, I am saying cant. You cannot make 250hp from a 1.8 liter engine with a redlin of 8.1k rpms.Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord
No, I am saying cant. You cannot make 250hp from a 1.8 liter engine with a redlin of 8.1k rpms.
would be hard i reckon too, but personally if on a all out budget K20A kicks arese 86x86 bore stroke ratio, also means you can fit some seriously large inlet valves 35-37mm and thats what gets you the power, unfotunately B16/B18 combo still stuck with max bore of 82mm max valve size would be 33mm maybe 34mm at a push. Their good engines but they've had their day, i'm sticking with my A20 good torque and not that heavy, less frictional losses due to simpler drivetrain.
Next Car/project is Ariel Atom weighs 500kg has race built and designed suspension and also comes equipped with Honda K20A in 160bhp type S spec 220bhp Type R spec and Jackson racing tuned package with 300bhp and a big fat supercharger give over 600bhp per ton power to weight ratio and all this on a car that comes all in at £30K the 160bhp one is £20K new as well!! I'll get a ex race series one with a shagged engine and start from their!! Need to find a garage first as it has no roof!! and my other two Hondas need saving from the water too!! Oh it's also faster than most bikes and not that much slower than a ferrari enzo round a track!! and howmuch does that cost!!
When you say port out the guide... you mean remove what hangs into the port?
Feel free to hack up my image of a rusty head.
Honestly I'd be afraid to remove material from there but if it doesn't cause any mechanical issues I'll do it.
Last edited by A20A1; 01-15-2005 at 03:10 PM.
- llia
This needs to be a sticky arcived or something. This is what we are talknig about and buddy your doing it.
I would resaerch the total seal rings in the end I never here anything good on them but what they tell you. I think with short ring lands they flutter bad at high RPM.
I kinda figured that our block could goto 83mm thats a pretty standard size I believe.
Maybe you could share some head flow numbers and stuff so the rest of the peanut gallery can learn something.
Also maybe you could provide a price list for us dreamers out here to think about.
Again thanks for writing that down.
wp
All in good time, all in good time.
- llia
cost wasn't that bad.
The guides cost me about £50 to re-size
Re-cut valve seats about £50 3 angle and i then radiused the edges myself
Exhaust valves re-machined/reprofiled £10 each X 8 +£80 new custom ones about £25 each X 8 £200
Cam re-profile from pipercams (the god of camshafts) £180
head shaved £40
Did all the port work and chamber work myself.
Sorry haven't had time to get some accurate figures done, i use a home made flowbench with a powerfull vacuum hoover, a funnel, and a weber air flow meter, i measure everything from the end of the inlet manifold to get more real world figures and also modding the inlet manifold makes a huge difference especially if it's a long runner, i use this cheap setup mainly so that i can see what works and also to balance each port close together, i would love to be able to afford a flowmasters bench but would rather spend it on engine parts or machining work!! All i can say is that it's very high well over 170cfm but more importantly flow isn't everything, with my new cam design i've been working on for the A18 and it's unusual inlet port layout i've managed to gain a huge amount of extra swirl and tumble so that the air and fuel really mix it up big style when entering the cylinder, this itself is giving me huge torque and power gains. I reckon that with the new cam, new designed exhaust system and header this engine should be good for 220-230bhp easy i might even give it a try with forged pistons with a High CR ratio, as fortunately when i get the monster A20 going the A18 head will still fit, i think it would be an interesting comparison especially as it only takes me about 2 hours to swap heads!!
that's the one you got it, get rid of that, use grinding disc to get rid of the guide end and some of the material around it, then use a round grinding stone to make it circular and symetrical, done it on 3 heads now, plenty of material down their never had a problem, only one thing maybe change the exhuast guide to bronze after your done, will last longer, the cast iron guides on these don't seem to last very long when using upgraded camshafts seem to get badly worn after 20-30K bronze are more accurate, tighter tolerance, cool the valve better as well and you can run them without seals which will help make the valve and guide last longer as better lubed, yes you will burn a tiny bit more oil but hey at least you'll re-build your head less!!
Send us an e-mail to [email protected] i'll send you a pic of what it should look like,depending on your mods you should see at least 5bhp gain the more you have the more you gain!! Same goes for the inlet ports as well but the A20 head is a lot better shaped than A18 and ET so not so much of a worry.
p.s if you go to preludepower.com theirs a thread called rjudgey's vids theirs a link to some videos i took over Crimbo time, it shows may car pulling from 70-silly speeds going up mainly a load of hills!! and then down a couple!!
nope don't worry found it for ya you may need adsl or a lot of patience their not too big!!
http://myweb.cableone.net/wkathol/150mphprelude.zip
I'll get it at school... I have 56k at home actually more like 14k
Oh I sent you an e-mail... I'm also adding the link to the video thread in racing stories.
- llia
i'll send you a pic no exhaust valve pics on my cardomain site.
im glad to see the thread turn into something useful! thanks alot guys, ive taken all of this into consideration and as soon as i have a game plan ill post it here
I havent forgotten my roots
huh? where did i said that?
Chicane: i dont know what u searched for but if you typed in " jun yellow civic" the link i get is this http://fastpasses.com/exec.asp?Datab...93291359010237 save the video or what not and u will see it.
I gave the numbers what i saw on the video. So watch it and tell me if i am wrong,
rjudgey: Nice work man, i will keep ur work in mind defenitely. Awsome, get some pics up of ur work. I would love to see it
Hope we didnt scare you off.
I question your goal of 10:1 compression. Usually upping the compression 1 point might give you 3% power gain and there is a break over point of course. Our cars prolly are around 9.0-9.3 measured Honda usually keeps things colse to the specs.
Read up all you can. Ask questions. Pay attention to what other motor builders are doing even the Chevy guys. You can learn something.
wp
not done the maths yet to work it out, not a strong point of mine unfortunately, i just try it and see how it goes on the road and dyno, fortunately i have onbaord electronics that give me same reall handy data which i can download onto my P.C.
But at a guess i think that the CR ratio would be lucky to be at 9 i think it might even be high 8 which is probably why i'm getting really good torque, mind you good for turboing though!! Thought about using Honda pistons again but they just cost so much and they are heavier too, i could use lighter pins which would reduce the weight a little, i think the extra weight could be due to the thicker crown for the higher CR, the sealed power pistons have quite a deep dish in the crown, Head hasn't had much shaved off and the chambers have had a lot taken out, block has had a minimal skim nothing major, i think with a Higher CR it would definately gain alot more bhp considering it's allready pumping out 200bhp allready it's just going to amplify it even more. But more concerned about exhaust manifold and system, might even look into a side exit with single silencer, or straight down the middle out the back, not sure but definately need bigger pipes and a 2.5" main bore what ever happens!! I think if i want to increase rpm and increase the service life of the block, typically 15-20K using cast pistons i'm gonna have to use forged.
I got some pics from him.. I'll post them if it's okay with rjudgeyhuh? where did i said that?
Chicane
rjudgey: Nice work man, i will keep ur work in mind defenitely. Awsome, get some pics up of ur work. I would love to see it
- llia
The video is wrong. There is know possible way to make 250hp from 1.8 liters at only 8.1k rpms. It's impossible. If it was boosted or using nitrous then sure, but not NA.
MIke: That would be awsome.
lol
:alc:
Hey hey hey my spidey sense is going off.
Try and move this thread back to building 200hp NA with the A20... it doesn't matter if it's possible or not, every little bit of info helps.
We don't need to hear about JUN's numbers or hear the pitter patter of little MEP's running thru our thread.
Just suggestions on what is affordable and or makes good NA power for the A20.
- llia
What makes good NA power for the A20? Another A20 in the trunk. :P
Seriously though... MEP is handy for calculating expected output if you change the redline, stuff like that... it also helps you find out what the limits are. I think EFI with a nice free flowing exhaust will do the most. Aside from that, you're going to need to spend some bling with a headshop equipped witha flow bench.
or you could say fuck it and go turbo for more power without all the head work/cost
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
Undoubtedly the cheaper and easier alternative... but ... some people will do whatever they want to do anyway.it's their money...
pretty much. I personally dont like nitrous oxide because of refilling the bottle and i personally feel that its harder on parts than turbo. I like turbo over N/A because turbos build torque, and torque makes fun
429whp 362wtq A20 TURBO. A20T>*
well Turbo setup is good for drag racing or light racing on street, but on the track a turbo setup would give toomuch torquesteer and upset the balance of the car. Also more of a challenge building a N/A engine but i like building engines, turbo is easier, but the great thing about N/A is no turbo lag!!
May I post your pics rjudgey?
- llia
wait, correct me if im wrong but that civic your talking about might have a higher redline than 8.1k rpm.
it makes 257 HP @8,100 rpm but it might not redline at 8,100 thats just where it makes peak power. so the engine might accully redline at 8,500, 8,600 rpm? i dont know
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