Steering Rack - bad?

[vongiese]

Hi - I'm new to this forum and very glad to have found it. Been working on a friends 86 LX and my 89 Sei - fixing numerous oil leaks and general maintenance and repairs to keep them going. I also have a 88 civic - all three are over 250K miles.
In my 1989 SEI the steering has been a little "loose" since i bought the car a couple years ago -- slight wandering when going down the hwy. Alignment checked out OK. I jacked the car up and grab a tire at 3 and 9 o'clock and move back and forth and i can feel a slight play in the steering linkage. When doing this - power steering fluid would spew out the PS resevior fill hole!!! First couple times I moved the wheels back and forth - there was a clunking noise and a sloshing sound of fluid coming from steering the gear box.
Any chance to adjust out this "play"? Or is the writing on the wall and I should just replace the rack.
Any recommendation on good remanuf companies (or Bad ones that I should stay away from)?
Also -what is honda PS fluid - anyone know what it is? Plain old hydraulic fluid?
thanks

[Blkblurr]

I would check your tie rod ends first. That's most likely where your play is coming from. The fluid going back into your PS fluid reservoir is normal when you move the rack back and forth. I assume you have the cap off of it for it to spew all over. There really isn't much to go wrong in the rack to cause play in the wheels. You can have play in the steering column if the pinion valve and gear are worn bad enough. If your tie rods are loose I would not drive it until you get it fixed. Very dangerous. Check your upper and lower ball joints as well. By the way. Welcome to 3geez.

[vongiese]

I would check your tie rod ends first. That's most likely where your play is coming from. The fluid going back into your PS fluid reservoir is normal when you move the rack back and forth. I assume you have the cap off of it for it to spew all over. There really isn't much to go wrong in the rack to cause play in the wheels. You can have play in the steering column if the pinion valve and gear are worn bad enough. If your tie rods are loose I would not drive it until you get it fixed. Very dangerous. Check your upper and lower ball joints as well. By the way. Welcome to 3geez.

Blkblurr - The tie rod ends and ball joints and other FE components are all tight. I guess I'll have to look closer at the play being in the Column....new territory for me.

[Blkblurr]

it is possible to get play in your wheels if your rack and pinion gears are really bad. There is also a nut on the side of the rack that adjests the pressure against the rack. The nut has a spring between it and the rack guide. this is to adjust the pressure between the rack and the pinion gear. that may be loose or broken.

[BlueBead]

you'll probably want to change your sway bar bushings too.... they make a huge difference in handling on the road.. sort of off topic, but it helps alot

[Oldblueaccord]

I have some slop in mine too although everything feels tight. I looked in the book and have seen a u-joint that connects the steering shaft to the rack. I'm gonna try and see what I can do about this when I get a good chance. I m hoping its not my rack since like you too I can only find remans and I'm worried about quality.

I notice my steering"twitch" mostly at low speeds right at turn in like in parking lots or turning from a stop sign. It seemed to start after I went to 205/50/15 tires about himm maybe 3 year this spring. I did add in about -3 camber last summer but it didnt really help. I have thought about trying some caster adjustments too I'd like the steering to snap back to center a little quicker.

I use the bardalys Honda power steering fluid since i got my car with 70k on it. I hit 255k the other day no leaks.


wp

[IN_ONE_ACCORD]

I had very loose steering until I changed the upper control arms and tie rods. I had to
do this to get it aligned. Alignment won't take unless these parts are in good shape.
Also look at your strut & bushings, too much play there can cause vibration.
My power steering was leaking pretty bad and I used Lucas p/s leak stop. It's thick and red and works great. No leaks in over a week. Before you change the rack, try LUCAS.

[Oldblueaccord]

I had very loose steering until I changed the upper control arms and tie rods. I had to
do this to get it aligned. Alignment won't take unless these parts are in good shape.
Also look at your strut & bushings, too much play there can cause vibration.
My power steering was leaking pretty bad and I used Lucas p/s leak stop. It's thick and red and works great. No leaks in over a week. Before you change the rack, try LUCAS.

I changed both uper arms less then a year ago new bushings the whole nine yards. I had my alignment check a couple times I got that free lifetime deal.

Im gonna try the caster bit and then that U-joint if I can find it then the rack. There inner tierod ends but when I checked at Honda they didnt have any listed separte Ill check again.


wp

[AZmike]

I set my caster to maximum and really liked the change. Stronger self centering, better weighted steering and as a bonus you get a little bit of camber to help cornering as the wheels rotate on the kingpin axis as you steer.

[Oldblueaccord]

I set my caster to maximum and really liked the change. Stronger self centering, better weighted steering and as a bonus you get a little bit of camber to help cornering as the wheels rotate on the kingpin axis as you steer.

Did you adjust it with the strut rods? What were your measurements?

I got new bushing for them and I was gonna replace the bushings and fool with it some. That stupid Firestone guy didn't even want to mess with it. It blew his mind I had some negative camber set in cuz the specs call for zero.


My last set of tires,Falken Azenis sport wore great and so are these Kuhmos.

wp

[AZmike]

I set the caster by shortening the radius rods. The best we could do and keep the sides the same was 2.2 degrees. I get even wear with negative 0.6-0.7 degrees camber all around.

[vongiese]

you'll probably want to change your sway bar bushings too.... they make a huge difference in handling on the road.. sort of off topic, but it helps alot

After further checking - the steering seems tight - even tho there is a slight clicking when I rock the wheel back and forth (w/ hands at 3 and 9 o'clock). There is a slight bit of play in my lower ball joints - as seens with the help of a pry bar.
Looking at manual for replacing lower BJ's looks like a SOB! haudraulic press to remove rotor parts?
I definetaly get "wander" when holding the steering wheel straight when going down flat highway....and won't hold a radius on a curve.....

[danronian]

II assume you have the cap off of it for it to spew all over.

Not a huge point but even when I had the cap on, the fluid spewed everywhere when I turned the wheels with the car off and up in the air. I learned that I should always turn them with the steering wheel and then it won't happen, also never fill it up above the top line b/c the fluid will spew itself out if you do that (I figured that out when I added too much a few years ago).

[Oldblueaccord]

After further checking - the steering seems tight - even tho there is a slight clicking when I rock the wheel back and forth (w/ hands at 3 and 9 o'clock). There is a slight bit of play in my lower ball joints - as seens with the help of a pry bar.
Looking at manual for replacing lower BJ's looks like a SOB! haudraulic press to remove rotor parts?
I definetaly get "wander" when holding the steering wheel straight when going down flat highway....and won't hold a radius on a curve.....

Yeah the ball joint needs to be pressed out with a hydraulic press. You have to take the whole arm off. I dont think you can just beat it out but somebody that has might chime in.

Prolly the hardest might be taking off the large nut that holds the CV shaft into the hub. You really need a good air gun to get it off usually.


wp

[vongiese]

Yeah the ball joint needs to be pressed out with a hydraulic press. You have to take the whole arm off. I dont think you can just beat it out but somebody that has might chime in.

Prolly the hardest might be taking off the large nut that holds the CV shaft into the hub. You really need a good air gun to get it off usually.


wp

I was afraid the manual wasn't lying.... Looks like some serious front end work is in order. I might as well tear into it and do it right. After I got the strut out it's easier to ID where some of my "play" is. I have a loose upper BJ on driver's side, so i may as well replace both upper arms. And I'll be replacing the lower BJs once I get one of the thru bolts free - it's rusted on there - been spraying PBlaster on it for a couple days and puttin the air wrench to it...
The car is in excellent shape so it's worth the investment. I'll have to keep an eye on that rack....but I don't think that's my problem after all!!!!

[Oldblueaccord]

I was afraid the manual wasn't lying.... Looks like some serious front end work is in order. I might as well tear into it and do it right. After I got the strut out it's easier to ID where some of my "play" is. I have a loose upper BJ on driver's side, so i may as well replace both upper arms. And I'll be replacing the lower BJs once I get one of the thru bolts free - it's rusted on there - been spraying PBlaster on it for a couple days and puttin the air wrench to it...
The car is in excellent shape so it's worth the investment. I'll have to keep an eye on that rack....but I don't think that's my problem after all!!!!

Good work!!

Might haveta use heat on the rusted parts. Even a propane torch helps.


wp

[vongiese]

Yeah the ball joint needs to be pressed out with a hydraulic press. You have to take the whole arm off. I dont think you can just beat it out but somebody that has might chime in.

Prolly the hardest might be taking off the large nut that holds the CV shaft into the hub. You really need a good air gun to get it off usually.


wp

Well the toughest part was just getting the part to the machine shop so they could press out the hub and press in new wheel bearings and new lower ball joints. Haven;t picked it up yet so don;t know the damage ($) yet. I ordered my upper control arms and bushings, but wasn't aware that you should aslso replace the upper control arm collar too, so I went and ordered those today - another week of waiting for parts. I'm going to have $500 in this front end with shocks, upper arms one new wheel bearing, lower BJ's, rad rod bushings, swaybar bushings, shock bushings, break pads, alignment and probably a couple things of I forgot.....

[danronian]

Collar? I guess that means the bushings for the upper control arms. I replaced mine at 140K mi. when I replaced the control arms but the originals were so well lubricated that they weren't even worn. Since I got cheap upper arms my boots ripped in 20K mi. and now I have to replace them again. I am guessing getting 4 things pressed in will be about $40-$50, maybe less though.

[T-Funk]

i got lower ball joint out with a sledge while on the car
i was pounding on it for like an hour wondering why it wouldnt pop and then i noticed the circlip that was on there since 1989 covered in rust and generally looking exactly like it was part of the knuckle, had to use a hacksaw to cut through that cause it was so stuck, then sledge popped the ball joint in about 5 minutes

got the 32mm axle socket off with the end of a 2 foot gigantic wrench prying on a half inch ratchet in order to do so

[Blkblurr]

Easiest wiay to get the 32mm nut off for me was use a breaker bar and a four foot pipe. comes right off.

[theDougler]

well i almost have the same problem, my power steering rack is leaking called the shop its gonna cost 400+ for the power steering rack and 3.5hrs of labour total come to 740 plus tax